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All shops will be spraying a dual stage, base + clear. The only places that can do single-stage are automotive plants with electrostatic booths, or very high-end shops. But metallic vs non-metallic has nothing to do with dual/single stage paints -- its a matter of if there's a base and translucent layer (like a kandy), or not. Is that what you were asking?

If so there is only one company now that makes a black kandy -- Alsa Corp. It's pretty cool looking, and many effects can be achieved like with normal kandies -- but its very costly, you need perfect bodywork (everything shows up on black), and a damn good painter (blotching and streaking is easy w/ tri-coats).

E1
 

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With flat colors the easy way would be to spray a normal base, and then use a flattening agent in the clearcoat. The more flattening agent you add, the flatter the color becomes.

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well basically whats happening is i have a hold of a buddys shop to spray my car and thee painter is going to help me out but i have to go the majority of the work. i like the look of the stock black and i want to make sure it still comes out with the shine and brilliance in the paint. basically the mirror reflection and i was told it would be best achieved through a dual stage with putting a coat of metallic chips (i know im probably not usign the proper terminolagy so bare with me please) or i can also us the single stage spray with the chips already in the paint.
im doing more research on this to make sure i have the proper understanding of it.
thanks for all the help guys
 

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Dual Stage = Spray your base color, then a clear coat over top
Tri Stage = Spray base color, kandy (translucent paint to tint the color), then clear over that

The metallic chips you are speaking of are probably micro or macro flake. This is mixed in the clear and sprayed at the end, but it looks like crap on sports cars -- it should be reserved for Lowriders and Minitrucks. Done wrong and you can end up with a 70's speedboat look.

Black kandy is just another kandy color, you use any color base, and then spray the black kandy, it changes depending on the base color as the black is translucent. You still have to clear over that, however. You cannot take pictures of kandy paints, nor will you ever see paintchips online for kandies, ask anyone who's seen my paint books and they can tell you why, you simply cannot reproduce kandy paint on a monitor -- it shifts and changes depending on light, and the color can be modified by adding more or less kandy, and lighter/darker base coats.

If you really want to get fancy you do something like we did for my car, where you spray your base, then airbrush a full scene, then kandy over that, and clear. You end up with ghost patterns in the paint that are only visible at specific angles and lighting conditions. (of course, this isn't ALL we've got going on with my car this year, so no I didn't give anything away yet)... ;)

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Technicaly speaking you will end up with a glossier finish if you put a clear on top of your color. That way you can get that wet look. One step paint cannot give you much more then 70% gloss at 20 degre angle compare to almost 95% with a clear system!!
It's more expensive but look way better, especialy on sunny day!!
 

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I think he meant first off that his idea of a single stage is just the base, so by him saying he wants the flake added or whatever he wanted to add to make it shinier will not affect it. You'll want to just spray the base black then clear and im positive your not going to use a laquer either. Adding the flake will add an affect but will take away from the clear reflection of black paint seeing that the little bit of shine will distort that perfect reflection. So basically tell him you want to spray it black, no flake and also E1 i know you know ur sh*t but i also have my certificate to spray through dupont and i was always taught to spray a flake or matalic in a balancer even sometimes as a binder as just a seprate step itself then spray the clear. With colored flake i have been taught that when you wet sand and buff you may hit a flake standing on its side and even though the flake is blue its really silver like painted blue (dont really know what process is used for color flake all i know is that they all pretty much start silver). well by sanding a flake on its side you lose the color you sprayed so you end up getting silver and blue flakes. I know i suck at spelling and trying to collect my thoughts to make complete sentences thats why im not going to college but i joined the marines lol. But dont take that as i do not know what im talking about and if you have some info on this please share i know im still learning but i did do it for almost 4 years up untill i did join the service. But there is more i would like to learn since the shop i worked at was kind of old fashion and when i came in and brought new techniques i was frowned upon, so it was hard to get to experiment as much as i wanted to do cause the old timers thought they new everything there was and they were stuck in the 80's lol.
 

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Streetfame, I'm sorry man but I could hardly understand what you were saying. More periods and more pressing enter will help - and you'll need that in the Marines as well, trust me, I'm a retired Marine...

All flake goes into the clear, and then you spray extra layers of clear w/o adding anything into it -- that becomes your sanding layer. Same with pearls, this is the typical format. I have no idea how long it has been since you've done paint work, but I've been deeply involved in custom paint for 15 years now, and I currently own a shop that does nothing but custom paint.

One thing to remember, DuPont makes automotive OEM paints, their custom line is nowhere near HoK, Alsa, or PPG -- all of which I teach classes on at the shop with my airbrusher. (We're teaching classes for Iwata now, as well.)

dont really know what process is used for color flake all i know is that they all pretty much start silver
Flake is either micro pieces of metal, or glass/plastic shavings. They don't all start silver... And I've never hit flake, and of my 5 lowriders all had extensive flake added into the clear layer. Standard lowrider paintjobs consist of 3 layers of clear with flake, 3 layers w/o flake, sand. Then build up an additional 12 layers of clear. The lambo blue you see in my signature contained ice pearl in the first 6 layers of clear, with straight clear for the remaining 6 layers. (Over a gallon of clear used.)

Flake, when added and used properly does not detract from the paintjob -- it adds depth and sparkle.

E1

E1
 

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Thats cool, its what i expected im usually not that bad with the typing just for some reason i couldnt get it together. Well ya at the shop i have been working at its been almost all OEM painting. The only experiences i have ever had with HOK is from the owner of the local supply store. He has been taking time and showing me as much as possible in the limited amount of time i have.

I def. understand if i were to use 12 coats of clear then it would be the same as using it in a paint balancer then clearing. My shop would never spray 12 coats on a oem job. On personal items i went as far as 5 coats and have always been taught its enough. Money definitaly is a factor in that also seeing im only 21 and pretty much taught myself on my first coug at 16.

Listen, im from the east coast so learning from your classes might not be possible but, its something i would like to know. I plan on going into law enforcement once my time is served but, painting and body work are something i would love to keep as a hobby and learn as much as possible. So, any more techniques and general knowledge about custom paints is greatly appreciated, seeing i didn't get to use it that often. Honestly i started with body work and never really wanted to paint. After painting something i did the work on though totally changed my mind. I have a real good knowledge of custom body work and im good at what i've tried. There are members that have seen my work and i never really asked them their opinion but i get a good review if you wanna say that. Like i said if you feel like typing some more its always good to hear it from someone that knows it, and im willing to learn more. I have a pretty good understading of most custom work but everyone does it different so i like to hear "both sides of the story" and find out the right way.

Also, i def. understand with the marines i need to be tight. I've been through basic and soi. Its just i've never been good in english, my subjects are math and history. Just never had an intrest in it since i wasnt naturally good in it like the others. Didnt stop me from getting a 1310 on my SAT's that did me no good since i didnt go to college lol. You get the point lol.

With my flake comment i think what the original poster wanted to know is if it'll make his paint shiner and thats no. It'll add a sparkle which will be catchier but the paint wont be glossier. Is that understandible and a correct statment?

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yes i follow now, i appreciate all the help guys im just going to go with the dual stage since this will be my first paint job myself. and from pics i have been looking at, as long as the clear coat is put on well/right i will have my desired affect.
 
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