[GrandMasterKhan]

I was talking with a mechanic for a VW race team. He Suggested a fuel cooler may be a good thing.

A lil background info: I have a Return Fuel System. I have a Walboro Fuel pump (high flow rating for return) but have not installed it.

I wanted to run the Fuel Cooler idea by you guys to get some opinions. Such as what effects would this have on FuelPressure Or any possible benefits/disadvantages. I have had this idea for a while but my cougar has been in the shop so I have just been collecting ideas.


The Fuel Cooler would be installed behind my Aussie Grill. Measuring 3"x12" approx. I would use steel lines for the fuel lines running in and out of the Cooler unit. The fuel would be supplied from the pump..into the cooler unit..then into the fuel rail

What do you guys think?

 

[DanG]

To do it safely will be $$$$... You're talking stainless steel braided lines to and from the fuel rail to the cooler, proper cooler with fuel-safe connections... Minimal effect over day-to-day driving, never mind the pressure drop over the extra distance. Now, what you can do is make yourself a "cool can" for use track use only- Basically a coil of steel line inside a can that you can fill with dry ice and rubbing alcohol before you hit the track.

 

[ignernt]

i knew DanG would have the answer on this.

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

A Cool can it is then. I guess it would be sorta like the Air/Water intercooler for the turbo kit. Only smaller.

As for a front mount Air/Air cooler. I am aware of the pressure drop, I dont see it being too expensive as I have access to most of the parts.. Any idea if a Walboro with a pressure regulator would work? The idea is to drop fuel pressure for the Walboro Fuel pump, so that it will not make me run overly rich.

 

[MrFroge]

I know about cool air and what it does, I'm seen water injection work, but I've never heard of Cooling the gas. Could someone give me some information on that??? :crazy:

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

Apparently the cooler the Fuel is the better. A fuel cooler may be good for 5hp or so. (I saw one place which claimed 15hp from their Fuel Cooler)

I believe the Fuel Cooler Can would be most effective. But it requires maintence/refilling. A front Mount would be maintence free, I might even be able to install CPU fans to further reduce temps.

I am further researching this topic and trying to come up with some valid information. Any help you guys can provide is quite helpful, thanks DanG

Edit Found pic

According to the sites i have been looking at they claim inrease in hp and they are Ideal with High volume fuel pumps.

Link to Cool Can Twice the price of a Fuel/air cooler at $125 eeek! but it decreases fuel temps by 20%


Apparently a Fuel Cooler is an Excellent idea on a S/C or Turbo application.

 

[DanG]

Just another overall attempt to drop the combustion chamber temperature. Same happens with intercooling, water/alcohol injection, etc... The idea is to interfere with or prevent additional heat from adding to the mix, increasing the tendancy to pre-detonate. By cooling the air/fuel mix, you also increase the amount of oxygen by volume available for burning, i.e. more power.

Water injection cools the combustion chamber in two ways- By virtue of the water being cold, you cool the mix. Second, as the compression stroke of the engine compresses the mix, the mix heats up, way past 212*F (100*C). At this point, the water undergoes a phase change from liquid to gas, and if you remember your chemistry, it takes 539 cal/gm (heat of vaporization of water) to complete the phase change. So, instead of heating the air and fuel around it, the water absorbs heat energy during the phase change.

Alcohol injection: Same principle- Just with the heat of vaporization of alcohol, which I don't remember off-hand.

</Mr. Wizard> :crazy:

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

The idea is to interfere with or prevent additional heat from adding to the mix, increasing the tendancy to detonate. By cooling the air/fuel mix, you also increase the amount of oxygen by volume available for burning, i.e. more power.

From that statement you say this would Increase Detonation?? So In which case this Cooling the "mix" would definilty be a bad thing to? I want to make sure I Understood you correctly

 

[pgtatx]

Isn't part of the return function of the return system to be used as a cooling effect on the fuel??

Unused fuel travels through the lines and cools slightly and then returns to the tank witha minor cooling effect.

I had been informed of this back when I had my probe and I was learing about the basic gvacuum controlled FUel Pressure Regulated Fuel systems.

 

[DanG]

Edited my post to read "pre-detonate".

 

[Y2Kat]

So the idea behind the Cryo fuel bar isn't just a load of crap?

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

The cyro Fuel bar looks like it would be the best way to cool the fuel. However refilling and such might get expensive over time.

 

[OSUStallion]

prolly the worst thing I could think of durring a front end collision!

Lets spray fuel everywhere! Awesome!

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

I dunno those gaurd rails can be pretty nasty



but in all seriousness. No, it wouldnt be 'good' in a front end collision! I may consider this cooler under the hood with a vent... I am cooking some ideas of how to make it work as both a Cooler can And air/fuel cooler packed in one.

 

[bensenvill]

actually refilling a co2 tank is cheap. You can go to any bar supply store.

There are alot of hidden costs associated with setting up a co2 system. I know your weight crazy, so I dont think you'd want a heavy metal tank in your back seat. A small CF tank runs something like 300 (I had one but gave it away). But I could probably help you out with equipement, I got a pile of surplus from a previous project.

GMK, your crazy to think about cooling your fuel now when its so frickn cold out.

~Tj

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

The fuel cooler is yet another one of my winter projects. I have many things planned as my cougar will not be driven in the snow.

The return fuel system acts a sort of cooling eh? But doesnt the fuel heat up a hell of alot when it passes through the fuel rail? (think scalding hot valve covers)...then that that warm fuel returns back into the tank...which would warm the tank to a degree. Over a period of time the gas tank should heat up more and more.


What i still dont understand is if this device would be harmful as it increases the tendicy for the fuel to Pre-Detonate.

 

[EternalOne]

The return fuel system acts a sort of cooling eh? But doesnt the fuel heat up a hell of alot when it passes through the fuel rail? (think scalding hot valve covers)...then that that warm fuel returns back into the tank...which would warm the tank to a degree. Over a period of time the gas tank should heat up more and more.

Ahh, but what about thermal dynamics, my friend. =)

Since there is air rushing under your car, past the fuel tank, the tank would be cooled in this way, thus negating the limited about of heat brought into the tank via the returned fuel.

In all, this topic has brought some ideas to my head, and I am going to do the research involved in perfecting the idea this weekend. We'll see what I can come up with at the clubhouse...

E1

 

[GrandMasterKhan]

I was thinking about thermal dymanics witht the heated fuel entering the tank....however I did not consider the air under the car @ the fuel tank. I did however think about installing 'fins' to work as Heatsinks along the steel fuel lines under the car.

I am interested to see what you come up with E1. A fuel cooler would have Worlds of Benefit on your S/C3.0, where as my lowly 2.5na would only see a minimal benefit...but a benefit none the less!

 

[EternalOne]

I was thinking about thermal dymanics witht the heated fuel entering the tank....however I did not consider the air under the car @ the fuel tank. I did however think about installing 'fins' to work as Heatsinks along the steel fuel lines under the car.

Never thought about putting fins on the bottom of the fuel tank. (Hmmm.) Kinda like that new Lexus commercial (I think its Lexus), where they flip the car upsidedown in a windtunnel to show even under the car has great aerodynamics. =)

I am interested to see what you come up with E1. A fuel cooler would have Worlds of Benefit on your S/C3.0, where as my lowly 2.5na would only see a minimal benefit...but a benefit none the less!

Yeah, I'm having to be very selective in what I choose to install, so I can maintain budget, and not break the project plan too much. All this while still trying to maintain a reliable 300hp motor. Quite the balancing act I have here...

E1

 

[BigDaddyTiberius]

Maybe you could put one of these oil filter coolers on the fuel filter. That would cool the fuel, maybe not as much as a cool can, but it's only $20.