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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)



A few weekends ago NE-CEG / Mass-Conn NECO had a dyno day which turned out to be a 3L shoot out. Not one stock 2.5L equipped contour or cougar was present. Needless to say Aircougar being the local go to contour/cougar mechanic and all around great guy had a great representation of his work run on the dyno.

First some back ground. In the last 3 years Aircougar has completed near 30 engine swaps, 4 atx->mtx swaps and 2 mtx->atx swaps for the members of NE-CEG and Mass/Con NECO. He also has done numerous other repairs and modification for countless peoples. Many including myself are grateful of all the work he has done.

It is the preference of Aircougar Performance to build Ported 3L engines. The main point of this thread will be to document how well Aircougar can port the 3L engines. This should also lend credit to the detail and know how presented in the Ported 3L how-to that Aircougar created.

The dyno used was a Mustang Dyno at ESP in Sterling, MA.

Also all cars as I recall had the standard bolt on mods. I.E. headers, intake, SVT cams and exhaust of some kind.

First up is an untuned 3L. This happens to be Aircougars own SVT. IIRC the engine has ~30k on it and was finished a week before the dyno. The best numbers where 188 hp and 167 ft-lbs torque.



Next up is a tuned 3L. This Cougar is owned by andrewm6097. This engine was ported by Aircougar and installed by andrewm6097. First run the car was lacking fuel on the top end since the tune wasn’t dialed in yet. After I added fuel with the andrewm6097's xcal3 the numbers went up. The best numbers where 198 hp and 171 ft-lbs torque.



Next up is Newcat16 with an untuned 3L. This cougar also had an atx->mtx swap performed at the same time the 3L was installed. The best numbers where 186 hp and 167 ft-lbs torque.



Next up we have cannondalemtb. Aircougar corrected the miss timed engine on this contour. It was also tuned but the tune needs to be redone since it was tuned with the timing being off a little. Also the secondaries crapped out on the dyno so this run was with them pinned open. The best run was 192 hp and 171 ft-lbs torque.




The next car up was another untuned SVT that Aircougar ported the engine. This SVT is owned by Ctmystique and he installed the engine. This SVT is running stock exhaust but has my optimized stock y-pipe on it and a gutted main cat along with msds headers. The best numbers where 180 hp. I can’t read the torque from the copy of the print out so I will update with that later.



Finally we end with my contour. It is a tuned 3L with the NPG turbo kit. At 10 psi it hit 286 hp and 275 ft-lbs torque. 8 psi where I have been running it was 275 hp and ~250 ft-lbs torque. It appears that I can benefit from a 3” exhaust over my current 2.5” exhaust. Aircougar again ported this 3L and we both installed the engine. I installed the turbo kit myself.

 

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when you say ported, you are referring to a 3L with a 2.5 intake correct? it would be interesting to see a full breakdown of the motor mods and milage to see what small things effect the numbers

impressive numbers, but i make the same HP but nearly 20-30 ft/lbs more torque with my full 3L
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
when you say ported, you are referring to a 3L with a 2.5 intake correct? it would be interesting to see a full breakdown of the motor mods and milage to see what small things effect the numbers

impressive numbers, but i make the same HP but nearly 20-30 ft/lbs more torque with my full 3L
yes the heads where openned up or "ported" so that the stock UIM and LIM can be used.

And thats a good point I forgot to add. I do believe everyone was using SVT cams also.

And don't forget this was on a mustang dyno. so add 10% if you want to compare to dynojet numbers.


hopefully everyone can chime in with there exact setup.

mine is the following

2004 Sable 3L w/17k. SVT UIM, LIM, optimized tb, MSDS headers, NPG turbo kit, upgraded bov and fmic, 0.63 a/r presision turbo, 42# injectors, 80mm maf and a 2.5" resonated trubendz borla exhaust.
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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yes the heads where openned up or "ported" so that the stock UIM and LIM can be used.

And thats a good point I forgot to add. I do believe everyone was using SVT cams also.

And don't forget this was on a mustang dyno. so add 10% if you want to compare to dynojet numbers.

hopefully everyone can chime in with there exact setup.

mine is the following

2004 Sable 3L w/17k. SVT UIM, LIM, optimized tb, MSDS headers, NPG turbo kit, upgraded bov and fmic, 0.63 a/r presision turbo, 42# injectors, 80mm maf and a 2.5" resonated trubendz borla exhaust.


Yeah, it the dyno we used is notorious for being much lower than a dynojet dyno and others...

My set-up:

2004 Sable 3L w/ 34k. SVT UIM, LIM, TB, MSDS Headers, 2.5" trubendz Borla resonated exhaust, Yo-dude y-pipe w/ Catco high flow cat, AEM short Ram with custom Cold Air extension, and lightened flywheel mated to SVT clutch

To compare to a Dynojet: my 187 hp and 167 Tq is more like:
205 hp and 183 Tq
 

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I don't mean to rain on the parade because we all know how the "split to oval port" horse has been beaten so many times it's flat...

But... Straight 3L's best every number you put down there (aside from the turbo application). Period. All my engines are doing 190-205HP and 196-209TQ SAE Corrected. To me, for all the extra work involved in grinding and porting to leave roughly 30ft lbs of torque on the table is pretty weak don't you say? I know, it's the pretty factor... Then why break out the dyno graphs? Praising low numbers wasn't the proud thing to do last time I checked, or is everyone so hooked on "STOP" (HAHA didn't even think about that abbreviation) that they fail to see the big picture?

Just an objective opinion from doing this as well professionally.

-Dom
 

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Here's a dyno graph of a 2004 3.0L engine I helped Terry Haines with (phone support) that he built for a customer and had shipped to my dyno tuner for tuning. This is an SAE graph for those nayssayers and it has moderate bolt ons... Intake and Exhaust only.



-Dom

P.S. Dam(n) that graph is huge, apparently VB doesn't handle image scaling?
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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I don't mean to rain on the parade because we all know how the "split to oval port" horse has been beaten so many times it's flat...

But... Straight 3L's best every number you put down there (aside from the turbo application). Period. All my engines are doing 190-203HP and 196-208TQ SAE Corrected. To me, for all the extra work involved in grinding and porting to leave roughly 30ft lbs of torque on the table is pretty weak don't you say? I know, it's the pretty factor... Then why break out the dyno graphs? Praising low numbers wasn't the proud thing to do last time I checked, or is everyone so hooked on "STOP" (HAHA didn't even think about that abbreviation) that they fail to see the big picture?

Just an objective opinion from doing this as well professionally.

-Dom

What dynometer are you using? Are these motors tuned or untuned when dyno'd?

I don't do these installs as a profession. This is my spare time, in my backyard with jack stands and an engine hoist... it takes me less than 2 hours to port-match a motor, and I don't find it to be a lot of extra work.

I have had a lot of people ask what kind of numbers the swaps I have done have put down, and this is the first time we have had any input to answer those questions... there is no parade here, just info of what we did.

I'm glad everyone who is doing their straight 3Ls is putting out great numbers, but these aren't too bad either. after getting a few of these well-tuned from NPG, we should see much better numbers, and that's all we are asking for... We aren't trying to "one-up" anyone else's builds. Just showing what we do. and its just one option for someone looking to do a 3L swap, and if they choose to come to me for their install I will be more than happy to help them out.

buckeye, thank you for your opinion. I would like some info of what is involved with the straight 3Ls you do... I am always willing to learn. I may do a full 3L at some point, but for now, i am not ready to tackle the extra modifications needed for that swap. If you or anyone else has some tips for making the EGR, vacuum and fuel rail mods easier, please PM me with your input... Thanks. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think the dyno in akron where the tuning is done is a dynojet.



Also now that NPG sells there fuel rail mod its easy to handle the fuel rail issue. just needs to be planned ahead of time.
 

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Perhaps if you wanted to know, I would be willing to share (most info, not all..lol). I know it's (STOP) convenience and aesthetics... just hard for me to digest the time and effort... (you'd be suprised that how much work I do to convert full 3L's amounts the same amount of time you spend in headwork...) I do however have 7 years 3.0L experience in these engines (besides the experience from working on them and 2.5L's as a Ford tech when they first came out in 1995 (2.5L)/1996 (3.0L) ). Normally the fuel harness, COP harness and EGR tube consume about 2 whole hours of time from start to finish.

All my graphs are fully tuned... Honestly I wouldn't show un-tuned graphs, my engines are not road ready when built (untuned) unless you (purposely) like your throttle as an on-off switch :rofl:. Besides I like showing the potential it has, not what it is half-done. No disrespect.... But I warranty my engines, I can't have them running too rich or too lean and blowing up (that's not very good for the rep - never lost an engine I've built (in a customer's car or my own) in 7 years. I've witnessed plenty of those over the years with half attempts and cheap installs.

Akron Horsepower and Backstreet Performance (my 2 SCT tuners) use Dynojet 248's.

-Dom
 

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Nice numbers on the ported motors.

As for full 3L tips:
EGR: Cut the 2.5L and 3L EGR tubes and use a 1/2" compression fitting to join them. Finding the right cutting spot is key so the fitting fits nicely.
Fuel rail: There are no real short cuts here unless you pick up the NPG parts. I've always brazed my rails. Cut each end of the 3L rail off. Custom bend stainless tubing for the return line around the front of the intake. Braze on the 2.5L rail FPR and connections.

Personally I've always been partial to the ported motors. I've built a ton of each version. Even on the dyno after each was tuned the ported motors seemed to outperform the full 3L's. Of course my full 3L motor builds were all 01-02 motors so maybe the new 04+ motors are better.
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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Perhaps if you wanted to know, I would be willing to share (most info, not all..lol). I know it's (STOP) convenience and aesthetics... just hard for me to digest the time and effort... (you'd be suprised that how much work I do to convert full 3L's amounts the same amount of time you spend in headwork...) I do however have 7 years 3.0L experience in these engines (besides the experience from working on them and 2.5L's as a Ford tech when they first came out in 1995 (2.5L)/1996 (3.0L) ). Normally the fuel harness, COP harness and EGR tube consume about 2 whole hours of time from start to finish.

All my graphs are fully tuned... Honestly I wouldn't show un-tuned graphs, my engines are not road ready when built (untuned) unless you (purposely) like your throttle as an on-off switch :rofl:. Besides I like showing the potential it has, not what it is half-done. No disrespect....

Akron Horsepower and Backstreet Performance (my 2 SCT tuners) use Dynojet 248's.

-Dom

None taken... and as a business, you are able to give your customer the entire package wrapped up with tuning, which is awesome. I wish I was able to do that as well.

And I am sure with a little experience doing those mods, I could get good enough to get them done in a timely fashion comparable to the head porting.

Any info would be most helpful, and i wouldn't expect all your info... LOL ;)
Thanks Dom.
 

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Nice numbers on the ported motors.

As for full 3L tips:
EGR: Cut the 2.5L and 3L EGR tubes and use a 1/2" compression fitting to join them. Finding the right cutting spot is key so the fitting fits nicely.
Fuel rail: There are no real short cuts here unless you pick up the NPG parts. I've always brazed my rails. Cut each end of the 3L rail off. Custom bend stainless tubing for the return line around the front of the intake. Braze on the 2.5L rail FPR and connections.

Will share tips:

EGR: Buy 1999 Taurus 3.0L EGR tube from Bill Jenkins for $30 and heat one spot to conform (approx 1/4") bend to route correctly. This is a one-piece factory looking install then (instead of cutting, splicing or other...).
Fuel Rail: We NEVER braze a fuel rail - Went that way once about 4 years ago on my own (trials) - Too big of a liability (they will crack and leak - it's not if, but when). We convert the system to returnless back at the fuel tank and install a 2002 Escape fuel rail (which the fuel feed hose snaps right into without any modifications).
Vacuum:Use the 1996-2005 Taurus vacuum line system. It works perfectly and only needs a couple of changed areas (i.e. our fuel rail dampner and such) which requires heating vacuum tubes to conform to the curves needed and slipping on the connector end). Simple when done. I can show pics if needed of this mod.

Just a few tips...

-Dom
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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Nice numbers on the ported motors.

As for full 3L tips:
EGR: Cut the 2.5L and 3L EGR tubes and use a 1/2" compression fitting to join them. Finding the right cutting spot is key so the fitting fits nicely.
Fuel rail: There are no real short cuts here unless you pick up the NPG parts. I've always brazed my rails. Cut each end of the 3L rail off. Custom bend stainless tubing for the return line around the front of the intake. Braze on the 2.5L rail FPR and connections.

Personally I've always been partial to the ported motors. I've built a ton of each version. Even on the dyno after each was tuned the ported motors seemed to outperform the full 3L's. Of course my full 3L motor builds were all 01-02 motors so maybe the new 04+ motors are better.
Thanks for the tips. I think the fuel rail is what i am most worried about... I have not tried brazing at all, and I hate the thought of fuel leaks!!! :eek:

Are you modifying a taurus/sable fuel line or using an escape line? Most of the motors I work on are taurus/sable ones. I'm sure there are pics somewhere of what needs to be done, but a PM would be awesome if you had some time to send them, Chris... (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more :rofl:)
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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Will share tips:

EGR: Buy 1999 Taurus 3.0L EGR tube from Bill Jenkins for $30 and heat one spot to conform (approx 1/4") bend to route correctly. This is a one-piece factory looking install then (instead of cutting, splicing or other...).
Fuel Rail: We NEVER braze a fuel rail - Went that way once about 4 years ago on my own (trials) - Too big of a liability (they will crack and leak - it's not if, but when). We convert the system to returnless back at the fuel tank and install a 2002 Escape fuel rail (which the fuel feed hose snaps right into without any modifications).
Vacuum:Use the 1996-2005 Taurus vacuum line system. It works perfectly and only needs a couple of changed areas (i.e. our fuel rail dampner and such) which requires heating vacuum tubes to conform to the curves needed and slipping on the connector end). Simple when done. I can show pics if needed of this mod.

Just a few tips...

-Dom
Awesome info, Dom... thanks for helping out a fellow builder. Really appreciate it. Maybe this winter I will attempt this swap, and see what results I get.
 

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I'm not the "evil" guy most make me out to be...lol. When you get ready to do one, PM me on FCO or email me at the shop address and I will set you up completely with all the info.

-Dom
 

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Forgot to mention that we also have the 2000+ Returnless cars done as well (ala SlowCat) for the returnless 3L rail with electronic pressure transducer. His car is at the tuner's right now, will have more info about it later this week when I expect to get it back. It was our first "newer" cat to get a full 3.0L conversion with factory returnless (it wasn't so hard, only a few adjustments and a different rail).

-Dom
 

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3L Install Maestro
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Will share tips:

EGR: Buy 1999 Taurus 3.0L EGR tube from Bill Jenkins for $30 and heat one spot to conform (approx 1/4") bend to route correctly. This is a one-piece factory looking install then (instead of cutting, splicing or other...).
Fuel Rail: We NEVER braze a fuel rail - Went that way once about 4 years ago on my own (trials) - Too big of a liability (they will crack and leak - it's not if, but when). We convert the system to returnless back at the fuel tank and install a 2002 Escape fuel rail (which the fuel feed hose snaps right into without any modifications).
Vacuum:Use the 1996-2005 Taurus vacuum line system. It works perfectly and only needs a couple of changed areas (i.e. our fuel rail dampner and such) which requires heating vacuum tubes to conform to the curves needed and slipping on the connector end). Simple when done. I can show pics if needed of this mod.

Just a few tips...

-Dom
I've never had a fuel rail leak and most of my customers drive their full 3L's daily and have now for a few years. I use a high temp silver braze which has always worked great. It's not normal braze.
 

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The Real RockNRolla...
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I'm not the "evil" guy most make me out to be...lol. When you get ready to do one, PM me on FCO or email me at the shop address and I will set you up completely with all the info.

-Dom
thank you again! That would be a huge help. I am now very curious as to what you do to convert the return style tank to returnless...
and are you doing COPs, or sticking with the coil pack? for these straight 3L swaps...

I'll PM you at some point, just curiousity is getting my brain working! I am now debating going full 3L with SVT cams for my Vortech SC set-up, as I feel that the linear increase in boost with rpms would be smoother without the secondaries... decisions, decisions! :)
 
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