[bleedingGAS]

Hey to ALL!!!
How are you guys doin today?

Well, I'm posting this because, quite Frankly, I need Help.

Well, I'll give you the information and then ask what you think I should do with it.

To start, I have a Complete Garrett T-25 Turbo from a 97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST that I helped my buddy take off of his Eclipse because he put on an upgraded Garrett Turbo and Boost controller and what not. So I opted to take the old turbo off his hands because the thing needs to be rebuild. Not a full rebuid, rather only a simple rebuild kit off Ebay would suffice perfectly as the Compressor shaft has a very small amount of play in it. A new set of bearing and a Really good lube and I'll be all set to go.
Now, I am VERY knowledgeable about the entire Turbo setup and how to do it, But what I am NOT very knowledgeable about doing so to our 2.5L Cougars and I'm comming to you guys for answers.
I work at a machine shop and my father happens to be the Vice President of the Company with a FULL powdercoating facility also. If anyone needs any custom work done. I can have it done for you for cheap, just so you guys know.

Well, my first question is this: How do you guys normally install the Turbo seeing as how we have "V6's" with 2 Exhaust manifolds and its not as easy to install a Turbo as it would be for a Single exhaust manifold on a 4 Banger. You see where I would have a question? I scrolled through a couple threads to get an answer but I didn't quite find the info I was looking for.

My next question is, in order for the Turbo to work properly it needs a great cooling line filled with pressurized OIL. Well...Where do I tap into the engine to get nice Clean, pressurized oil to supply the lubricating system on the Turbo? And after that is answered, there are a few different places to route the Oil Return line but where do you guys normally do this and/or where is the BEST place? I Understand this is an arguable thing but I need some options if you guys could do much as to help me out here please!

Another question is, Do I run the intake tubing off of the compressor housing directly into the Throttle Body while still going through all the stock parts that the filter would ordinarily connect to, like the MAF sensors and what not.

Should I even bother with using an InterCooler? I am capable of making something that would act like an intercooler to cool the compressed air very well also. I could also just buy an intercooler off of a turboed car from a junk yard or something. I have a hook up at a salvage yard to get good parts for cheap also.

Now for my ideas: I was thinking that I would Take the Turbo and run it off the Exhaust Manifold on the Front of the engine facing the front bumper sorta place. I figured if I take the Stock Precat off and run the Turbo in its place, it will in essence, create a little back pressure in the absence of the HIGHLY restrictive Precat, and leave the CAT on the other exhaust manifold so the backpressure it fairly equalized. That sounds like it would work good. But if someone knows a better way, PLEASE let me know how you do it!! Run my Pressurized Oil coolant line from possibly the oil Filter using an adapter, run the Oil Return Line into the Oil Pan. Run a Small Intercooler(If I even Bother to use one at all seeing as how all I want is LOWW PSI...maybe around 4-6psi Tops since its Stock internals) and use a basic Blow Off Valve, maybe from a older DSM like a 91' Eclipse GSX because they have metal B.O.V.'s capable of holding around 20-25psi Stock but I would need nothing close to that power, I would only use it because they are build Tough and I can make it adjustable.

Alright, that just about sums it all up, from what I'm working with to what my Ideas were. Please leave suggestions if you have built the turbo kit before for my car. If you havent built a kit before and your only offering useful information, thanks, but I'll tend to listen to someone that has gone through this before. Thanks for your time and effort in helping me out everyone!!!:biggrin:

 

[brapple]

:facepalm:


sorry I am not going to read post I got a turbo off an eclipse .... a turbo is not just a turbo .... no way that is big enough for our cars. sell it and then contact NPG fora turbo kit ....


ok I lied, I skimmed over the rest ... you really need to read the build threads here and on CEG ....

 

[SlowCat]

Read through some of the build threads, yes they are long, but well worth it if you are serious about going turbo. The pictures will explain most of your questions, but to be nice & answer a simple one the turbo is after the Y-pipe so that both banks of the engine can feed into it. And as previously mentioned, All turbos are not created equal, and that one was designed for use with a signifigantly smaller engine. I haven't looked too far into adding a turbo, but there is more than enough people who have gone that path & it has been well documented several times.

 

[Dingomansvt]

You need to replace the y-pipe with a custom made y-pipe that wraps around to where the battery sits as thats where the turbo would sit. You can tap oil from the allen bolt on the back of the head. You also need a oil pressure reducer on that line. I would also run a check valve. You can run 3.5psi safely with no tune or intercooler. I would tune it/intercooler/and run 10lbs. eventually. Check out NPG. They have a nice turbo kit.

 

[frinesi2]

I'm not much of an authority on forced induction but,

You don't want back pressure. Run a high performance cat (magnaflow makes one that is good). DO IT RIGHT. Use the turbo kit from an eclipse if you want, but know you won't get insanely high numbers. Use an intercooler. A stock one is fine as long as it fits your requirements. Don't ghetto something together. If you can do this all for a decent price, but still get good numbers, have it reliable, and have good fit and finish, you will have done quite a good job. Please for the love of all that is good and holy, do not ghetto-rig a turbo in there, and get a tune. Otherwise you will blow up your engine. I'm not saying you will, but I think its about time to have a good crazy new member on these forums, and you are my pick.

Happy Turboing.

 

[bleedingGAS]

Well, the little that I have asked you guys to either help me with or for a little information, ya'll have been really Rooting for me. And I appreciate this greatly! I REALLY do!!:bowdown:


As for the Turbo setup. As much as I trust you guys in saying that I should go with a NEW turbo from "NPG" rather than the Turbo that I have out of an Eclipse, I'm going to stick with the Turbo from the JAP car.

Ok, and here is my reasoning. (I know some of you will NOT agree with me and may even find it in themselves to insult me slightly, well, I'm sorry and do as you must, but I'm a believer in my ability to make custom installs of unconventional components and make them something truly unique.)
First, I already OWN the Turbo from the Eclipse. All it needs is a little Tune-Up for sake of argument. Ok. $100 and I can turn my Turbo back into a Tiny Fire Breathing, compression making, forced induction queen. hahaha. So, you might ask, WHY spend the $100 in reconditioning it rather than just buy another one. Well... Heres my answer, I looked on Ebay and couldn't find another turbo for nearly that price that is in GOOD working condition. My Turbo is Small YES, BUT it is the Cleanest Mechanical part ever! Honestly, It's spotless and I know where it came from so I trust the part. Another thing is I have Fully inspected the Compressor wheel and the Exhaust Housing for Bend/Cracked/Broken Blades and what not and it is in Excellent Condition!

The next reason for keeping this little BEE is because she spools up Extremely quicky being so SMALL and would put out a small amount of BOOST which is honestly what I want. I don't want high Boost numbers because that would be foolish on my part seeing as how I have ALL Stock Internals. I want a daily driver with a little more PONY behind her, Not a Build drag car sorta thing. I don't want to invest ALOT of money, but on the other hand, In order to get the Turbo Kit Perfect, I DON'T MIND spending a little money to do so. The other good thing is I have a Machine Shop that I have FULL ACCESS to all the welding equipment, Mandrel Tube Bending Hydraulic Machine, Fully stocked Shelving with TONS of Metal, Powdercoating, Etc. (I guess I'm really Lucky in this respect) So custom Fabricating ANY New Manifolds or what not will be a Sinch to say the least! lol

So, this little Turbo won't put out High numbers to Produce a good powerful motor. But what it will do is Spool Fast and produce the SMALL numbers Quick that I'm looking for. So, this is why I chose it.

Which Allen Bolt am I taping into in order to get a pressurized oil Line to Cool/Lubricate my Turbo exactly if you could help me out please??

And I'm VERY unfamiliar with the OIL PRESSURE REDUCER, I havent heard of this being needed before, what kinda pressure am I looking to provide for the turbo verces the stock pressure?

Thanks again guys!! Really Appreciate it!!:biggrin:

 

[kustomcougar]

did you throw the electronic supercharger idea out the window? :rofl:

 

[SlowCat]

Thought this might help you understand why all turbos are not equal, and why that one is too small.

On the image the blue line is about how much air the 2.5L would use on about 3psi, the dots represent every 1000rpms starting at 2000rpms. As you can see that isn't even graphed on the compressor map...

The yellow line is 5.6psi, again starting at 2000rpms. The amount of air needed is bearly in the range of what the turbo can handle. By 3000rpms you've left the turbos range already.

Bump things up to 8 psi and you get the red line. 2000rpms is the sweet spot, but just past 3000rpms you fall out of the turbos range. And 4000rpms is way out of it range, and nearly off the chart.

A turbo that small will absolutely choke the engine, in general factory turbos are on the small side for the engine they are being used with. Obviously the compressor map I used may not be the exact one for the stock eclipse turbo, but it will still be fairly close & give you an idea of why a bigger turbo is needed.

 

[bleedingGAS]

Thought this might help you understand why all turbos are not equal, and why that one is too small.

On the image the blue line is about how much air the 2.5L would use on about 3psi, the dots represent every 1000rpms starting at 2000rpms. As you can see that isn't even graphed on the compressor map...

The yellow line is 5.6psi, again starting at 2000rpms. The amount of air needed is bearly in the range of what the turbo can handle. By 3000rpms you've left the turbos range already.

Bump things up to 8 psi and you get the red line. 2000rpms is the sweet spot, but just past 3000rpms you fall out of the turbos range. And 4000rpms is way out of it range, and nearly off the chart.

A turbo that small will absolutely choke the engine, in general factory turbos are on the small side for the engine they are being used with. Obviously the compressor map I used may not be the exact one for the stock eclipse turbo, but it will still be fairly close & give you an idea of why a bigger turbo is needed.

I don't Understand that Map AT ALL! From what I can see, It doesn't show the consumption of air of any engine, but rather shows what the operating pressure of the Turbo at different PSI's.

The Turbo WILL work I'm almost POSITIVE. It is SOO small that it will Spool Up to the 3.5psi or whatever I decide I want it to run at Very quickly. Prolly around 2500rpm that baby should be screaming for me. Then because it is already at the desired intake pressure, any way you look at it, that SAME pressure is still in the Intake. The Turbo will continue to add the pressure regardless of what the RPM the engine is at.
Heres an example to show you how it would work.
Ok, to start, I'm driving at W/E speed and my RPM's are at 2.5K rpm, Now my Turbo is right at that SWEET spot where she is hissing and hitting my desired Pressure of about 3.5psi lets say. Now, The Wastegate is opening so that the turbo doesn't continue to spool up past that intake pressure. As I step on the gas, the intake pressure starts to drop with the Large amount of Air the Engine is now needing so the Wastegate closes again allowing the Turbo to do nothing but Continue to build the same pressure its designed to operate at which I set to about 3.5psi allowing the constant pressure of 3.5psi to be in the intake manifold consistantly. The Garrett T25 Turbo was originally chosen by Mistubishi to provide the QUICK response with Fast spooling, thus Fast Pressure, providing ALMOST INSTANT POWER. They were chosen to provide power for a 2Liter engine. Our cars are only 2.5Liters. The amount of Cylinders doesn't matter because its the same displacement any way you look at it. The T25 Turbo is good for up to 17psi Bone Stock. Then you hit its limits and can break the thing fairly quickly. Soo...No matter what RPM my engine decides it wants to hit, the Turbo is more than capable of HOLDING that Very Small amount of Air Pressure (Being Only 3.5psi in this case). She will happily SPOOL till heaven tells her not to in order to keep that pressure in there also.
Look at it this way, If she can HOLD 17psi on a 2Liter engine thats running almost 8K rpm, I'm sure she can hold my 3.5psi on a 2.5Liter engine running only around 6.5K rpm.
So, You Understand my Logic.
I agree with you when you say that all Turbo's are NOT created equal, but in this case, my Turbo and my Engine will Mate together very well.
If I were to use an even smaller turbo that was meant for a 1.6Liter car that was only supposed to operate at around 5-6psi, THEN I would be in a bit of a situation and NEED something larger because it would actually wind up choking the engine down a little bit, Even tho it would provide much better air flow than Naturally Aspirated, but once the RPM's kicked up the Turbo wouldn't be capable of holding the PSI desired and might actually not pressurize faster than the engine can suck air providing a Vacuum situation which would be a complete FAILURE!! haha:rofl:
Do you agree with me here or am I missing something?
Please explain it to me if I am missing something.
Even if everyone on the forum told me NOT to do it, I'm still going to, Only because I know ALOT about engines and Forced induction situations and what not and know it will work regradless, But just to prove it, I will provide build pics, and a Boost guage video also if anyone wants to see it.
Thanks for your opinion and concerns guys.
I really take things like this into account if I Havent thought about them before hand.

 

[bleedingGAS]

did you throw the electronic supercharger idea out the window? :rofl:

YES, I most DEFF did!!:banghead:

All of you talked me out of it soo much that I completely Gave up on the idea and havent even thought about the idea since it was kicked SOO VERY HARD to the curb I almost FELT it!! hahaha LOL:rofl:

 

[B3NN3TT]

That turbo unit was designed to support a 2.0 liter engine; you have 25% more displacement than that, and will need to plumb 5X more tubing.

As mentioned, it will feel great until you hit about 3000 RPMs, then you'll hit a brick wall and soccer moms will blast past you in their minivans.

Seriously - you'd be doing more harm than good. You aren't ready to take this step. You have a lot of reading and learning to do.

 

[gamiller]

You're not going to like this recommendation, but trust me, this is the place to start:

Read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. When you're done, you will know what questions to ask and you will know which answers are completely wrong.

Had I done that before buying a kit and having it installed, I could have fixed the issues I encountered much faster, like a year sooner.

 

[bleedingGAS]

That turbo unit was designed to support a 2.0 liter engine; you have 25% more displacement than that, and will need to plumb 5X more tubing.

As mentioned, it will feel great until you hit about 3000 RPMs, then you'll hit a brick wall and soccer moms will blast past you in their minivans.

Seriously - you'd be doing more harm than good. You aren't ready to take this step. You have a lot of reading and learning to do.

ya, maybe...

And reading and learning I will do...
I'll get exact numbers to make sure what I'm doing will be something that beats even those "soccer moms", hahaha!!:rofl:

 

[Gorman]

And reading and learning I will do...

here you go..straight from the horses mouth.. TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Systems Tech Center ..G.

 

[brapple]

ya, maybe...

:facepalm:


look, you asked a question, how about you listen to the answers instead of just hearing what you want. you obviously already made up your mind ....

http://www.newcougar.org/forums/forced-induction/130622-turbo-question.html

 

[bleedingGAS]

:facepalm:


look, you asked a question, how about you listen to the answers instead of just hearing what you want. you obviously already made up your mind ....

http://www.newcougar.org/forums/forced-induction/130622-turbo-question.html

And likewise, You Looky here! I am listening to what they said, I took that into account and I am looking up information about it to see exactly what I'm working with. Just because someone said something, doesn't mean its a concrete science that nobody can judge against. What if I were to tell you something NOT too credible sounding after you asked a question. You would contest it, right? Well, I am just exploring my options. I'm not doing the install tomorrow, I'm just asking for what information people can provide. I'm not judging them or telling them they are dumb. I appreciate what they say and thank them very much so for giving there time to help:biggrin:. thats all pal. I don't "hear what I want" but rather trust the hard givin FACTS. Thats what I'm asking for. what did you contribute exactly?:crazy:

Thanks for the help Gamiller, and Gorman!
I appreciate the real information.

 

[bleedingGAS]

That turbo unit was designed to support a 2.0 liter engine; you have 25% more displacement than that, and will need to plumb 5X more tubing.

As mentioned, it will feel great until you hit about 3000 RPMs, then you'll hit a brick wall and soccer moms will blast past you in their minivans.

Seriously - you'd be doing more harm than good. You aren't ready to take this step. You have a lot of reading and learning to do.

Well, here ya go guys. The EXACT same Garrett T25 Turbo that I have.
They use the SAME EXACT turbo to supply the boost needed for a 3.0Liter Nissan Maxima and they say its good for atleast 6-7psi in stock form.

So, um, ya, I did my research and exactly as I was trying to tell ya, it works just as I want it to and just as I thought it would. I'm glad I did my research.

It's on a 3.0 Liter also. Thats a 500cc bigger engine than what we have(Well, what I have...stock 2.5Liter)

And we were worrying about the little turbo comming from a 2.0Liter and swapping it onto a 2.5Liter.

That, AND, the kit made for the Maxima had ALOT more intake tubing than I'm going to even come close to needing. I'm only going to need a few feet of intake tubing to route it from the turbo to the manifold. simple. I'm only trying for around 3.5psi so no Intercooler needed, Although I'm still contemplating it... Hmmm....
What do you guys think about this kit?

Turbo Specialties Turbo Kits for Nissan - Superior and Extreme Turbo Kit for Maxima Sentra

 

[brapple]

What if I were to tell you something NOT too credible sounding after you asked a question. You would contest it, right?

I wouldn't say anything unless I know what I was talking about. I have already read maximum boost. If you had spend any time researching before creating this thread you would have seen the thread I linked and you would have read some of the build threads.

I can't count the number of time some hot shot 16 year old with a fresh liecence come to the forums and says his buddy gave him a turbo and what do I have to do to make it work :facepalm:

again just becuase a turbo works on another car/engine doesn't mean it will work for ours.

Every kit made for our cars, or ones people have made have always used T3/T4 turbo.

 

[bleedingGAS]

I wouldn't say anything unless I know what I was talking about. I have already read maximum boost. If you had spend any time researching before creating this thread you would have seen the thread I linked and you would have read some of the build threads.

I can't count the number of time some hot shot 16 year old with a fresh liecence come to the forums and says his buddy gave him a turbo and what do I have to do to make it work :facepalm:

again just becuase a turbo works on another car/engine doesn't mean it will work for ours.

Every kit made for our cars, or ones people have made have always used T3/T4 turbo.

:disgust:
What does some hot shot 16yr old with a fresh license asking about how to make a turbo work that he got from a buddy?

I'm much older than that, and I do more custom work than most people you know, I guarantee that. I know ALOT about turbos. I have been a mechanic part time for years now also.

My only questions were(as stated in my First post) where exactly do you guys most commonly tap into to get a pressurized oil line, where do you route the return line, and where do people most commonly mount the turbo.

I only asked those questions because I havent installed a custom turbo on a Cougar before. I'm sure some of you guys have done the turbo upgrade before and have come up with something really economical for the oil line. Besides that, I already had a good plan on where to mount my turbo seeing as how I have made a custom radiator support that our cars have thats made out of stamped steel stock which sucks and now have alot more room.

And about your comment about " just becuase a turbo works on another car/engine doesn't mean it will work for ours"
Well...actually, Turbos arent prejudice, and they don't care who they work for or where they work. All they need to work is a high enough volume exhaust to get that compressor wheel spinning at a high enough rpm to create positive manifold pressure.
Granted, if you take some idiot that THINKS they know what they are doing and clearly don't and take a turbo thats soo small it will barely power a Briggs and Stratton, then OBVIOUSLY it WONT work and the guy is an idiot.

But honestly, I know what I'm talking about, and I don't need certain people trying to tell me something wont work that I know it will, I'm not calling anyone dumb or saying I don't appreciate your thoughts, but I wouldn't do this if I had ANY information that says it might not.

And just because everyone uses a T3/T4 Turbo means I have to also?:rofl:

I do Very unique work. any of my customers will tell you. I'm trusted and show no reasons to prove otherwise.

So again, thanks for the help Buddy, but I don't need it anymore.
I did all the research that I need and have ACTUAL build specs with real output numbers. So after I'm done, you can LINK my information to some of your friends to show them what options they have and that they actually DON'T need to only use a T3/T4 Turbo. And I know, you didn't say we NEED to use that Turbo, but you didn't provide any insight into any other option either.

I like to keep an open mind and lots of options.

I appreciate people's insight and there concern also, it makes me double and triple check my sources.

 

[brapple]

if you do such unique work why don't you share it and show us that you are capable? so instead of being generic lets see something specific you have worked on/build/etc ?