What'd they think was going on there, some kind of day spa?

[BigBalledOX]

I bet this hard-hitting reporting came from the same people who concluded Bin Laden was either alive or dead.

[ND4SPD]

Jamal Halaby and Pamela Hess, Associated Press Writers

yup, real geniuses at work... do not disturb.

[thousandlegs]

[branchedout]

bbox: i think that was the point -- nobody thinks its some kind of day spa (what the administration would like the American public and the public at large to believe), and this was their way of trying to prove that point to them with medical evidence that the detainees are in fact (or were, whatever you chose to believe) being tortured at the hands of Americans. unfortunately they also report it in a context thats designed to make it sound so incredibly horrible and illegal. personally i think torture shouldn't be used, because its cruel and inhumane, but at the same time, I also don't think that putting somebody in a cell and trying to befriend them and give them special privledges for months at a time until the decide to talk is the best way to get timely intelligence, either. I'm also able to accept the notion that you can't always have your cake and eat it too, so put quite blunty, so what if we have to torture a few terrorists to prevent another attack against Americans or our allies??? I do kind of prefer the idea of rendition over americans actually getting their hands dirty, though, but whatever is necessary at the time...

legs: why the tears?

[thousandlegs]

I get upset over people pleading for the rights of people who are in detainment facilities like gitmo. The people/terrorists/insurgents don't like the American way of life, our values, or our beliefs but they feel like they are entitled to a fair shake in our courts. I know that this article is specifically about physical and emotional torture but the principle is still the same. To coin a well worn cliche sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. There aren't, to my knowledge, any documented cases of death as a result of "torture" by American troops but there are videos of Americans and Brits and others having their heads lobbed off. You can't fight animalistic behavior with reason and diplomacy.

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by thousandlegs

but they feel like they are entitled to a fair shake in our courts.

Right, so **** that whole habeas corpus thing eh? That is completely and utterly ANTI-American...

Originally Posted by branchedout

so what if we have to torture a few terrorists to prevent another attack against Americans or our allies???

I'm always reminded of one instance during the whole waterboarding investigations... Some man in a suit who was being questioned saw nothing wrong with it until he was asked by the committee flat-out "if water boarding was done to YOU, would you consider it torture?". To which he muttered "well, i suppose i would feel it was."

That's my problem with it... its all well and good to say "yeah! **** them... if it will prevent another attack, so what!' But what if you were on the receiving end?

[thousandlegs]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

I'm always reminded of one instance during the whole waterboarding investigations... Some man in a suit who was being questioned saw nothing wrong with it until he was asked by the committee flat-out "if water boarding was done to YOU, would you consider it torture?". To which he muttered "well, i suppose i would feel it was."

That's my problem with it... its all well and good to say "yeah! **** them... if it will prevent another attack, so what!' But what if you were on the receiving end?

if i was on the giving end of an attack against innocents then i suppose that i would have gotten my comeuppance. they don't feel like they've done any wrong though so they feel tortured. waterboarding doesn't kill though.

[ND4SPD]

But thats the problem.. you don't HAVE to be on the giving end of an attack anymore...

Anyone, anytime for whatever reason can be plucked off the street and detained without access to a lawyer, not charged, or anything... pay attention! :P there have been a number of neco discussions that have covered this whole mess... Search for BBox and the word "gulag"

[Danef150]

I immagine you would have to be doing something suspicious beforhand being plucked up...I dont believe our government just picks people randomly and detains them. It would be pointless to try and get information out of people you thought had no information to begin with. So again i immagine you would have to look quite suspicious in the first place. Which i think in the end keeps most of us in the world keeping our noses clean quite safe. Im not worried about the people who are allready involved in illegal activities. Sorry Im not.

[branchedout]

Matt, you bring up an excellent point, I think gitmo, and holding detainees for an indefinite amount of time without any charges or any competent legal representation is wrong! I just think that if we know they have information we need to protect innocent life, we need to do whatever we need to do to get the information -- then charge them or let them go.

As far as being on the receiving end of it, come on! Sure being waterboarded would be terrifying (this is the idea, is it not?), but do you honestly buy into that nonsense that if we publicize what techniques we use they might be used against us? All's that would do is teach people how to prepare for them if they were used against them. If an enemy captures a us soldier, theres a fine chance that he'll be tortured far worse than what we'd ever do to one of them. We at least make a point in trying to keep the guy alive. Our enemies can be absolutely ruthless.