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Discussion Starter #1
i have 2 image dynamics ID MAX 12's...im putting 1000watts RMS to each via Hollywood Digital amplifiers (probably more like 700watts each...but it should be good enough) im building a ported enclosure that should be about 4-5 cu/ft and all fiberglass in the interest of space, weight, and looks. i chatted with a rep from Image Dynamics, and he said a good and common set up would be to fire the subs at the glass, and the port towards the rear of the car. with most of the enclosures i have used, firing towards the back of the car produced the most sound...i don't know if the SPL was higher, but it always seemed louder. i thought about firing them almost straight up, at the trunklid, but i'm not sure if i would get alot of cancellation.

i dunno though, i would like to get cranking on this box, but i really need to come up with a deign 1st....any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks
james
 

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IMO, angled at the glass, with the rear tray removed will give you the best SPL. If you are going for SQ though, face it at the rear of the car.
 

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do you want to hear the bass, or do you want other people to hear the bass? if you face them towards the front of the car, other people will hear it pretty loud, and it'll pretty much rattle the trunk, license plate, etc.

Mike
 

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Originally posted by: 99CouGSweetRide
do you want to hear the bass, or do you want other people to hear the bass? if you face them towards the front of the car, other people will hear it pretty loud, and it'll pretty much rattle the trunk, license plate, etc.

Mike
Can't say I have that problem at all. I've got it tuned pretty good so that it doesn't rattle the outside yet is very loud on the inside. But I'm sure the sub I have is accountable for that. It's a 10" Boston Acoustics Competitor in a Qlogic box...facing the rear of the car.
 

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I have a sealed box, but my subs point right at the glass and it's awsome. Ported, ewwwwwww
 

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can any of you give a reason to have a port facing any direction other than the direction the sub is firing?(other than a premade box from *place any audio store here*)
from anything i have ever heard, the port is there to augment the sub at the tuned frequency. meaning it will somewhat boost the output at that frequency.
putting it anywhere else on the box but the sub side would cause the port to be out of phase with the sub.also all the professional enclosures ive seen have the sub and the port on the same side of the enclosure reguardless what type of port,direction of fire,type of sub, etc....
im not looking to get flamed i would like reasonable explanations as to why you would put a port on any face of the box without being an enclosure engineer.
 

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heres my question, wy is this in vids/pics? lol.
 
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max sound quality will be achieved by facing them forward...
more output will be gained by facing them backwards-- it's called boundary loading.
basically the more times it can go back and forth before getting to your ear, the louder it is.
see also rear wave reinforcement :D

facing them backwards and putting them pretty close to the back of the trunk will get you the biggest output but it will be pretty retarded in terms of cargo capacity (read: null)

facing them up will not warrant you better results, all that will really do for you is introduce some cancellation (standing waves etc)
I took a meter to my car when i first got it and found this out...

face em backwards, right between the struts, like everyone else ;)
 

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NOT THE ANSWER!!!! who marked that anyway? needs to be unmarked. nice theory, but in actuallity there are more factors that fire the subs forward for best sound, back for more bass. come on now.
-the answer is: it depends on the subs, the box, and the amount of power you are giving them. some boxes do well forward, so do well backward. some even do well facing up. this is true for SQ and SPL. ive change subs/boxes in my car about every 3 months. ive spend many hours listening, and lots of time with the meter tweeking the SPL. in the latest design i was using two diamond audio m6 12s, in ported boxes and they were .8 db louder when fired forward(149.1 to a 149.9 closed car). getting higher spl numbers really really depends on the mic placement and aligning the mic with the wave, and although it may help, moving the box front to rear makes more of a difference than firing it back. for sq you run into way more things to consider. from impact, to definition, to the transition with the midbass or midrange drivers. anyway the point is you need to experinemt to get the best results. in car audio there are NO diffinitive answers on best placement for every situation.

josh
 

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Originally posted by: 1badcat
NOT THE ANSWER!!!! who marked that anyway? needs to be unmarked. nice theory, but in actuallity there are more factors that fire the subs forward for best sound, back for more bass. come on now.
-the answer is: it depends on the subs, the box, and the amount of power you are giving them. some boxes do well forward, so do well backward. some even do well facing up. this is true for SQ and SPL. ive change subs/boxes in my car about every 3 months. ive spend many hours listening, and lots of time with the meter tweeking the SPL. in the latest design i was using two diamond audio m6 12s, in ported boxes and they were .8 db louder when fired forward(149.1 to a 149.9 closed car). getting higher spl numbers really really depends on the mic placement and aligning the mic with the wave, and although it may help, moving the box front to rear makes more of a difference than firing it back. for sq you run into way more things to consider. from impact, to definition, to the transition with the midbass or midrange drivers. anyway the point is you need to experinemt to get the best results. in car audio there are NO diffinitive answers on best placement for every situation.

josh

lol so you're saying two of the exact same amps powering the exact same subs will yield different ratings if the subs are faced a certain way? Sorry I don't believe that.

Mike
 
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as general guidelines, those characteristics hold true.
in specific applications, they can be different.

facing them backwards just makes the wave path longer, which usually helps out.
In vehicles like a camaro, facing them up produces the same effect, facing them backwards really just makes nasty standing waves.

I mean really you can try facing them different ways to see what you think, but for practicality's sake I would stick them facing backwards behind your seat like everyone else :D

you could really beat this topic to death with technicality but really there is no need.
 

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He's not say the sub itself will perform any differently, but the way you percieve the sound will be different and the phase will be different. If your placement is somehow creating a phase cancellation, it will severly diminish the amplitude of the sound wave, and if you are getting waves to move in phase you can create an amplifying effect. (This is very simplified)
 

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- I marked it as the answer-

Remember this is a GENERAL forum on questions about audio and electrical issues. Pointing out the details will just add to the confusion, which leads to more questions, and in the end an alike matter of who knows what and how much better they know of the subject. We might as well have an advanced section on audio, but there would be a small number of us members posting questions because more than half of the knowlede is from the just few. Only arguments come out on top over anything else.

Now saying in GENERAL SETUPS with daily listening volumes, that statement of placement is about as simple as it gets. Most of the average setups consisting of 1 or 2 subs facing the rear due to space and cargo area needed in the everyday lives of the everyday person, basically sounds better at normal listening levels. But opinions on that are far beyond everything. It all depends on the ears of the one who owns the vehicle. One may hear a lower frequency , while the other cant even tell its there.


...it seems someone unmarked the answer........it was the member med first post incase anyone wants to know whats goin on now- Really the answer check option only causes more questions.
 

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posted my mike
lol so you're saying two of the exact same amps powering the exact same subs will yield different ratings if the subs are faced a certain way? Sorry I don't believe that.

Mike
-yup thats exactly what im saying. get an rta and do some of your own tests, and youll see that moving the box will make a difference.
RTAs cost 1599. SPL mic is 899. get one and see for yourself.
why do you think SPL competitors spend hours moving boxes around? its go get that last .1db!!

-it blows my mind that so many people on this board make so many assumptions about what works and what doesnt. in some cars it may make a difference firing subs back, but to make that a "general assumption" is just not doing anyone a helping hand. (x) cougar owner might have two jl12w0s firing back and can pull a 142db off the dash. to him, they may sound good and firing back may be the best answer. (y) cougar owner might be using a single 13w7 and although he doesnt compete, he notices that he can get a cleaner sound firing forward. whos right? it all depends on the owner and his/her listening preferences.

-with all my posts i try my best to give real honest advise. the audio/video section should not be a "general" idea section. if someone has a real question we all need to make an attempt to answer in the most open minded way. by telling owners that this way is best in most situations, what are you basing your info off of?? your cougar?? maybe what you heard from another cougar owner?? point being that it would be stupid to say that "gernerally two 10s sound better than two 12s." what subs? what amps? what enclosures? what kind of music does tha owner listen too? what does the owner prefer? too many of of you forget that audio is a very personal experience and that everyone has a different style that they like more/less. personally, i like the sound of six 8" subs. but i dont listen to a lot rap so for me to come out and say that 6 8"s are generally better sound than 2 15", i would be way out of line. same thing goes here.

josh
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i appreciate all the help...from everyone, didn't mean to start a war though

im probably going to end up firing the subs back and the port either up or in the same direction. my only problem is that

face em backwards, right between the struts, like everyone else
between the struts, i wouldn't get more than 3.5 ft....im planning on glassing my wheel well and using that for more space. i need 5 cu/ft to make the enclosure that i want...i've heard these subs in a 5 cu/ft enclosure and they sound beautiful...(much better than i thought they would sound) i may just go sealed, but i doubt it after hearing these subs ported as opposed to sealed.

anyways though, thanks for all the help and ill post plenty of pics when i'm done.

james
 

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No war here, we all welcome your thanks and hope the best in your future ideas.
 

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I agree with 1badcat on this one.

Its like this kid told me today,

he said "What are you getting now that you sold your type-r?"
i said "An 18"
he said " Oh why man those are horrible they have way too much distortion"
he said " anything bigger than a 12 distorts!"
:rolleyes:
 

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i believe that larger cones do tend distort more if they are not properly built..that is if there is too much flex in the cone...i wouldnt say anything over 12 distorts though..with a crappy amp and bad box you can make any speaker distort..

distortion is more so a function of inaudible frequencies resonating your cone...making the audible frequencies sound like sh*te

**and just ot get back on topic.............WHAT EVER SOUNDS BEST TO YOU IS HOW YOU SHOULD FACE THEM.......its all about personal preference
 
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