tuning with/or out secondaries

[nandalora]

Don't blame yourself, I think we're all a little crazy

[warmonger]

Originally Posted by nandalora

Fastcougar: I'm not argueing the use of IMRC, I am argueing how you said they used VCT in the 2.0L and how they were too cheap to put it on the 2.5L. We got IMRC and that is way better. The VCT on the 2.0L is no where near the technology of the VVT in the Mazda 6. That's a more useful form.

Warmonger: You had IMRC working on your turbo 3.0L, correct? If so, did you change the secondary's opening point to match the turbo application better?

IMRC opening point is less of an issue with the turbo because the air is forced.
I set it to open just a bit lower, at about 3400rpm.
The reason IMRC was still a benefit on my car was because I had a huge turbo on my car with a .82 housing and it din't really start spooling until 3K rpm. With the newer headers and piping I designed I got lower spoolup time so I was building a few psi under WOT in 2500+ range after that. But cruising around town it restricted airflow and kept part throttle driveability MUCH better than had I pulled them IMO.
I also proved that they weren't stealing power either.

Also, VVT when used for emissions purposes is not the same as VVT used to make high performance. One way can save gas and one way can cost more gas. So VVT equiped engines can outperform IMRC engines in that the VVT can reduce emission and improve economy when you are normal driving and then improve power when you want to drive fast. If I had to choose between VVT and IMRC I'd pick a tuned in VVT car but I'd prefer to have both systems for a very broad power band.

[RodneyBur]

Originally Posted by fordrule

guess i was crazy

Crazy, nahhh. I just thought it was a little wierd that you started a thread here and expected it not to get off topic.

[fordrule]

i was expecting some sense to come out of the topic, like what points to change on the xcal........ tuning info

[fordrule]

since i dont have the PRP, should i add some timing to the 0-2k on the xcal? since i only get to drive the car for 10 more days i was looking for a way to get more performance and drivability since they are pinned open.

[cpapashley]

Just to throw a pv among the cats.

I am in the process of modding my engine 2.5l duratec in my MPV (yes MPV). Being downunder in aussie land I am getting a custom built set of headers to fit should be getting the car back today

I have a simple DIY CAI into the wheel well with the standard airbox in (K&N panel filter inside) place. I have started to look at ecu's over here that will help extract a few more benefits from the changes I have made. One comment put to me was to remove the secondaries in the intake. I didn't think this was a good idea, but reading your posts it would seem to be a really silly idea.

My problem is that the ecu may not be able to cope with the secondaries, have the guy looking into it at the moment. So what aftermarket ecu's can cope with the duratec 2.5l secondaries (and I guess the big question is would they work with the MPV engine which only has slight changes in the head/compression area to what sits in the cougar).

I am trying hard to stay on topic of tuning with/or out secondaries

Edit: Just had another question from the ecu guy, which I am afraid just stumps me. Can anybody help with this question:

"The real question is the crank/cam angle sensor waveforms, which aren't shown on diagrams"

The diagrams were mainly ECU wiring diagrams from the workshop manual for the PV.

So any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

[fordrule]

i am going to be removing mine when i get home and jb welding the holes. i plan on getting the PRP to go with the xcal2 i got. remove the butterflies, rods and the imrc. i want to see if i can port match the LIM to the UIM and make them smooth like butta....

[RodneyBur]

I would suggest using QUICK STEEL. It is a little easier to work with and dries VERY QUICKLY. You won't have to wait around a day just for it to dry.

[warmonger]

Originally Posted by cpapashley

Just to throw a pv among the cats.

I am in the process of modding my engine 2.5l duratec in my MPV (yes MPV). Being downunder in aussie land I am getting a custom built set of headers to fit should be getting the car back today

I have a simple DIY CAI into the wheel well with the standard airbox in (K&N panel filter inside) place. I have started to look at ecu's over here that will help extract a few more benefits from the changes I have made. One comment put to me was to remove the secondaries in the intake. I didn't think this was a good idea, but reading your posts it would seem to be a really silly idea.

My problem is that the ecu may not be able to cope with the secondaries, have the guy looking into it at the moment. So what aftermarket ecu's can cope with the duratec 2.5l secondaries (and I guess the big question is would they work with the MPV engine which only has slight changes in the head/compression area to what sits in the cougar).

I am trying hard to stay on topic of tuning with/or out secondaries

Edit: Just had another question from the ecu guy, which I am afraid just stumps me. Can anybody help with this question:

"The real question is the crank/cam angle sensor waveforms, which aren't shown on diagrams"

The diagrams were mainly ECU wiring diagrams from the workshop manual for the PV.

So any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

I think AEM aftermarket ecu's can be made to work and to power secondaries but that could just be rumor.

I would not do that if I were you though. I would just get an ecu and wiring harness from a cougar as you mentioned and then wire it up in your car. No more work than an aftermarket ecu and already has the correct parameters for a 2.5L duratec engine.

If you can get it the SVT Contour ecu/pcm is the best one to get IF you aren't going to run a chip. If you run a chip or flash the pcm with a new tune then get the standard Cougar/Contour/Mystique ecu/pcm.

I don't know the answer on the sensor waveforms that could be used for the aftermarket ECU but I suspect you could just hook up an oscilloscope and see what it looks like.

I'd definitely blow all that off and use a Ford PCM and just chip/flash it.

[cpapashley]

Thanks so much for the answer warmonger, that has been very helpful and I do think that your advice is very sound.

I might start another thread as I still have many questions and don't want to go waaayyyyy of topic (which I have a habit of doing)