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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ANy of you guys have this prob..my mechanic told me when i got my last oil change done..that the bottom of the oil filter was ballooning a little..he said to keep an eye out for maybe one of the oil pressure release valves in the engine could be stuck, not releiving pressure thoughout the engine..causing all the pressure to go to the oil filter..he said it can hold up to 300 psi, and then it will blow off ( like a turbo!! WOO HOO..no this is not good)...... the ballooning he saw could be around 150 psi to do that..

anyone see this? help!
 

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ahh...the joys of an underpaid, undereducated mechanic.

I highly doubt any "internal reliefs" are stuck. I say this cause if they are going to fail they would fail open and then you would have zero oil pressure. Not even sure our engines have such a thing. However the filter can does have a pressure bypass valve. but again if it fails it fails open.

Also when he says that it would hold 300 psi that is the burst strength. At 300 psi it would blow up like grenade, not shoot off the engine. However I doubt the filter would ever see 300 psi. You'd have seals in the engine blow out way before the filter would.

Now here's an interesting question. What does he mean by "bottom" of the filter? Does he mean the very end? Cause if so all filters already have a slight "dome" to it. Or was it on the side near the bottom. If the latter is true then you might worry.

Why would it balloon like that? Well since to take it to your local 15-minute quick change they use the absolute cheapest POS filter they can find. Probably a defective can. They also use the cheapest oil they can get to. Cheap usually does not mean quality.

So how do you prevent this?? Learn how to do your own oil changes. A quality Hastings or Motorcraft filter will never have a problem and they cost less than $4 at your local autoparts store. You'll save money and you'll know it's done right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks!

Well i get mine done at quaker state..so its all good products are used..

yes the bottom of the filter has a slight dome..but it was pushed out a little farther then normal..i will have to keep an eye on this next year..as it is goin into storage next weekend :(

any other ideas what could cause this?
 

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I'm not 100% positive about this but I think Fram makes the filter for Quaker State. Fram sucks. I wouldn't use Fram if they gave me a blanck check to mod my car with.

The dome on the end is actually the stongest part of the can. Think back to science class. What shape is the stongest. A circle right? Well that's why it's domed. The sides would ballon before the end would. My guess is that the machine that stamped the cans was messed up and pushed it out to far. Fram beign the crappy filter it is passed it in QC anyways.

I would just check the next few changes for any recurring problem but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
 

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I have read of one instance where a duratec blew its oil filter up, now wether or not it was
the anti-drainback valve or something to do with the engine, I don't remember but it has/can happen
good or bad filter.
 

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Originally posted by: BrantlyJ
So how do you prevent this?? Learn how to do your own oil changes. A quality Hastings or Motorcraft filter will never have a problem and they cost less than $4 at your local autoparts store. You'll save money and you'll know it's done right.
For real. It's quick and easy, learn it now or get ripped for the rest of your life.
 

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Originally posted by: Tygerr
Originally posted by: BrantlyJ
So how do you prevent this?? Learn how to do your own oil changes. A quality Hastings or Motorcraft filter will never have a problem and they cost less than $4 at your local autoparts store. You'll save money and you'll know it's done right.
For real. It's quick and easy, learn it now or get ripped for the rest of your life.

I totally agree. I used work as a lub-tech at precision tune when I got out of highschool and all the other guys that worked with me were idiots. Whenever I did a job I pretended I was working on my mom's car, so I never screwed anything up. Granted I caught hell for being too slow, but whatever. The other guys would forget drainplugs, filters or even to put oil in cars. So you are way better off doing it yourself. If it helps in the beginning make a checklist and double check everything before you're done. Here's a link I've posted before to a comparison of many popular filters. oil filter comparison I totally agree with BrantlyJ NEVER USE FRAM they are the biggest pieces of crap out there.
 

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Actually BrantlyJ, a triangle is the strongest shape. Thats why monster truck frames are made with triangles and not circles. If they were made with circles, The whole body would collapse. I do realize that the bars they use are circular steel, but the triangle is the strongest shape.
 

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being isn structures class for mechanical engineering right now helps out. The strongest 2D shape is a triangle but, the strongest 3D shape is a Dome. Since a dome is made up of a bunch of triangles this would multiply its strength.
 

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Originally posted by: BrantlyJ
I'm not 100% positive about this but I think Fram makes the filter for Quaker State. Fram sucks. I wouldn't use Fram if they gave me a blanck check to mod my car with.
At one of my old jobs, we cut apart some oil filters, most were screen held in paper, but the fram was paper and a sort of zip tie holding it. Yes Fram sucks.
 

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There is a known problem with the pressure relief valve on the pump of the early model year Cougars (99-00). I believe engines built before January 2000 are suseptible to this problem.

In these engines, the valve bore in the pump can become worn and cause the valve to stick (particularly when cold). When this happens, oil pressure can build to high levels and cause the filter to burst. The ideal solution is to replace the pump, but this is extremely difficult to do on our cars. A more reasonable solution is to buy good quality filters that can handle some excess pressure and let the engine warm up a bit before you get into the upper rev range.

If you search a bit, you should also be able to find some more discussion on this topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks!

The mechanic told me this could also happen from revving high right from starting it..meaning not letting it warm up..and YES i do have a bad habit of that..i will remember this for next year..thanks a lot guys!
 

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I never knew that Fram was a bad brand, I thought that I was buying quality products! I guess I was wrong, thanks for bringing this to my attention! I've stopped going to the quickie oil change places when I was in high school, I've heard the horror stories that came from those places (such as impacts being used to replace drain plugs, wrenching the hell out of the oil filter so it becomes nearly impossible to get off, and of course the always popular running the engine w/out any oil cause they were going to fast to pay attention to what they were doing) Well, at least now I can buy a quality filter for my car instead of the zip tied paper!
 
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FRAM IS NOT A BAD BRAND. I use a FRAM ToughGuard filter (TG2) and have NEVER had any issues with about 35K on my Coug'. :) I'd stick with FRAM, Wix, or Motorcraft OE filters.

But, yes, FRAM does make the QuakerState filter. Importantly, a FRAM ExtraGuard filter and a QuakerState brand filter ARE NOT THE SAME FILTER. They have different media, and the ExtraGuard media is superior to the QuakerState filter media. The ExtraGuard media has a better single-pass and multi-pass efficiency rating. That's why a QS filter is cheaper than a FRAM -- just a different grade of filter, nothing more.

If you're using a FRAM PH2 for your Cougar (recommended for the Cougar 2.5L)...remember, this is the same oil filter used on the 2003 Mustang GT, Cobra and Mach 1, as well as the 3.0L Taurus and even the Ford F450 V-10 6.8L. It's one tough cookie. It's got long life, low restriction, high strength, and high efficiency.

Basically, you are somehow overpressurizing your filter.

The first thing to fail under overpressurization would be the external gasket on the filter (unless you have your filter torqued on beyond all comprehension). Generally, during Hydrostatic Burst Strength tests, the gasket almost ALWAYS blows/spurts before the dome would balloon or before the lockseam would give. I've seen and performed this test myself. There is also an Impulse (Hydrodynamic) Fatigue Strength test, which is generally for testing the strength of the tapping plate (threaded part) and lockseam of the filter under dynamic pulsation, however, also includes the overall mechanical soundness of the filter (yes, the filter body). The Impulse test cycles the filter from 0 PSI to some higher PSI and at certain frequency (usually 0.5-1 Hz). The pass/fail parameter is a minumum number of cycles before failure.

If something broke inside of the filter, either the relief valve would stick open, or, the cartridge would collapse (implosion rather than explosion). An open relief valve means you get continuous oil flow through your filter, but it doesn't get filtered through the media -- your engine gets unfiltered oil but survives. You would definite tell if you collapsed a filter on your car. If your filter cartridge has collapsed, there will be the same area to circulate oil IN, but since the cartridge is whacked, there may not be enough area to return the oil back to the engine. Thus, you'd have more in and less out, resulting in an increase in internal pressure and your car is being starved of oil.

If not that, I think you should just check your setup for anything working out of order. And if you have seriously mod'd your Coug', even check your oil system pressure and make sure your filter is the right one for your engine setup.

For more filter testing and operation info, do a Web search for "SAE HS-806" and "SAE J1858". Those are standard test procedures for the oil filter market.


That's my $.02...

D$
 

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That last statement is a little misleading.

If you're using a FRAM PH2 for your Cougar (recommended for the Cougar 2.5L)...remember, this is the same oil filter used on the 2003 Mustang GT, Cobra and Mach 1, as well as the 3.0L Taurus and even the Ford F450 V-10 6.8L.
Ford uses ONLY Motorcraft FL820S (F1AZ.6731.BD) on those vehicles. The FRAM PH2 is made to fit said vehicles, but they are not "used on" them from Ford.

I just wanted to clarify the above statement by pointing out that Ford does not use or recommend using ANY other filter, other than Motorcraft.
 
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Yes, good point. :cool:

Ford uses Ford Motorcraft OEM filters on their vehicles (made by Purolator).

The FRAM aftermarket oil filter is the PH2, TG2, or XG2.

D$
 

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Originally posted by: badkitty01C2
FRAM IS NOT A BAD BRAND. I use a FRAM ToughGuard filter (TG2) and have NEVER had any issues with about 35K on my Coug'. :) I'd stick with FRAM, Wix, or Motorcraft OE filters.

But, yes, FRAM does make the QuakerState filter. Importantly, a FRAM ExtraGuard filter and a QuakerState brand filter ARE NOT THE SAME FILTER. They have different media, and the ExtraGuard media is superior to the QuakerState filter media. The ExtraGuard media has a better single-pass and multi-pass efficiency rating. That's why a QS filter is cheaper than a FRAM -- just a different grade of filter, nothing more.

If you're using a FRAM PH2 for your Cougar (recommended for the Cougar 2.5L)...remember, this is the same oil filter used on the 2003 Mustang GT, Cobra and Mach 1, as well as the 3.0L Taurus and even the Ford F450 V-10 6.8L. It's one tough cookie. It's got long life, low restriction, high strength, and high efficiency.

Basically, you are somehow overpressurizing your filter.

The first thing to fail under overpressurization would be the external gasket on the filter (unless you have your filter torqued on beyond all comprehension). Generally, during Hydrostatic Burst Strength tests, the gasket almost ALWAYS blows/spurts before the dome would balloon or before the lockseam would give. I've seen and performed this test myself. There is also an Impulse (Hydrodynamic) Fatigue Strength test, which is generally for testing the strength of the tapping plate (threaded part) and lockseam of the filter under dynamic pulsation, however, also includes the overall mechanical soundness of the filter (yes, the filter body). The Impulse test cycles the filter from 0 PSI to some higher PSI and at certain frequency (usually 0.5-1 Hz). The pass/fail parameter is a minumum number of cycles before failure.

If something broke inside of the filter, either the relief valve would stick open, or, the cartridge would collapse (implosion rather than explosion). An open relief valve means you get continuous oil flow through your filter, but it doesn't get filtered through the media -- your engine gets unfiltered oil but survives. You would definite tell if you collapsed a filter on your car. If your filter cartridge has collapsed, there will be the same area to circulate oil IN, but since the cartridge is whacked, there may not be enough area to return the oil back to the engine. Thus, you'd have more in and less out, resulting in an increase in internal pressure and your car is being starved of oil.

If not that, I think you should just check your setup for anything working out of order. And if you have seriously mod'd your Coug', even check your oil system pressure and make sure your filter is the right one for your engine setup.

For more filter testing and operation info, do a Web search for "SAE HS-806" and "SAE J1858". Those are standard test procedures for the oil filter market.


That's my $.02...

D$

Don't you work for FRAM? If so, I can sense some bias here :)
 

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Originally posted by: CougarGT
Originally posted by: badkitty01C2
FRAM IS NOT A BAD BRAND. I use a FRAM ToughGuard filter (TG2) and have NEVER had any issues with about 35K on my Coug'. :) I'd stick with FRAM, Wix, or Motorcraft OE filters.

But, yes, FRAM does make the QuakerState filter. Importantly, a FRAM ExtraGuard filter and a QuakerState brand filter ARE NOT THE SAME FILTER. They have different media, and the ExtraGuard media is superior to the QuakerState filter media. The ExtraGuard media has a better single-pass and multi-pass efficiency rating. That's why a QS filter is cheaper than a FRAM -- just a different grade of filter, nothing more.

If you're using a FRAM PH2 for your Cougar (recommended for the Cougar 2.5L)...remember, this is the same oil filter used on the 2003 Mustang GT, Cobra and Mach 1, as well as the 3.0L Taurus and even the Ford F450 V-10 6.8L. It's one tough cookie. It's got long life, low restriction, high strength, and high efficiency.

Basically, you are somehow overpressurizing your filter.

The first thing to fail under overpressurization would be the external gasket on the filter (unless you have your filter torqued on beyond all comprehension). Generally, during Hydrostatic Burst Strength tests, the gasket almost ALWAYS blows/spurts before the dome would balloon or before the lockseam would give. I've seen and performed this test myself. There is also an Impulse (Hydrodynamic) Fatigue Strength test, which is generally for testing the strength of the tapping plate (threaded part) and lockseam of the filter under dynamic pulsation, however, also includes the overall mechanical soundness of the filter (yes, the filter body). The Impulse test cycles the filter from 0 PSI to some higher PSI and at certain frequency (usually 0.5-1 Hz). The pass/fail parameter is a minumum number of cycles before failure.

If something broke inside of the filter, either the relief valve would stick open, or, the cartridge would collapse (implosion rather than explosion). An open relief valve means you get continuous oil flow through your filter, but it doesn't get filtered through the media -- your engine gets unfiltered oil but survives. You would definite tell if you collapsed a filter on your car. If your filter cartridge has collapsed, there will be the same area to circulate oil IN, but since the cartridge is whacked, there may not be enough area to return the oil back to the engine. Thus, you'd have more in and less out, resulting in an increase in internal pressure and your car is being starved of oil.

If not that, I think you should just check your setup for anything working out of order. And if you have seriously mod'd your Coug', even check your oil system pressure and make sure your filter is the right one for your engine setup.

For more filter testing and operation info, do a Web search for "SAE HS-806" and "SAE J1858". Those are standard test procedures for the oil filter market.


That's my $.02...

D$

Don't you work for FRAM? If so, I can sense some bias here :)
hehe, I was thinking the same thing. I can personally atest to the cheapness in how Fram filters are made. Cut them open myself, would you like pics???
 

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The best options are a Motorcraft FL-820S or a K&N HP-2010.

I run the later because of it's tested flow rating.



Oh yeah. Fram oil filters in general really are bad. Great marketing, very poor product.
 
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