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Discussion Starter #1
Well instead of going with kicker comps I got a pretty good deal on 2 AW1208T - Audiobahn 12" 1500 Watt Flame Compression Subwoofer. They are dual 2 ohm voice coil subs that can be ran at 1 or 4 ohms I was wondering what would be a good amp to run these. Would like to stick with audiobahn and if anyone has some feedback on these did u like them or did i just make a crappy purchase?
 

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Alot of people on the boards swear by Audiobahn subs. I have some Audiobahn's as well, they're not hooked up yet, but I just cannot wait to hear them! Mine will be run by Concept amplifiers.
 
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Well I went with the audiobahn A2200HCQ 1600 watt amp to push both of them for now. Kind of on a tight budget being i still have to have the local stereo shop make me a custom box and do the install. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks it will all be done. Will take pics when it is all finished anyways any feedback is helpful.
 

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errrrr I hope you bought two of those amps......you won't be able to push both with it. If you put both subs on it, the best you can do will be like 400 rms per speaker.....they need 1500 rms each.....
 
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I know they wont be getting close to what they need for right now. But its gotta wait untill I get paid or get my tax return. My credit card is about maxed so im screwed for now.
 

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Originally posted by: CougarBalla2k5
errrrr I hope you bought two of those amps......you won't be able to push both with it. If you put both subs on it, the best you can do will be like 400 rms per speaker.....they need 1500 rms each.....
Agreed! My subs are rated at 1000w rms each, and I've got a 1200w rms Concept amp going to EACH sub
 

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Keep in mind that you are more likely to damage or blow a sub by providing insufficient power..than too much power.
 

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WRONG KENNY.

Sorry, but thats not right. You cannot hurt a sub by giving it to little power. You can however hurt it by giving it too much power, which is what you are doing when you use a too small amp and turn the gain all the way up and set it into full clip....go to google and search for clipping and why it kills subs. If you set the gain right, you can use any amount of power as long as it isn't extremely over rms go as low as you like
 

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No... you really can hurt a sub by not giving it enough power.... it's just not good for it... what will happen is if you ever put any power to it it will blow almost instantly....

Read up on the SoundDomain forums... lot of VERY KNOWLEDGABLE people on there...
 

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i have seen few and far between the number of good subs blown from over powering..i had a 100 rms SAVARD (filler sub) in my box for the last 3 months and i have my stereo cranked..500 RMS!! and my gains at about half so somewhere around a 6 db gain..minnor inaudible clipping and that sub pounded harder then a lot of more powerful subs my friends have..

however i have to agree with GMK not enough power can damage subs..
You can however hurt it by giving it too much power, which is what you are doing when you use a too small amp and turn the gain all the way up and set it into full clip....
you just said exactly why a small amp with not enough power will blow subs..:crazy: :rofl: hehehe

as long as he doesnt try to compensate for lack of power by turning the gains all the way up he should be fine with that amp until he can afford a better one or another one...pretty much every sub out there has a minimun input wattage or say 50 RMS..that will be enough to push the sub but not give it incredible bass..he is also having a shop put it in hopefully they are reputable and know about cliping..they will set it right for him.
 

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But you aren't giving it little power with that small amp, you are clipping the amp and giving it 50x what the amp normally does. YOU go to www.termpro.com and read up THERE. Much more knowledgable ppl than sounddomain

YOU CANNOT BLOW A SPEAKER WITH TOO LITTLE POWER.
 

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Hook up a 250 watt rms Jensen sub to your head unit. Put the volume up all the way. The sub will be fed a clipped signal. This fact cannot be disputed. The subwoofer will NOT be damaged in any way.

Get yourself a 200 watt amp. In theory, the amp should put out about double that power when driven into full clipping. Should that amp put out 400 watts, the "200 watt" amp could kill the 250 watt sub. This is the origin of the misconception of underpowering a subwoofer.

The problem lies within your installation. Keep in mind that installation not only includes the physical labor but also the tweaking and whatnot. If you set the gains correctly, the amp should not put out more than its rated power. If the subwoofer is matched to the amp and its box properly, you should be fine. However, a n00b crankin up da gainz might allow the amp to put out more power.

So read my words carefully. It is not the clipping itself that damages the subwoofer. An amp driven into clipping will usually put out more than the rated power. More power = heat. Heat = thermal failure. Clipping = nonsense fairytales for Pixy Fairies like myself to tell

Quoted from Tempe on termpro.com sorry I didn't quite explain it as well myself :p.

Another person - In sum, clipping does not blow speakers. It is the additional power that is produced by clipping that can damage speakers thermally. But ONLY if that extra power cannot be dissipated by the speaker itself.

Bumpin Yota says - Point 1 - When we are talking about playing a frequency at a given power, we are traversing a time period.

Point 2 - A fully clipped square wave produces an alternating DC signal. The sub goes to full excursion, stays there for a bit, then pops back in to full incursion and stays there for a bit. Each time it stays there for a bit, it is heating up due to the amount of magnetic energy the coil must produce to fight the restoring force of the spiders, surround, and the air behind and infront of the cone. (The magnitude of the magnetic force of the coil is determined by how much power is running through it.)

Thus, when the non clipped wave form's overall power is dropping the square wave form is still at FULL power, until the DC power switches polarity. The the amp goes to full power again.

A conventionally non clipped sineusoidal waveform will be true AC, but a fully clipped sine waveform taking on the square wave is essentially alternating polarity DC power.


IE - POWER and POWER alone kills subs thermally

Now if you free air a sub at 20hz with 4kw fully clipped of course you are going to kill the sub mechanically before it dies thermally...


ps - forgive any grammatical slip ups, im typing this as I go out the door to get my truck louder....
 

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COUGARBALLA, usually you give ok advise. BUT YOU ARE VERY VERY WRONG ON THIS ONE. UNDERPOWERING ANY SPEAKER CAN AND WILL DAMAGE IT WHEN DRIVEN AT LOADS EXCEEDING THE AMPLIFIERS LIMITS.
josh
 

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a good amp that i know of for those 2 subs would be an MTX 1500.1 D class amplifier. it is a mono amplifier and it's rating is 1500watts @ 2 ohms...so if u run each of your speakers in a series, then parallel them to the amplifier, then you would be getting the most out of your amplifier, and im positive, the 2 audiobahn speakers will just about have all they can handle...i have personally used the 1208s and im sure they can run on their "1500 watts RMS", but i ran the hell out of them with only 500 per sub.

hope this helps

and....as far as audiobahn amplifiers, i've heard nothing but horror stories and how their power ratings are way more then they actually put out..but then again, i have never used them, so don't take my word on that. i have personally used the mtx 1500 and really love that amp...very beefy and great sound.

good luck
james
 

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ya know what? someone get an extra sub, and underpower it, and try to blow it. i want to know!! (i would, but i dont have the money. i have a pyrmid 15" 700watt max sub that someone can have , for free, if they want to test it.)
 

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Holy crap - reading this thread made me want to throw my computer out the window. :puke:
FREE KNOWLEDGE FOR THE BATTLE FOLLOWS!

When it comes down to it, there are only two things that can kill speakers - heat & overexcursion. Not power, not "clipping" or some other means. Some of these conditions may lead to heat or overexcursion, but they do not directly cause failure.

Heat
Heat kills speakers by simply melting it from the inside. An accurately rated 1000W rms speaker dissipates 1000W of heat all day long so long as it is moving. That's how manufacturers determine power ratings. Remember from science that energy is never created or destroyed, it just changes form? Electrical energy turns into mechanical energy at the voice coil. But if you exceed that 1000W input power, where does that extra energy go? It turns to heat - the voice coils begin to warp, magnets may melt and glue can separate causing failure.

Overexcursion
Overexcursion occurs when a speakers is prompted to move farther than it is mechanically capable of. For example, if 1000W rms moves a speaker 2 inches from resting position and that speaker is designed to move a maximum of 1 inch, it will likely be damaged. Either the surround will separate, the voice coil will break or become otherwise compromised, the speaker cone will separate from the spider, or any combination of all of these. This is why both selecting an amplifier and a box design is crucial. Oversizing a box will allow the speaker to move farther than intended with rated power.

Distortion
Distortion is output that varies from the input to the amplifier in some way other than power amplification. This may include added noise, pops, signal degradation, hissing, alternator noise/sine waves, etc.

Clipping
God, I love this one. Many people have no idea what clipping is. Some people think clipping is a sound you can actually hear or a special signal or level of volume/gain. Clipping is an event that occurs when an amplifier is requested by pre-amp signals to produce more output voltage than it has the capability to do.

Take my JL Audio 500/1 monoblock sub. What is the Max voltage that amplifier is capable of producing @ 4 ohms?
P = I V where P=power, I=current, V=Voltage
V = I R where R=resistance (impedance)
P= 500W; R = 4 ohms
P = I * V; since V = IR
P = I^2 R
500W = I^2 * 4
I^2 = 125
I = 11.18 amps
Since V = I*R
V = 11.18 * 4 = 44.72 volts

When the amplifier gets to 44.72 volts output (regardless of 4, 2 or 1 ohm output) that amplifier reaches its maximum voltage. At that point, any request for a higher voltage is just DENIED!!! The amplifier may continue to produce 44.72 volts at one or many frequencies, but that is the maximum output voltage it is capable of - the signal output reaches a maximum ceiling.
If you look at a sine wave (your amplifier's output is a sine wave) it goes up and down smoothly. Once you reach the threshold of tolerance for the amp, the top and bottom of the wave quit being smooth curves and look on the oscilloscope as if they've been "clipped" off. The speaker and amplifier don't stop moving because the amp is "clipped." It's just that having a volume or gain knob simply does no more good for the strongest frequency - it is stopped at a maximum, while the other information continues to be amplified (increase).
Keep in mind, any amplifier that is capable of putting out 1000W rms is capable of putting out 2000W max (a fully clipped signal). In the above case, where your speaker is capable of handling 1000W rms, it won't survive 2000W continuously, and will melt should you give it 2000W.
The reason most stores and alleged car audio gurus tell you that clipping kills speakers is because most people draw a parallel between speaker value and attaining the maximum heat or excursion capabilities of the speakers when that's simply not the case.

Physics, ya'll... and math.

It boils down to these simple steps:
Design your system well BEFORE purchasing any components.
Make sure components are properly matched to each other.
Make sure components are properly installed.
Make sure your system is tuned and tweaked responsibly and properly.

The key is in balance and knowledge.

BTW, I'm a nationally certified MECP First Class car audio installer and did this for a living before I got in the Army. I used to have this conversation all the time with customers. I love watching people get so excited and angry over this subject. Sometimes I even start these arguments for fun...
:evil:
 

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Originally posted by: leibler
Holy crap - reading this thread made me want to throw my computer out the window. :puke:
<STRONG><EM>FREE KNOWLEDGE FOR THE BATTLE FOLLOWS!</EM></STRONG>

When it comes down to it, there are only two things that can kill speakers - heat & overexcursion. Not power, not "clipping" or some other means. Some of these conditions may lead to heat or overexcursion, but they do not directly cause failure.

<STRONG>Heat</STRONG>
Heat kills speakers by simply melting it from the inside. An accurately rated 1000W rms speaker dissipates 1000W of heat all day long so long as it is moving. That's how manufacturers determine power ratings. Remember from science that energy is never created or destroyed, it just changes form? Electrical energy turns into mechanical energy at the voice coil. But if you exceed that 1000W input power, where does that extra energy go? It turns to heat - the voice coils begin to warp, magnets may melt and glue can separate causing failure.

<STRONG>Overexcursion</STRONG>
Overexcursion occurs when a speakers is prompted to move farther than it is mechanically capable of. For example, if 1000W rms moves a speaker 2 inches from resting position and that speaker is designed to move a maximum of 1 inch, it will likely be damaged. Either the surround will separate, the voice coil will break or become otherwise compromised, the speaker cone will separate from the spider, or any combination of all of these. This is why both selecting an amplifier and a box design is crucial. Oversizing a box will allow the speaker to move farther than intended with rated power.

<STRONG>Distortion</STRONG>
Distortion is output that varies from the input to the amplifier in some way other than power amplification. This may include added noise, pops, signal degradation, hissing, alternator noise/sine waves, etc.

<STRONG>Clipping</STRONG>
God, I love this one. Many people have no idea what clipping is. Some people think clipping is a sound you can actually hear or a special signal or level of volume/gain. Clipping is an event that occurs when an amplifier is requested by pre-amp signals to produce more output voltage than it has the capability to do.

Take my JL Audio 500/1 monoblock sub. What is the Max voltage that amplifier is capable of producing @ 4 ohms?
P = I V where P=power, I=current, V=Voltage
V = I R where R=resistance (impedance)
P= 500W; R = 4 ohms
P = I * V; since V = IR
P = I^2 R
500W = I^2 * 4
I^2 = 125
I = 11.18 amps
Since V = I*R
V = 11.18 * 4 = 44.72 volts

When the amplifier gets to 44.72 volts output (regardless of 4, 2 or 1 ohm output) that amplifier reaches its maximum voltage. At that point, any request for a higher voltage is just DENIED!!! The amplifier may continue to produce 44.72 volts at one or many frequencies, but that is the maximum output voltage it is capable of - the signal output reaches a maximum ceiling.
If you look at a sine wave (your amplifier's output is a sine wave) it goes up and down smoothly. Once you reach the threshold of tolerance for the amp, the top and bottom of the wave quit being smooth curves and look on the oscilloscope as if they've been "clipped" off. The speaker and amplifier don't stop moving because the amp is "clipped." It's just that having a volume or gain knob simply does no more good for the strongest frequency - it is stopped at a maximum, while the other information continues to be amplified (increase).
Keep in mind, any amplifier that is capable of putting out 1000W rms is capable of putting out 2000W max (a fully clipped signal). In the above case, where your speaker is capable of handling 1000W rms, it won't survive 2000W continuously, and will melt should you give it 2000W.
The reason most stores and alleged car audio gurus tell you that clipping kills speakers is because most people draw a parallel between speaker value and attaining the maximum heat or excursion capabilities of the speakers when that's simply not the case.

Physics, ya'll... and math.

It boils down to these simple steps:
Design your system well BEFORE purchasing any components.
Make sure components are properly matched to each other.
Make sure components are properly installed.
Make sure your system is tuned and tweaked responsibly and properly.

The key is in balance and knowledge.

BTW, I'm a nationally certified MECP First Class car audio installer and did this for a living before I got in the Army. I used to have this conversation all the time with customers. I love watching people get so excited and angry over this subject. Sometimes I even start these arguments for fun...
:evil:
THIS is what I was trying to say!!

You CANNOT kill a speaker with too little power. Because too little power cannot create extra heat or make the sub over excurt itself!

YES you can kill a speaker with a small amp rated under the RMS of the sub....you said exactly what I was trying to say 1badcat, LOADS EXCEEDING THE AMPLIFIER'S LIMITS.

Picture it like this, you cannot take a golf tee and stab it straight through some one...unless you put it in a bazooka and fire it at 4000 feet per second :p.

When you drive an amp over its limits it is NO LONGER PUTTING OUT LESS THAN THE RMS!!!!
 
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Actually I would like to edit my post because I am offended that I even replied to this topic :p

elitecaraudio.com
termpro.com
soundillusions.net

post there and see how you are laughed at.

Here's a simple solution-- undistorted power within ratings.
 

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Med -

Um, yeah. The first part of your post? I have absolutely no idae what you're talking about. But I did understand one thing:

Originally posted by: med
Here's a simple solution-- undistorted power within ratings.
Exactly.
 
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