[VHull03]

"drifted" and almost lost it in town

i'll get some pics of the road that i did this on later tonite... but here's the story: there's this road in town that does a slight right curve then a left U and turns back to the right. this is in the middle of town so there is no banking. i've gotten up to about 45-50 in my coug in the middle of the turn before and wanted to see what it could really handle. the conditions were perfect, dry pavement, warm tires, sun shining... so i head into the initial turn goin about 60-65 by the time i hit the inside of the U. then my back end breaks loose, so i crank the wheel to the right to slide with it and my back end got real close to the outside of the street. i got it corrected and slowed down by the time i got to the ending left turn. i was obviously a little shook cuz i've never broken it loose quite like that before. but it was awesome and extremely fun. oh, and my buddy was in the passenger seat, scared s***less at first, but he thought it was pretty fun too. we went back to check the black marks and found the rear wheels went up on someone's driveway and almost clipped a mailbox!! i'll get pics tonite and show you what i'm talkin about.

edit: i did have someone on the other end of the road makin sure there were no cars or pedestrians, so it was in a semi-"closed course".

 

[B3NN3TT]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

I kind of accidentally went into a 4-wheel drift yesterday. Trying to beat a yellow light through a BIG intersection, and speeding up, then braking thru the turn. As the wheels began to break loose, I let off the brake and it IMMEDIATELY grabbed and sailed rock-solid thru the turn.

Brakes will eff up a turn FAST.

 

[ND4SPD]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

anyone care to give a quick phystics lesson as to WHY that happens? - i know thats what happens, but im not sure i fully understand WHY.

 

[BasSpyder]

RE:"drifted" for my first time!!

why what happens? lose traction?

 

[Ness1216]

RE:"drifted" for my first time!!

read you gran turismo 3 instruction booklet lol it has some skip barber racing tips in it lol, at least mine did.

 

[EricF]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

it happens when the tires reach the limit of traction, combined with other factors such as weight transfer breaking or acceleration the results can be pleasing or dangerous..
One word of advise, if you feel the back end coming out... don't hit the brakes... stay constant on the trottle...

 

[Guest]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

have you been watching too much Initial D????

 

[ND4SPD]

RE:"drifted" for my first time!!

Originally posted by: BasSpyder420
why what happens? lose traction?

Originally posted by: EricF

One word of advise, if you feel the back end coming out... don't hit the brakes... stay constant on the trottle...

well, no...duh :tongue: i know traction loss stuff, i mean THAT - why does braking cause **** to go wrong...

 

[Guest]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

it's all abou tthe inertia, g forces and physics.....and how they play a factor when that kind of stuff happens......and i don't know how to explain any of it...

 

[Guest]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

plus if you slam on the brakes when you're rear is braking loose, you might find yourself locking up and go spinning like a carousel.

 

[sonza68]

RE:"drifted" for my first time!!

Originally posted by: ND4SPD

Originally posted by: BasSpyder420
why what happens? lose traction?

Originally posted by: EricF

One word of advise, if you feel the back end coming out... don't hit the brakes... stay constant on the trottle...

well, no...duh :tongue: i know traction loss stuff, i mean THAT - why does braking cause **** to go wrong...

Basically it comes down to weight transfer. When the car is cornering hard the tires are loaded near their max limit by the cornering forces. If you hit the brakes two things happen. First you are increasing the amount of work the tires need to do, since the tires are using almost all of their potential to corner, this additional loading will cause them to break traction. Second, as you hit the brakes, weight transfers to the front wheels, unloading the rear tires. The rear tires now have less grip and the back end begins to slide. Hitting the gas will reverse this by shifting weight to the rear and hopefully provide enough grip the the rear tires to contol the slide.

Edit: I have used my mad MSPaint skills to try to illustrate the "friction/traction circle" concept as it was explained to me. The circle is the tires limit, anything outside of the circle will result in skidding or spinning.

 

[ND4SPD]

RE: "drifted" for my first time!!

ahhhhhh! makes sense to me!

Thanks Tom! :thumbsup:

it might have seemed like a noob question... and it kinda was, now that i know the reason why... but i just like to know the reason(s) behind why certain things happen, so if i ever find myself in that situation, i know how to deal with it. call it my own personal drivers education - which is what i think more kids need now a days.
I never would have learned that little weight transfer lesson in regular drivers ed... heh, Tom, you should teach a course at the next Cougarfest! :biggrin: (all about autocrossing and car physics)

 

[VHull03]

RE:"drifted" for my first time!!

here's the pics of the road. its kinda hard to really tell what it's like, so i drew a map with my madd photoshopping skillz.

 

[99Cat]

:shrug:

Thanks for the pics...but what the hell do they show??? And I see your closed course with a house every 100 ft. :rofl: But congrats on the drift...get a video camera.

 

[VHull03]

yea, the pics just kinda show what the road is like. i should have got out and walked and taken the pics of it, then you could get more of a sense. just sayin it was a really tight turn to enter at 65.

 

[TennisMenace]

All I know is I'd be pissed as hell if I lived in one of those houses and looked out my front window to see a punk kid "drifting" around my residential street at 65 mph. You really should choose your location better if you're gonna do something like that...

I am always impressed at how well the Cougar handles though...

 

[BrantlyJ]

apparently I'm the only one that thinks this kid is a dumbass??? High rate of speed in a residential neighborhood. I don't care if you have someone on the other end. A kid could run out there and you wouldn't know or be able to react in time. Not only that but if you almost "clipped a mailbox" that means you were close to putting hte rear tires in the ditch. If you would have it the dirt going sideways it's a good chance your car would be on it's roof. Apparently you didn't hear about the 3 kids that died in Des Moines the other week for doing a stunt like you did.
If you feel the need to find the limits of your car why not take some empty 2 liter bottles to an empty parking lot and set up a course. or even better there is a road course in south western Iowa.

 

[ND4SPD]

whoa... crazy pictures! - almost looks like they are fake... cause of the blurring and stuff. but that is a VERY nice road! :bowdown:

i gotta say 'true true' to BrantlyJ... The only thing worse than drag racing on a public road, is pretending the road is a rally course / race track...

I always drive through residential areas thinking that on the other side of every car parked car, tree, or whatever... some mentally retarded kid named 'little Johnny' is waiting to go tearing out onto the street, chasing his big red bouncing ball.
might sound stupid, but i unfortunatly live on a street with a lot of little kids - so i'm used to seeing them not even LOOK before running onto the street, and because i dont go over 20kph, i've never even come close to hitting any of them

Going through that area at 65mph would... well, it wouldn't do anything to me because i would NEVER even dream about doing something like that... even if it was 2am.

i'm glad, VERY glad nothing happend, and even though it doesn't make it right - you had someone at the other end of the road watching for stuff.


next time though - go to a big parking lot or something! heh, and bring a vid. camera! cause i DO like seeing this kinda stuff...

 

[EricF]

visit www.scca.org find a local region...and let'r rip
and let them show you how to drive...everytime I get done autocrossing
I feel a sense of calm.. i have no need to really drive all that fast..

 

[diddy]

another reason why braking in a hard turn messes things up(or at least my theory):

Like whoever it was that pointed it out about weight transfer, it you are making a hard left turn, most weight is on the right front tire.(As stated before). By braking, since most of the weight is transferred to that front wheel, so there is more braking power at that wheel since it is holding the ground the most, and since the front rotors are larger than the rear ones(for the weight transferring reason). So since most of the braking is being performed on that right front wheel, that wheel now becomes a pivot point in which the rest of your car will spin from. and then just take the standard deviation of the total weight divided by speed, then multiplied by the second derivative of the force applied to the right front brake. its that easy