New Cougar Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Not long after I bought my Contour in 2017 I started looking for cheap mods. I found another '98 GL parts car/4 banger with factory 15" alloys. I got it delivered (about 45 minutes) for less than what a set of these wheels were going for on eBay and quickly swapped them with my steelies.

As I mounted them, I immediately saw the offset on the 15's was maybe 5-7mm wider than the steelies. Also, the lugs lack about 1 thread of fully seating on the studs. I honestly don't remember if the studs were even, or protruded from, the lugs on the parts car. As the lugs weren't fully on the studs, I checked the torque on them for about a week to see if they were loosening. They weren't and I've driven the car about 50k miles since with no issues.

FWIW, these wheels made a huge improvement. The car didn't feel simply better; it felt like a different car. I think the 14" steel wheels with the narrow offset kept the suspension in a state of bind.

Anway, after recently rotating the tires, I noticed a vibration in the front and took the car to a local shop for re-balancing the fronts. They do good work and I've used them on all my vehicles. There was some improvement, but not as much as I hoped for. I experimented with air pressures over the next week and got the car tolerable. FWIW, these suspensions are very picky regarding air pressure.

After replacing the rear end links on both cars, and the chassis bushings on the Contour, of course the left front end link started clunking. I replaced them yesterday...after nearly suffering a hernia WHILE using a large 1/2" breaker bar to loosen the lugs. I dunno how much torque I can generate, but that was about all I had. So much in fact I sheared the 1/2-3/8 socket adapter. I'm lucky I didn't shear the studs off.

I'm assuming the tech saw the lug nut/stud issue and maxed the air gun for safety. It would've been nice to have known his concern/action.

This made me wonder. How risky is this? Should I immediately replace all studs for full lug nut engagement?

After replacing the front end links, I torqued all lugs to spec (85 lbs) and checked them after short drives: no loosening. Many techs routinely over-tighten lugs but this was ridiculous. They HAD to be close to 200 lbs.

I'll drive it more this afternoon and recheck this evening. Honestly, I don't expect them to loosen. But, I'll probably end up replacing them with slightly longer studs, at some point, just to be safe.

Any thoughts?

BTW, at proper torque, most of the vibration has disappeared.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,114 Posts
it might not be a bad idea to replace them anyway. im going to be replacing mine this winter. i had one stick on my friday, and i had to break it off. mine come on and off much more than anyone on there.
and get some that are a bit longer just in case
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
24,394 Posts
Rule of thumb is you should have at least 7 full turns of the lug nut before it's seated.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,503 Posts
Rule of thumb is you should have at least 7 full turns of the lug nut before it's seated.
I think I'm at 7 or 8 with my 10mm spacers only because the lugs themselves seat better in the wheel than some others that have a thicker base. It's always something at the back of my mind but the car has been through some hard driving and they never budge.

What's the part # for longer ones?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,333 Posts
My rule of thumb for blind fasteners in general is at least the same length engaged as the width. So if its a 12mm fastener, I would want at least 12mm of full engagement.
open ended nuts need at least one full thread extended past the nut.
Lock nuts need to be flush or better.

I agree that its probably a good idea to replace them anyway, since you dont know if they were damaged by over-torquing or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustToddSC

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Actual engineering rule of thumb is that you should have the major diameter of the thread worth of threads engaged, so for an M12x1.5 like our wheels use, it should have at least 8 threads engaged.

And I've broken my share of lugs since I'm liberal with the ugga duggas. Now I've got torque sticks at least...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Wow. Tons of suggestions and responses. Here's a pic from a nearly identical car that came with the same wheels I'm running. So it does appear Ford used slightly longer studs.
80907


I drove the car about 100 miles today, nothing over highway speeds, but drove normally, for me, which passengers sometimes find upsetting. I checked the torque when I got home and none had loosened. At all.

Still, the single missing thread does concern me, even after 50k miles, and especially after the ridiculous over-tightening. New studs are now on the to do list.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,503 Posts
Didn't see this posted anywhere... heres what i run.

ARP 100-7708 Wheel Stud
Yea, that's what I currently use for my 10mm spacer setup. But even with short, open-ended lugs I max out at 7-8 threads and still have about 3 more before using the whole lug up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Drawn in, pressed in, whatever.

You use a hammer to knock the old studs out one at a time, with the caliper and rotor removed there's just enough room to get factory studs out. Then you get the new stud in and lined up, put some sort of bearing on the stub and hub face, and run down the lug nut, back it off, and repeat a few times. When done, make sure to check your wheel torque frequently for a bit because they can and will loosen as rust works its way out from behind it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustToddSC

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,333 Posts
I dont remember clearly, isnt there some sort of grinding involved to get the new ones in without pulling the bearing/hub?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
24,394 Posts
Yep they will come right out if the stud is aligned right next to the mounting point for the wheel speed sensor. You can't just pop them out anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustToddSC

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
50 more miles today of (my) normal driving. No loosening but will still replace with slightly longer studs for peace of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
The real purpose of extended studs is so u can run rims with spacers and still have enough stud to be caught by ur lug nut. Drag racers have extended studs as they're required by most tracks if u r running lensos/bogarts/welds.
Oh I concur. I ran 5 mm spacers (the largest allowed in my class) on my Si during autox and had to use longer studs. Sadly, I learned this the hard way. I was running r-comps and lost the RF in a very tight corner. Course workers described the failed lug nuts as "bullets."

Ford clearly used slightly longer studs for cars originally equipped with alloys to allow for full thread engagement. Since the offset on these wheels is significantly larger than steel it's even better than running spacers. Further, if the lug nuts have 4 full threads and I'm only using 3, it's similar to only using 3 properly seated lugs.

I'll be changing them and should have already. I'm not really concerned for normal driving but no way I'd autox or track this car, especially on sticky tires.

BTW, the rear has drum brakes. Anyone know if the studs can be replaced without removing the hubs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Flushed the brakes today and just noticed the rear (drum) studs are slightly longer than the front (disc) studs and fully engage the lugs. Odd but does make it easier.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
It might actually be because the drum hat is thinner than the hat on the rotor, leaving more visible threads on the stud.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustToddSC
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top