[B3NN3TT]

As noted on the first image, those are “universal photos” and not representative of the actual kit for this car.

 

[Ricardo70]

Yes, what work would it take to make a correct photo of each kit ...

 

[Ricardo70]

I have thought that thinking about how to improve the behavior of the suspension is somewhat futile, you can only buy an adjustable suspension and do tests.
I've been learning and there seem to be three types of products:

1º Low quality Chinese
2º Of European quality but adapted to European standards that do not allow the height of the car to be adjusted.
3º Chinese but of European quality that do allow the height of the car to be adjusted.
This group 3 has been recommended to me because it is cheaper than 2 and of much higher quality than 1.

These are the products:

Kit Suspensión BC Racing – Ford New Mondeo(2.0) (96-00)

Kit Suspensión Street K-Sport Racing – Ford Cougar (EC) (98~01) D-FO-23

Street D2 Racing – Ford Cougar (EC) (98~01) D-FO-23

XYZ MONDEO 96~00 FO13

I have seen that the 330mm brake kits, from 1500 €, come with the disc and the 4-piston aluminum caliper, normal or floating disc, drilled or scratched, but I think that unless the car is used in competition on racetracks, a considerable duration, for recreational use it is not necessary to rush the braking so much and it is much more economical and entertaining to make the conversion 300mm focus ST and move the front ones back in the future.

When I can buy the second cougar I will look for one with a good engine and "few" km

And seeing what the shock absorbers or springs can cost as well as the bearings, cups and normal covers of the car, I do not see the price of an adjustable kit as expensive.

I put all this new in the cougar that I have, it was cheaper but thanks to making a few purchases for two years looking for quality products in liquidation.
But I see that every day it is more difficult to buy like this since there is less stock so it is another reason to buy an adjustable kit

If I misunderstand "some" kit allow these settings:
1º Camber and front Toe.
2º hardness of the shock absorber
3º spring preload
4º height of the car


Now the question of the day:
I have seen that many drifting cars install commercial or hand-made parts to replace the (wheel support, brake disc, bearing, old steering and damping, as it is called? I put a photo)

they do it to change the dimensions or allow another damping or to install adjustable slats to calibrate the camber.

This piece weighs a lot, and is part of the unsprung mass of the car, has anyone thought about it?

 

[Ricardo70]

Hello I have learned three new things:
1º The scales that weigh the car on its four wheels, marking the difference in weight per axle and diagonally, are used to adjust the distribution of dynamic weight and thus be able to adjust the preload of each spring.
2º The distribution of physical weight of the car between axles can be used to gain traction or braking and it is never 50/50 as brands tend to presume.
3rd To improve the grip of the rear axle you can give a bit of Positive Convergence or Divergence (Toe out).

 

[mmc757]

This is an amazing site for learning about suspension design:


This is a great article about driving techniques

You might not need expensive coilovers unless you expect to make frequent adjustments. BurtonPower sells SPAX adjustable struts and lowering springs.

 

[mmc757]

I have seen that many drifting cars install commercial or hand-made parts to replace the (wheel support, brake disc, bearing, old steering and damping, as it is called? I put a photo)

they do it to change the dimensions or allow another damping or to install adjustable slats to calibrate the camber.

This piece weighs a lot, and is part of the unsprung mass of the car, has anyone thought about it?

We call that the knuckle. You're probably right that it would be possible to save a little unsprung weight there, but its actually not that heavy once the bearing and wheel hub are removed, so the Cost : Benefit ratio is probably not favorable.

Also notice that none of those cars have axles passing through the knuckle.

 

[B3NN3TT]

3rd To improve the grip of the rear axle you can give a bit of Positive Convergence or Divergence (Toe out).

Certainly true. Setting toe-out in the rear promotes rotation.

In previous seasons I struggled with rear grip; I frequently spun out on the course. I tried changing tire pressures, changing damper stiffness, replacing springs for stiffer or softer ones, and disconnecting sway bars entirely, but nothing helped give me confidence that the rear would hold in a corner, so I was not able to push the car as much as it should have been capable of. Finally as a last resort I made a tiny adjustment to add a little toe-in on the rear wheels, and it magically found its grip. I use an adjustable rear toe control arm from Massive Speed Systems; it took only about a quarter-turn of each side to keep the rear planted. Tiny adjustments make very large changes in handling characteristics, so you can't move them very much without unexpected results.

 

[Ricardo70]

B3NN3TT
"I use an adjustable rear toe control arm from Massive Speed Systems " I could put a photo, thanks

 

[B3NN3TT]

MASS'12497.7 - Massive RaceSpec Adjustable Toe Arms - Massive Hardcore Racing Performance Parts - Massive Speed System - Ford Focus Specialists

Massive Speed System offers Hardcore Performance Parts for your Ford Mustang, Focus & Trucks. Custom fabricated suspension components, underdrive pulley systems and much more. The Midwest's best source for Hardcore performance parts.

massivespeedsystem.com

 

[Ricardo70]

Thought the subframe bolt would be enough, does that arm replace the one in the photo?

i love the toy

 

[B3NN3TT]

It’s much easier and more precise to adjust these than to move the subframe bolt.

Adjust the length to match the stock arm so the alignment is unchanged, then twist the arm as needed to alter the toe for track use. Twist back to stock position when you’re done.

 

[mmc757]

Where is that video that shows how the toe arms flex in turns?

 

[B3NN3TT]

Where is that video that shows how the toe arms flex in turns?

I've never seen one; would be interesting.

The flex of the stock stamped arms causes momentary toe-out, promoting rotation. Which is good for normal spirited driving, but bad for 10/10 driving, so I'm much happier with what I'm using now.

 

[mmc757]

I've never seen one; would be interesting.

The flex of the stock stamped arms causes momentary toe-out, promoting rotation. Which is good for normal spirited driving, but bad for 10/10 driving, so I'm much happier with what I'm using now.

I thought it was one of the top-gear videos but I'm not sure. It looked like a go-pro mounted behind the rear wheel that showed it toeing out

 

[Ricardo70]

Hello, The more I learn about the settings or values of the angles of the car I realize that they are very important and complicated.
These angles change the behavior of the car.
These angles vary if the car is accelerating, braking or in a curve, due to the flexion of the components and the silentblocks.
And varying an angle can vary the other angles, as it happens to the angle of advance.

Car Makers Make a "ZERO" or Home Adjustment
But according to the use of the car: we can improve it for driving in the city, for driving on the highway, or for fast or slow circuits.
In F1 sometimes they don't find the correct settings for each circuit and that causes them to lose points.

A very interesting topic

And the question:
Do we know the angles or adjustments that the cougar has from the factory?

I know that the alignment workshops the machines they use have these values but I can't find anything on the internet and it is rare not to find anything, I would like to compare the settings of the cars that I have driven for example ...

 

[B3NN3TT]

Toe angle and thrust angle are the only adjustments one can make on the factory suspension of this chassis.

Thrust angle should be zero no matter what, while toe is subjective to your application, as you described above.

Camber and caster are fixed unless you add other custom parts.

 

[Ricardo70]

Yes, but although we cannot modify them, it would be interesting to know what factory values they have.

Camber:
I think the front axle is negative and the rear axle is negative or neutral? It is interesting to know if the car has them right, they may be wrong due to lack of tightening or a blow to the car.

Caster:
Sure it is positive, in some cars you can make more positive by putting a simple flat washers, but in ours at home you can not.

Toe IN or Toe Out on the front axle? and the neutral rear axle?
In this if there is play and it varies a lot according to the car.

Angle of thrust: If the car is good it would have to be zero.

After changing all the elements of my suspension, I'm sure I don't have any of them right ...

But with adjustable dampers like the ones we talked about before and the adjustable rear arm we could touch almost all of them.

But it is not my intention, for now I am just curious to meet them.

 

[mmc757]

Camber:
I think the front axle is negative and the rear axle is negative or neutral? It is interesting to know if the car has them right, they may be wrong due to lack of tightening or a blow to the car.

It would take a pretty serious blow. Movement in your control arm bushings or strut mounts might cause a little bit of variation but not much. I would guess it probably rolled off the factory pretty close to zero and is probably still there.

Caster:
Sure it is positive, in some cars you can make more positive by putting a simple flat washers, but in ours at home you can not.

Theoretically possible to modify by cutting off the strut tower tops and installing a custom plate similar to a camber plate, or by building custom control arms or modifying the existing ones. But no good reason to do so.

Could be measured by measuring the slope of the strut if you really wanted to know.

Toe IN or Toe Out on the front axle? and the neutral rear axle?

Probably pretty close to zero both front and rear from the factory. I think the last time I had mine done professionally they set it to zero. A little bit of toe-in maybe.

 

[Ricardo70]

Today I had to take my wife's car to the tire shop to repair a wheel with a pinching bolt and I took the opportunity to ask if the alignment machine measures all the angles regardless of whether they can be changed and I have also asked her where they can be looked at What angles do the cars take?

And she has answered me that if the machine measures all the angles of the car.

And that the measurements that each car has is something very difficult to find, she has told me that every time he has to update the database of his machine the manufacturer of the machine charges him 600€

So in the future when the cougar takes him I will take a picture of the machine screen to see how the car was and how it should be.

I'm going to find that adjustable rear arm I find a very desirable toy

 

[Ricardo70]

Hello I bought this "brake disc and caliper knuckle assembly" (mangueta) from a cougar

Piston 60mm


And next month I will buy this other from a jaguar x-type that has a 300cm disc to see if there are compatible parts and differences between the brake calipers...
1555kg of car

Piston 57mm




JAGUAR S-Type 3.0 i V6 238cv = 326mm disk =60mm piston (some models)
JAGUAR S-Type R 4.2 i V8 406cv =365mm disk = 2x30mm or 4x20mm piston

1929kg of car...
I do not think they are compatible, a shame because to brake almost 2000kg they have to work well in our cougar