[RyDwy]

YEp! i never really wanted a full system but latly feel like i need to put my $900 deck to good uses. the only problem is i dont know crap about subs or amp..

i was look to put either

1 MTX Thunder 9500 + MTX amp (not sure witch one)
or
1 JL w7 + JL amp (not sure witch one)

i hear the mtx sub is better then the JL ...i read this off there site ..go figure. what are your thoughts on these subs

and would n e one know how much it would cost for a clean install with box and all?

 

[Lukydogg]

Here is a couple of pointers about the two brands. If you want something to last a while and not burn up or blow a coil, then Id say 1000$ starting off with a set of subs, or single sub, and a decent quality amp. Enclosures range from 100 to as well as 1000$. It all depends on how you want to use the system, show it off, play it hard, or keep it simple and still access the spare tire.
As for which ones to go with, The MTX 9500 is a huge sub in comparison to the JL. Both are built with high quality, both play hard when you need them too, and as well play clean and accurate. Both companies are known for having a true rating on their products. They dont over rate their amps and subs like some companies do. What ever the ratings are, thats what you will get. JL actually under rates their amps and subs, while MTX will put the actual highest power limit on the product.
The overall set up determines which one is better. Having the strongest amp playing the most powerful sub will not sound very clean if the settings on headunit and amplifier are not in the reccomended ranges. Also the type of enclosure determines how well the subs perform.

 

[RyDwy]

mm see i thought geting a T9500 and a amp to match the watts would work...but you say it wont be clean? and this set up will be for show too so thats why i would have someone make a enclosure for me

what do you recommend for sub and a amp...that will hit pretty nice?

 

[Lukydogg]

It wont sound clean if improperly tuned from amplifier and headunit. As for which amp, Ill check it out tomorrow as to which one is hitting best with that sub. I spend many hours checking up on different setups, but the bad part is that they are not in car, mostly from wall demo's at Cartoys. Setting up a system w/o listening to the response from sub/amp is the biggest mistake. You never know how it will sound just by numbers.

Maybe if Im lucky enough I could pull my car into the installation dock for a quick test! Then we could see how much my car rattles from that sub and the best rated amplifier:thumbsup:

 

[Excelcier]

In both my experience and the experience of my friend and co-worker who is a multi-annual IASCCA 1st place champion, JL subs are the only sub to use. I would not reccomend anything else for the best quality bang for your buck and for space.

 

[crazyoldcougar]

i love jl stuff too...sadly cant afford it but have loved every setup i have ever heard..

as for options a really affordable one too would be the high end JBL stuff...i was in shock the other day listening to that stuff just pretty much rip appart kicker and mtx...my next system i think will have some of those components in it for sure...JBL is an up an comer so you may not have heard a lot of good things about them...there old stuff i think was kinda weak and unattractive...

just remember too that adding the kinda bass your talking about to a raw front stage will sound like poop...you will want to upgrade your factory fronts and possibly amplify them too..

best of luck let us know what you decide..and post the pics when your done..

 

[Excelcier]

just remember too that adding the kinda bass your talking about to a raw front stage will sound like poop...you will want to upgrade your factory fronts and possibly amplify them too..

Not neccesarily... I have the JL 12W6 subwoofer with a single amplifier and my internal speakers are still stock. Using the advanced crossover and frequency adjustment features of my Pioneer DEH-MP740 deck, I get a beautiful and well balanced sound from my stock speakers with no amps powered by the headunit and a very nice tight kicking bass from the JL sub. It's not the power that makes the system, it's the setup and adjustments.

 

[mercurycougar]

The master of electronics has stock speakers? what is this world coming to?

I totally agree though, it doesn't matter how many watts your amp is or how big your sub is, it just matters how it is all set up

 

[Excelcier]

Yup! I have stock interiors! I admit it. I'm actually satisfied with them overall. I added a set of tweeters on the top of the door panels with a passive X-over tapped right onto the door speakers and it sounds perfectly fine to me. I used to be more into the audio system components than I have been recently but I've stepped back a bit. In my previous car, my ONLY modifications were my audio system. I had 15 speakers and 6 amplifiers with 2 active X-over networks and 3 equalizers so I could custom set EVERY single speaker pair individually but I've had my fun to that level already. I'm trying to be more conservative in the Cougar for audio and focus more on the other modifications to explore other avenues.

 

[PGCougar]

AUDIOBAHN!! :bowdown:

 

[RyDwy]

well i do have a small amp to power my deck right now..and i believe that should be powering some speakers? or does the amp power the deck and the deck give the speakers a little power? ohh and one of my back speakers is blowin ..so ill probly be replacing the back ones...does JL make nice mids?!?

 

[crazyoldcougar]

do you have an aftermarket deck or the factory one??

the deck puts out its own amplified signal...your amp goes after the deck to the speakers...what kind is your amp how many channels? how powerful is it? will it power your subs or just speakers? lots of companies make decent midrange speakers...6 1/2 will fit with very little to no modification to your current speaker placement..yes jl makes nice mids..you dont really need rear speakers if your fronts are really good..my rears are pretty much turned off and just my PG 5x7 coax up front are enough to match my sub nicely..it all depends on your placement and set up...and quality of speakers..

 

[Lukydogg]

Well I did get to test out that MTX sub w/ an Xtant 1000 something or other model. Sounded ok untill I put in a sound test cd, kinda bottomed out way before the JL in the same enclosure with the same amp. Id go ahead and pay a little extra for the JL and have their excellent warranty. Even if your not competing, that JL W7 can produce a much cleaner tone and go lower than most any other sub of that category.

Also its very true to JBL's line of components and as well amplifiers. Price wise and quality wise they are up in the top 5 on my list of best auto sound products.
Even better I as well have stock speakers back in because the Mb Quarts were getting old, those stock 5x7"s really have a higher tone than the 130$ MB's. I have a similar Pioneer deck like Excelcier's and having a wide range of x-overs and a setting of HPF can kill almost all distortion. The lacking high frequencies are covered with seperate tweeters in the sail panels and in overhead console.

 

[PhatCatWI]

Im running alpine screens and headunits and the speakers subs and amps are all polk-momo. It sounds amazing, loud yet clean. I have no complaints on mine

 

[Excelcier]

Luckydog, funny you should say this;

Even better I as well have stock speakers back in because the Mb Quarts were getting old, those stock 5x7"s really have a higher tone than the 130$ MB's.

I actually tried 4 different 5x7's as an experiment a few weeks ago while I had my door panels off anyways and in the end, the stocks sounded the best of all the ones I tried! Surprisingly enough Ford actually picked a decent speaker, I was VERY surprised.

 

[EternalOne]

You never know how it will sound just by numbers.

This I have to disagree with. Any acoustic engineer can look at the numbers and know exactly how it will sound, and perform. That's what the numbers are for, its not something they made up.

In both my experience and the experience of my friend and co-worker who is a multi-annual IASCCA 1st place champion, JL subs are the only sub to use. I would not reccomend anything else for the best quality bang for your buck and for space.

Even though I never use anything but Orion in my cars, I still sell JL products for exactly this reason. They are a top-performing line of products year after year. Plus I respect them, since the only car to ever beat my Kia in a sound-off was at the Spring Break Nationals and we each had 4 12"s. Even if I did blow a fuse and lose 2 of the 12"s, we still had a good run against each other, and in the end his equipment held up to the test. I will always respect JL because of that day.

E1

 

[Excelcier]

This I have to disagree with. Any acoustic engineer can look at the numbers and know exactly how it will sound, and perform. That's what the numbers are for, its not something they made up.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion as opinions are subjective as is audio. I unfortunately disagree with you as well. Audio specifications are objective, however, there is no substitute for subjective analysis. I'm an engineer at Pioneer and we develop branded audio systems for Ford / Lincoln vehicles. Not only do we design per the objective technical data that determines the matched audio performance, however, before final sign-off to deliver an audio system to Ford, we must conduct LIT scored testing to verify the objective performance and then lastly the Ford audio group does a subjective listening test and passes or fails a system based on a subjective group decision above and beyond because the numbers cannot tell you everything. All our ears are different and they don't sound the same to everyone. My co-worker IS an acoustic engineer and competes in IASSCA every year and wins nearly every year. He performs full vehicle audio spectrum and SPL analysis on his vehicle with computers and scores and once that's done he still makes adjustments based on what he hears above and beyond the numbers and wins it.

 

[EternalOne]

It is true that the engineering data will not tell you how YOU will hear the speaker, but it will tell you what the speaker will do, and how it will perform under varying power levels and air resistances. What I can do is take the data and chart a frequency response curve to determine which speaker is better, not just with sound, but also with power handling, and response. This is what I was talking about, sorry.

Depending on who you compete with, and what class, sound really doesn't matter. For SPL its always been "bigger is better" thinking, and a simple dB meter is used to judge (thus how it sounds makes no difference). For SQ you have two types of judging, either by having a judge sit in your car and listen to the system quality (very subjective, and prone to errors, but the only place where sound matters), or using an SQ Meter, which graphs the frequency response curve, and looks for flat, high, or low spots. IASCA judges based upon what the machines tell them, so the best tuning for a vehcile is to get a certified meter and begin tweaking until you get it right. Now, if you're one of the unlucky people who still has a judge sit in their car, then you're SOL, because it always has and always will be very subjective based upon the judges tastes.

All our ears are different and they don't sound the same to everyone.

Which is why using your ears to determine how a speaker performs is useless.

When I did my original Orion truck and visited them in AZ, my truck was pulled in, measured, diagramed, and the data was plugged into a computer. The computer then proceeded to spit out box sizes and sub combinations for us, based upon the engineering data and acoustic performance of the truck. In the end I went undefeated in the DB Drags that year in the Professional/Shop Owner class.

E1

 

[Lukydogg]

Originally posted by: EternalOne

You never know how it will sound just by numbers.
This I have to disagree with. Any acoustic engineer can look at the numbers and know exactly how it will sound, and perform. That's what the numbers are for, its not something they made up.

Point taken, and numbers tell exactly what the audio device can do, and only if the numbers are true, but the one were helping to understand car audio is not an acoustic engineer. I will always keep it sorta simple as far as how much audio expertise is known about the one in question. Rydwy already knows about good brands, so my next example is not for him, but for hundreds of others out there who are mislead by numbers.

An example im faced with constantly from those who just go by numbers and dont know too much about brands, quality, or performance. Say some one wants to go strictly by the numbers. Say they have a 800 watt Kicker XPL 15" in a 3 cuft enclosure. Then they know they need to power the sub to get a desired amount of sub-bass needed to get its full potential. So now they are looking at a amp from an unknown brand (or lets say a Formula) which has a power rating of 1000 watts. This amp says all its capabilities on the side of the box. Its flashy, lots of chrome, has a bunch of features, but its cheap, say 200$ new. Now they know a 1000 watt amp will power the 15" 800 watt sub, but to what clarity and performance. Will the amp product 1000 watts of distortion or clarity with a wide range of frequencies? Will it overheat constantly? Will it be just a peice of junk? Now some of us know how much difference a rated amp of 1000 watts from a high end brand, say JL, will perform over a lesser brand that has no internals, small capacitors, no real meat to it. True those numbers from the cheap brand may be there to fool you into buying their product, but none the less its on the product, consumers see the numbers, and buy into it. This huge consumer magnet is posted all over JL's advertising about true ratings. So just from reading stat's on a product can you not know about the quality. Quality is one key, not the key, but it helps.

 

[RyDwy]

this is a picture of the amp and the deck...if you cant see in the picture the amp is alpine...i think its 2channel but dont know...and the deck is sony

sorry but i have some more questions

1. if i have only one speaker will a 2 channel do ok? does chennels mean how many speakers you can have hooked up to it?

2. do you think i should get rid of that alpine and get a big amp to do my one sub and my deck?

3. i have been looking at the JL w6v2 (W7 is more then i want to spend on one speaker) have you tryed that one out?