3L's done... gonna need a tune.

[AndyMan]

First i would like to say hots off to Trevor, Kevin, and most certainly Dan... he is definetly the man!.. X10

I will post of some pics of the install and the 3L later on in the pic section later....

But we need to discuss this tune.... mind u i have a 2001 mtx

PRIOR.. to the 3L install... i had the flowing..

SVT uim/lim/tb
GMK CAI
Underdrive Pulley
Headers and Yipipe/ catback exhaust
aftermarket OEM clutch AND fidanza lightweight flywheel
... NO TUNING at all....
now... i have ALWAYS had idling problems.... usually at resting idle between 600-900 rpms i normally gor surges and sometimes even just stalled off... sadly i got use to it...

AFTER THE 3L..
all the mods above are put on...
PLUS... PnP 3L heads for svt intakes
SVT cams
clevite bearings
NO secondaries.. ( wielded shut )
19Lbs injectors... ( i think atleast)

The car started up okay at first.... let it idle for 10-15 minutes... then we took it for a test drive and all hell broke loose.. the car couldn't idle correctly at all... Dan hooked it up to a Diagonstic laptop and saw the fuel injectors or showing 20% on the front bank and -20% on the last bank.... it was horrible looking.

so we were thinking the fuel pump was acting up or the 19Lbs were messed up...
so Dan put the 17lbs back on.. ( in less then 7 mins)
started it up and took a drive... The car idled alot better then with the 17bs on.. but still very roughly....

The ride was very rough UNTIL 3500 rpms.. and felt like a boost in power and ran smoothly ONLY after 3500 rpms...
BUT ... there are no secondaries... it should run smooth all the way right???
here is a freeze frame of the idle with the 17lbs on


So what happens now?.. from what i read on here... the 01 systmes ECU does not responds well to mods as from the 99 ECUs that seem to run better after a 3L install with out a Tune...

so any advice or info with the tune....
Dan will probly come on here and explain this alot better of what was happening...

thanks for the time
-Andy

[ilovemycar]

You said you don't have secondaries at all right? Do you still have the box hooked up? If not the car will put inself into limp mode. You have to at least leave the box plugged up until you can get an Xcal or some other sort of tune to get the IMRC turned off in the code.

That's the first thing that popped into my head. It should run fine no matter how many mods you have if you still have the same MAF and same injectors. It would just start to run lean up top if the 17#ers couldn't supply enough fuel.

[DanG]

You pretty much nailed it, Andy... The IMRC box is GONE, the connector is just tucked away. I got the expected P1530, but other than that the car ran quite well.

The theory I have is that the ECU still thinks the secondaries are closed <3500RPMs, so it has timing and fuel mixed as such. Trouble is, the car's breathing full bore all the time. It's only after the ECU adds "open IMRC" fuel and spark that the engine takes off like a shot.

Those "cream colored" injectors didn't run worth a damn- Like Andy said- +20% long-term trim on one bank, -20% on the other. It was also missing and bogging on tip-in. Blinking CEL at one point- Just generally unhappy.

Hopefully War or someone with more in-depth tuning knowledge can chime in. I lean away from the "limp home" mode theory because the fans came on only at 215*F, and off at 200*F. IIRC, limp home turns the fans on full-time.

Glad you're happy with the install, Andy- That's the "blingiest" motor I've ever built!

[fordrule]

go buy a xcal 2 with the prp. my secondaries and imrc was removed . but tuning was done . aaron added timing and fuel with the svt cams and svt inj. she is so nice after it was tune...... i just wish i could drive her

[AndyMan]

Originally Posted by fordrule

go buy a xcal 2 with the prp. my secondaries and imrc was removed . but tuning was done . aaron added timing and fuel with the svt cams and svt inj. she is so nice after it was tune...... i just wish i could drive her

intresting... so was urs surging the the rpm at idle with u had urs installed? and the tune took care of that too?

[GrandMasterKhan]

where the bad injectors the ones which orignally came with the 3.0 (ie the ones i gave you?) its weird that the whole bank was bad. That doesnt make sense. According to what was written on the side of the injector they are 21lb injectors, which is a pretty large change from stock. (thus maybe causing an issue if your using the oem ecu tune)

Also. Since you removed the secondaries thats exactly why your ecu hates you so much below 3500rpms.

[StealthyWeasel]

Check the wiring harness on the P/S rear valve cover- every 3L/motor swap I've done, I've seen that harness become loose and shut down whole banks of injectors and etc. The clip on the wiring harness side is very prone to breaking, and breaks almost every time. Push the wires together (all three, top bottom middle) as tightly as they can go, and the problem may go away. There is a strong possibility that is the problem.

[AndyMan]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

where the bad injectors the ones which orignally came with the 3.0 (ie the ones i gave you?) its weird that the whole bank was bad. That doesnt make sense. According to what was written on the side of the injector they are 21lb injectors, which is a pretty large change from stock. (thus maybe causing an issue if your using the oem ecu tune)

Also. Since you removed the secondaries thats exactly why your ecu hates you so much below 3500rpms.

so they are 21 pounders ???. i thought they were 19s..
that could be why it couldn't acclerate right at all then... i know the ECU should be able to adjust to 19s... but maybe not to the 21#ers...

anywho...
when the engine first started with the 3L injectors in... the car idling perfectly for 10 mins.... mean while is was clearing out all the smoke and burning all the residue stuff... which was a good sign....
ONLY when we drove it is when the car was EXTREMLY lean.... and had it hooked up to a dignositc laptop which was showing -20% on the last bank and 20plus % on the 1st bank... it was horrible and i didn't feel i could make it back to NC in this condition...

so Dan put the stock 17s back on and the car still rode rough... BUT.. it wasn't showing the -20% like the orginal 3L injectors were showing.. So that means no going above 4000 rpms with the 17s on...

Mind u i drove back to NC today and already have 300 plus miles on the 3L already so i am almost at break-in with the 17#ers on.

So what do i put on the car for the tune then?... the orginal 21lbs or find some 19lbs ?????

[fordrule]

there should be a PN on the side of the injectors contact bill j to find out which inj they are. 19's are the smallest i would go on the 3L. I have the inj from my 3L but have not installed them. i still have the green svt 19's installed. I bought my xcal2 and prp from brenspeed. if u buy them sepperate its more expensive but brent will work with you. you can also contact warmonger(nautalus performance). HE is awesome with his tunes

if those are 21lbs go with the 21's. i was told they could be 19's. then ur still good. I had the xcal 2 before i removed the secondaries and imrc. my imrc went bad and i had them removed and then boughta prp and had aaron tune my car for me. hell aaron lives in South carolina

[AndyMan]

awsome....
so i guess the first thing i should do is get the injectors tested to see what they are then... IF they are 21s that could explain alot on why it couldn't run right.... Then put those on right before it gets tuned... ...

question though Fordrule; ... did u have RPM surges at idle before u were tuned like the graph in the first post shows???