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I have just received the word from my supplier that Cat Cams of britain is finally shipping their aftermarket cams. www.catcams.be Is the manufactures website all normal tappet grind cams for 2.5 and 3.0L are available at 1180+shipping for a set of four. You can also get the high rpm roller cams for 1300 plus shipping. Any grind is available at the locked in price. This is a limited time offer and will only last for the first 5 sets before the price goes up. Because of the delay in shipping the cams from britain deliveries will be here by the 1st or second week in january. I can definitely help with cam selection for any of you who are interested.

The cams have not been dyno tested yet but the 2.5 and 3.0 Seem to be pretty under cammed so gains anywhere from 30-70 horsepower are there depending on the grind and modifications to the car.

So is there any interest here for these?
 
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I'f I was out of college I'd be looking into it... for now, some of the power hungry 3.0 guys might be interested...
Good to know they'll be available though.
Now all I need is to see what kind of results those will net on the 3.0 hybrid.
 
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Originally posted by: Travis
I have just received the word from my supplier that Cat Cams of britain is finally shipping their aftermarket cams. www.catcams.be Is the manufactures website all normal tappet grind cams for 2.5 and 3.0L are available at 1180+shipping for a set of four. You can also get the high rpm roller cams for 1300 plus shipping. Any grind is available at the locked in price. This is a limited time offer and will only last for the first 5 sets before the price goes up. Because of the delay in shipping the cams from britain deliveries will be here by the 1st or second week in january. I can definitely help with cam selection for any of you who are interested.

The cams have not been dyno tested yet but the 2.5 and 3.0 Seem to be pretty under cammed so gains anywhere from 30-70 horsepower are there depending on the grind and modifications to the car.

So is there any interest here for these?
30 to 70 HP gains? Are you seriously suggesting that these cams can give a 170 HP motor up to 41% increase in power? I think once you dyno your car with these untested cams, you will be seriously disappointed. Seriously.

As an example, a set of HKS 272 / 272 cams on an EVO with 300HP stock, produced gains of 26HP and 25ft/lbs. Thats an 8.7% gain.

I would want to see dyno results from a reputable company before spending over a G on cams.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Discussion Starter #4
30 to 70 HP gains? Are you seriously suggesting that these cams can give a 170 HP motor up to 41% increase in power? I think once you dyno your car with these untested cams, you will be seriously disappointed. Seriously.

As an example, a set of HKS 272 / 272 cams on an EVO with 300HP stock, produced gains of 26HP and 25ft/lbs. Thats an 8.7% gain.

I would want to see dyno results from a reputable company before spending over a G on cams.

Just my 2 cents[/quote]

I want to see what they could do on a 3.0 hybrid so I can decide if I'll stick with svt cams or not....
 
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Depending on modifications thats definatly within range. I have some charts of a guy using svo cams on his 3.0 that were smaller then some of these grinds putting out 240 whp. Ofcourse it depends on breathability of the engine. But when your talking about already having 180-190 in bolt ons. Then you add a deep breathing cam and a serious set of headers you should be well on your way to 260 whp.

This is a post by David Z
My first one, The beast
98+ Tarus Block
98 SVT heads, Race PnP, 3L Valves
SVO Race Cam + adj. cam gear
Port matched 3L LIM, SVT Intake, Optimized SVT TB, Pro-M Maf (useless), KKM Filter
MSDS Headers, gutted middle piece, Borla Cat-Back
Lightend SVT Flywheel, Sachs Super clutch
Quaife, Driveshaft Shop Stage 3 shafts
Stock ECU + Fuel System

This config averaged about 234.6hp, I tried gutless LIM and FPR but injectors were maxed out. It hit 241hp few times but knock sensor was going crazy...

Also advertised duration numbers are hard to figure anything out with. With the cam swaps on a zetec people are going from 120-159 thats 25% And the focus engines arnt in near the state of tune as far as intake system goes as an svt conti engine. But cams are definatly A huge 1 peice of the 3 main systems that determine where the car puts down torque.
 

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What's the powerband gonna look like now?? Basically where's the peak (max power) moved to, along with the redline, etc.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by: Travis
Depending on modifications thats definatly within range. I have some charts of a guy using svo cams on his 3.0 that were smaller then some of these grinds putting out 240 whp. Ofcourse it depends on breathability of the engine. But when your talking about already having 180-190 in bolt ons. Then you add a deep breathing cam and a serious set of headers you should be well on your way to 260 whp.
There is absolutely no way that cams can give you a 40+ % increase in power. No way. I have done a considerable amount of research into cams and although they can seriously improve power, particularly torque, they just don’t add the kind of power your claming. On seriously modified motors with the perfect cam combo and expert tuning, you can expect 10% maybe 12%. 40%? No way.

Show me the before and after dyno conducted by an independent and then we’ll talk.

I’m a member of 3Si.org (among other car clubs) and there are plenty of guys there that have installed various kinds of cams in their cars. The biggest gains I have ever seen is 30HP. And that’s on a 320HP twin turbo motor. That’s less then 10% gain. Again, you are not getting 40% with cams. Not now, not now way, not no how.

Now, a 10% gain in power from cams is a good deal. Primarily because the right grind can stretch your peak power across a wider RPM range. That’s why cams are a great mod. They give you more then just the HP; they give you hp gains across a wide range. Cams in conjunction with springs and such can also push your redline way up. Cams are a must do for anyone serious about making power but like I said, there is no way your getting 40%.
 

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well think about it. Your are comparing highperformance cars do the duratec. These high performance cars already have cams which are designed to provide excellent power and tq Stock. The duractec cams Are NOT. they are designed apparently for good mpg and probably going slow over all.

SVT cams are capable of a 10% hp increase on a hyrbid. Now what about some acutal high performance stage 5 cams on a turbo 3.0 duratec race spec engine? Hello?! 40% seems quite possible there.
 
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Your right about cam upgrade on a high performance car not netting the same kind of % that a “lesser” performing car would experience. But 40%?

I definitely don’t want to come across as the Mr. Know it all. But 40% is not going to happen guys. Even on the non-turbo Mitsubishis these guys are getting 15HP gains on a 220 HP motor.

I mean think about it. I have a car with 170HP. I spend a grand on cams and now I’m at 240HP! Just like that? No way.

70 HP don’t come easy on a normally aspirated motor. It would take a boat load more then cams to do it.

I just want to see the before and after dyno runs. I would hate to see anyone spend upwards near $1300 thinking they’ll have 240HP when all they’ll get is 187HP.

Again, I’m not trying to come across as the know it all but I’ve just been around garages for too many years to believe that the Cougar’s 2.5 will see 40% with cams.

But I don’t mind telling you I wish I was wrong. To think that for $1000 I can have a Cougar with 240HP. That would be sweet.
 

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He never said "out of the box, they will net you 40% increase over stock". He said that with the right mods, 30-70hp gains would be possible. Head work and proper tuning with the right cams will net you 70hp easily!
 

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certain motors like a b18a honda motor already have hot cams... hence why aftermarket cams will not provide as good gains... how else do you think a 1.8L naturally aspirated motor makes 160hp.... it takes alot of cam to do it......

our 2.5L motors make 170hp naturally aspirated.... so we need .7L more for only 10hp compared to a honda motor... the secret is in the cam.... that's what vtec is all about.... going from a normal cam to a hot cam.... if you gave the 2.5L engine a hot cam i would expect 200hp easily if not more.... (i know more is involved than just cams, but you usually port your heads and match the intake to your cams)

many cars destined to squeeze every ounce from the factory such as EVOs, Stealths, even a Civic Si have hot cams already... please do not try to compare these motors to the duratec

edit: math to prove my point

1.8L @ 160hp = 88hp/L
2.5L @ 170hp = 68hp/L

2.5L @ 88hp/L = 220hp

220hp/170hp = 30% increase in power

so imagine if i had a similar head port and cam as the 1.8L engine.... i should be doing 220hp... which would equate to a 30% increase over my stock 170hp
 

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Or go the S2000 route, where 2.0L = 240 hp = 120 hp/L

a 2.5L with 120 hp/L = 300 horsepower, baby. That's a 77% increase...

...not going to happen, but hey, we can dream.
 
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Or you can go with the Pontiac Trans Am with the 400 ci V-8. 6.6 litters / 185HP = 28HP/L :biggrin:

Okay guys, I don’t want to get anyone mad at me. At least not over this topic :)

Yes, you can get 70HP gains with cams if you also do a host of other modifications at the same time. But what does that mean? What other mods?

It’s like me saying I developed a custom intake manifold that will give you 100 more HP with the right mods… The “right mods” could be anything. It could be that the right mod is a 90 HP shot of nitrous. Ya see my point?

All I am saying is with just the cams, you will see nowhere near a 40% increase in power. As his statement would lead one to believe. Yes, get your heads race prepped with new everything, cams, exhaust and intake then yes, you may very well see that kind of power increase. But put these cams on a stock car and you’re looking at 15HP tops. That’s all I am saying. Hell, put these cams on a built car and your not going to see a 40% increase if all you did was add the cams between dynos.

Again, I’m not knocking the idea of putting in cams nor am I knocking this guy. I’m just saying, post the before and after dyno charts where all that was done between dynos is the cam replacement and you’ll see far less of a gain then he claims.

The dyno will not lie. :bowdown:
 
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Im not going to argue about the gains you can see with THESE cams because i dont have any evidence. For all i know you could put them in and loose horsepower, but i can tell you that these are the cams that are going to the mondeo rally cars.

He does havea point that i wasnt being very descriptive about what you have to modify to get the power out of these so ill go into it a little bit.

First thing you need to make sure you have is a good place to take in cool air and be able to take in alot of it. A good CAI , box style with a cone inside would be the best, with lots of filter is all you need here.

Intake manifold shouldnt have to be modified at all to make good use of 3 of the 5 grinds available. The last 2 grinds need a diffrent manifold with shorter and larger volumn runners to make best use of it.

Fuel system starts to cut out at the 240 whp mark N/A with 19 lb injectors. So if your shooting higher then this you need to move up to the 24 lb. These should take you as far as n/a can while staying sane.

Head doesnt have to me modified at all. It flows great in stock form Although milling for compression would be advisable with the last 2 grinds as it will start to really eat away at your bottem end having a lower static compression with the big cams.

Exhaust needs to have a header system without cats if possible and a good low restriction muffling system. Youll see the biggest gains from these if you dont have to push through so much restriction. If your running the stock manifold with cats and a standard exhaust this isnt going to kill the effect of the cams but you wont see as much gain.

When you build an engine up you have to work the system up around it you know. Cant take a prostock 15:1 compression ratio 351 block making 4000 horsepower and put the stock intake manifold and exhaust pieces on it and expect it to make as near as much power.

But i mean if your ready to pay 1100 dollars for a fresh set of cams then you probably already have everything you need to take full advantage of these cams. Just basic bolt ons work great. If you have a 190 whp engine and you say for isntance went with the stage 3 set of cams you would probably conquer the 220-230 mark very easily. The best thing about putting a bigger cam in an engine is that it takes everything youv done to the engine to make it breath better and amplifies it. If you put a CAI on a stock cougar and made 6-7 horsepower then took and dropped that onto an engine with a highperformance cam that same cai will net you 9-10. Because the cam makes the engine breath so much better it really can use that extra airflow.

Looking at it from a stand point of just the zetec vrs the duratec. The zetecs are making 230 WHP on a whole liter less N/A no nitrous. The only thing they have available for their car that you dont is cams. Not to say that thats the only thing that is standing in your way of making big numbers. But the most horsepower ever recorded out of stock zetec cams is 140. So once cams hit the market for the zetec they gained 90 horsepower. So power went up 64% from the time that cams wernt available to when they were. If the same percent gain happened to the 2.5 you would see numbers at 310whp N/A and for the 3.0L 350 whp. Ofcourse this is gunna take intake manifolds headers fuel management and alot else to achieve that but this is the way to start getting there. Once these cams are released and people start tinkering with it power levels are going to go way up.

As for dyno`s No one that i know of has any yet and Ill never have a dyno for the 2.5L engine. I only have a 3.0L to dyno with. Thats why im opening these up at an on costs basis. Get some out there and get them turning some incredible numbers and people will come back and snatch them up at MSRP.



:cool:
 
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What you say makes sense. How about this, you ship me a set of these cams, I have a bone stock 2.5 (1999) and I’ll, at my cost, install them. I will pay to dyno before and after the install and post the charts here for all to see. I will then, systematically add mod after mod (intake, headers, cat-back, etc.) and dyno, again, at my cost, between each mod. That way you will have dyno charts to prove your cams are great and they will sell like hotcakes if they produce numbers anywhere near what you’re talking.

You’ll sell a hundred of these things and all it cost you is one set of cams and I’ll do all the research for you. I’m a diehard skeptic. I question everything and I want to see proof of everything. Who better to test your cams? If they indeed perform as you claim, you will have converted a skeptic and, when people see the dynos backing up your claims, you’ll be backordered faster then you can say “Show me the money!”

Deal?
 

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Originally posted by: TheDragon
What you say makes sense. How about this, you ship me a set of these cams, I have a bone stock 2.5 (1999) and I’ll, at my cost, install them. I will pay to dyno before and after the install and post the charts here for all to see. I will then, systematically add mod after mod (intake, headers, cat-back, etc.) and dyno, again, at my cost, between each mod. That way you will have dyno charts to prove your cams are great and they will sell like hotcakes if they produce numbers anywhere near what you’re talking.

You’ll sell a hundred of these things and all it cost you is one set of cams and I’ll do all the research for you. I’m a diehard skeptic. I question everything and I want to see proof of everything. Who better to test your cams? If they indeed perform as you claim, you will have converted a skeptic and, when people see the dynos backing up your claims, you’ll be backordered faster then you can say “Show me the money!”

Deal?
I like that deal! There are a LOT of skeptics and it would be a small price yo pay because the demand for cams could be HUGE.
 
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It sounds like we could make a deal but i dont like taking an 1100 dollar hit. Mayby a comprise id also have to make sure everything is installed properly. And the cams youd be getting would be fairly radical probably the 3`s mayby the 4`s. This means more then likely its going to lope a fair amount. You`ll definatly be loosing your sleeper title in one shot :biggrin: Then again i might buy a 2.5 conti and do the dyno`s myself. For around 1100 i could buy a test bed for my project as well as a vehicle to make things like headers/intake manifolds and other pieces. Which you guys would probably also be interested in.
 

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Ok, assuming we could actually get some decent numbers. Who (that means 3.0L Gods :biggrin: ) wants to a take stab at comparisoning these cams on a 2.5L with some PnP and such, in comparison to the standard 3.0 Hybrid. I would like to know how much work would be expected for both processes (would one be easier or cheaper), projected end results ( i.e. hp/tq ), and COST.

And keeping in mind the ATX also :banghead:

I image most people will say do both, but people who have done the 3.0L generally spend thousands once its all said and done, where as this looks like it could be done for about $2000-2500 including PnP :shrug:
 
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Originally posted by: Travis
It sounds like we could make a deal but i dont like taking an 1100 dollar hit. Mayby a comprise id also have to make sure everything is installed properly. And the cams youd be getting would be fairly radical probably the 3`s mayby the 4`s. This means more then likely its going to lope a fair amount. You`ll definatly be loosing your sleeper title in one shot :biggrin: Then again i might buy a 2.5 conti and do the dyno`s myself. For around 1100 i could buy a test bed for my project as well as a vehicle to make things like headers/intake manifolds and other pieces. Which you guys would probably also be interested in.
I wouldn’t expect you to take an $1100 hit either and we would have to work that out. But if you do the work on your car and post your dynos, that’s not quite the same as a customer installing these cams on his car and posting his dynos. People, such as myself, would still be skeptical.

My car, like I said is bone stock. I was planning on doing a 4G63 transplant but would forgo that if I could build this car to 250+ WHP (normally aspirated and no nitrous). It has 39K on the clock and is in perfect condition. It is the perfect pallet on which to begin testing cams.

As far as what mods to do and in what order, I would be willing to work out some sort of “schedule”. And as far as the mods getting done correctly, rest assured (although you have no reason to believe me) that I am well capable of doing any “bolt on” modification myself. I have been modifying cars for the better part of 20 years.

If you think about it, I would be spending a lot of my money on dynos and mods just to see what kind of performance these cams can deliver. Not to mention I honestly think this would be a phenomenal marketing plan to get a lot of people ordering your cams. Again, if they perform as you say.
 
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