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Re: EDIT *Resurrected* project: 3.0 UIM on 2.5

Well, took it all apart, put back together as carefully as I could, and still no good so I'm scrapping the project again and putting it back the way Ford intended.
I think the issue is that theres no real way to torque down the adapter plates evenly. They probably need to be welded on. Then I would have to have the whole thing machined flat again and I just dont think I'm interested in going that far.

A scrapped project is a completed project.

I wasnt able to finish putting it together because I need to replace some more injector connectors. I knew I should've just planned on replacing all of them but I didnt listen to myself :(
Ok so I'm confused. You're putting the oval port upper on the split port lower?
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Not anymore...
 

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Why cant you alter the bugzuki plate design and use the upper and lower intake instead of fighting with getting the intake pieces to play nice?
Not anymore...
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Why cant you alter the bugzuki plate design and use the upper and lower intake instead of fighting with getting the intake pieces to play nice?
Because that's not what I wanted to do. I've got no interest in cutting up my heads to move the injectors (not to mention it would be a LOT more and deeper cutting than the 3.0 swap), and I think it would be a detriment to the low end by reducing velocity in the mixing chamber.
 

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Because that's not what I wanted to do. I've got no interest in cutting up my heads to move the injectors (not to mention it would be a LOT more and deeper cutting than the 3.0 swap), and I think it would be a detriment to the low end by reducing velocity in the mixing chamber.
Well alright
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Fully reassembled. Started. Sounded great, I think all is well. I didnt take it out on the road yet but that will happen tonight.
Disappointing to not achieve the goal but ready to move on.

I do however, now believe more than ever that there are significant gains to be had if this could be made to work. The instant power response I was getting with the 3.0 UIM and 65mm TB were pretty incredible, especially considering the major vacuum leaks.

Currently leaning toward a fully custom UIM...
 

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Excuse me, I've been giving this some thought. I hope no one minds the thread revive. my car running pretty hot, and I could sizzle eggs on the intake. often. this is mostly because i'm 90% city driving, but I'm not happy about it. and damn it, my LIM leaks anyway. might as well fidget with it while I change it.

call it a perfectionist's bug, but if we're giving it high intake velocity with a cold air intake, with a pipe that's as straight as possible to minimize restriction... why are we making the intake charge go through all sorts of tight bends right after the TB? I know heads much more experienced and knowledgeable than me designed the 2.5 UIM, but I'm wondering if a 3L intake might flow better than that. what we'd lose down low from the larger area, we might gain with more charge velocity and more flow in the upper RPMs. I'm interested, it really sounds like a fun project.

So, if I can ask, why did you need adapter plates from the LIM to the UIM? they looked pretty thick, too. is it a question of port size? I'm probably wrong on this, because you would probably have done it if it were possible, but I thought about milling some plate to contour the LIM's body, TIG it together, then machine the LIM surface, plate, and welds back to flat again, just so we have more meat to streamline it and to seal it with the 3.0 UIM. would that work? clearance off the injectors might be tight, I don't know. I don't have the parts in front of me to figure it out yet!

just to help visualise...



I'll swing by the junkyard to find a Cougar LIM and an Escape UIM in a bit (gotta fix that vacuum leak somehow!) and I think I'll take a deeper look.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Now your going down the same rabbit hole of a thought process that I did. I hate our factory UIM. It looks cool but is ridiculaously complicated. Theres a whole science around "Acoustic tuning" of the intake manifold, which makes a fun read, but the more I thought about it, the more I tended to believe this type of design is more of an academic exercise for young engineers than anything else. Acoustic tuning really only has benefits at very specific RPM's and if your anywhere else at all except those specific RPM's (or a derivative of them), theres no benefit at all. Then, when you look at the higher performance vehicles out there, the intake manifolds tend to be much simpler. To me, these arguments lead me to believe its a big waste of time.
The adapter plates were necessary because the shapes of the manifolds are significantly different, as are the bolt holes, not to mention the fact that your going from twelve runners to six. Having said that, I would love to see this project come to fruition, but I'm going a different direction. If your interested in pursuing this, I would be happy to send you my adapter plates (and other minor odds and ends I needed to make all the plumbing work) at shipping cost (Which should be cheap, I can put them in a flat padded envelope). That would be a good starting point if you want to machine down a LIM and weld them on.
 

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Resonance tuning is a well known, widely used and effective technique, but usually (as here I think) to boost lower rpm output. There was clearly a lot of work put into beefing up the lower rpm of this engine, and I think it worked out well. Those long low rpm runners undoubtedly reflect off the plenums on the sides, but I doubt there is much of any resonance effect for the short high speed runners, though I could be wrong.

One of the things I like about the 2.5 is how tractable it is, although much of what was done to achieve that is in the way if you are going for max output. What makes a good engine to live with on the street is not the same as on the track.
 

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The torque of a 3.0 is a RIOT. Nadthomas' 3.0 was making only about 10 hp more than my 2.5, but that torque is no joke. Really curious to finally get mine on a dyno and see how it compares to my old 2.5 numbers; the butt-dyno says HOLY SMOKES.
 

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i agree with bennett. when i tell people i have 230 hp they like kinda smirk... until i give them a ride. lol. then theyre like ok its pretty quick. lol. id never own a 2.5 after this
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Go nuts, prove the concept. I dare you!
 
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Discussion Starter #55
Any advice you need, or if you want my parts, let me know.
I'm currently still holding on to my modified LIM, but I'm not really sure I'll ever get around to doing anything with it so I could probably be talked out of it with the right sweet talk. All the other parts I used (except the TB) I have no need for at all so just say the word if you want them.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Yeah, i've run across that before. Its a cool web page and they've got some really cool pictures but dont appear to actually be in production if I remember right. Probably far more expensive than most of us are willing to put into a Cougar if they are in production.
Certainly a home made CF UIM would be possible, theres just a lot of unknowns regarding thermal and vibratory stress that are tough for a shadetree guy to account for. Thats a pretty high uncertainty vs. labor hours ratio.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
:crazy:
 

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Hello, and if we use baekelite instead of aluminum I remember that in old cars it was used a lot and it is very easy to work, not to say a perfect heat insulator
 
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