What'd they think was going on there, some kind of day spa?

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by Danef150

I immagine you would have to be doing something suspicious beforhand being plucked up...I dont believe our government just picks people randomly and detains them. It would be pointless to try and get information out of people you thought had no information to begin with. So again i immagine you would have to look quite suspicious in the first place. Which i think in the end keeps most of us in the world keeping our noses clean quite safe. Im not worried about the people who are allready involved in illegal activities. Sorry Im not.

I agree... I would hope that to show up on the radar, you would HAVE to be doing something to cause that. What worries me, are those cases of mistaken identity...

A minor thing even happened to a member of MCneco's chapter if I remember correctly - Someone with the same name, and same date of birth was on the US customs watch list, and it caused a whole mess of problem for the poor guy, he was detained, questioned, and it was up to HIM to prove that he was innocent. Obviously not as severe, but it was "lucky" that the criminal was just involved in fraud and not anything worse.

It just strikes me as something that could get out of hand very easily.

Originally Posted by branchedout

Matt, you bring up an excellent point, I think gitmo, and holding detainees for an indefinite amount of time without any charges or any competent legal representation is wrong! I just think that if we know they have information we need to protect innocent life, we need to do whatever we need to do to get the information -- then charge them or let them go.

As far as being on the receiving end of it, come on! Sure being waterboarded would be terrifying (this is the idea, is it not?), but do you honestly buy into that nonsense that if we publicize what techniques we use they might be used against us? All's that would do is teach people how to prepare for them if they were used against them. If an enemy captures a us soldier, theres a fine chance that he'll be tortured far worse than what we'd ever do to one of them. We at least make a point in trying to keep the guy alive. Our enemies can be absolutely ruthless.

Very true, I know its pretty much a fact that torture is absolutely used by other places... its really a subject that I'm not sure how to debate in depth because my "can't we all just get along?" question just dooooooesn't work in the real world.

But I dunno, even if the techniques were widely knowm, do you honestly think anyone could "prepare" themselves to be zapped with a car battery? Waterboarding, the best preparation you could do would be holding your breath, but eventually you would have to breathe.

If they really are guilty, put them on trial, prove their guilt... THEN you can lock them up for life (legally)

ugh, its all just such a mess

[MOMO]

Originally Posted by thousandlegs

I get upset over people pleading for the rights of people who are in detainment facilities like gitmo. The people/terrorists/insurgents don't like the American way of life, our values, or our beliefs but they feel like they are entitled to a fair shake in our courts. I know that this article is specifically about physical and emotional torture but the principle is still the same. To coin a well worn cliche sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. There aren't, to my knowledge, any documented cases of death as a result of "torture" by American troops but there are videos of Americans and Brits and others having their heads lobbed off. You can't fight animalistic behavior with reason and diplomacy.

You sir, are a prime candidate for doing some research before posting something like that. Look up words like "extraordinary rendition" by our government.
and here is another one. "the real reason Islamic terrorists hate America" and another one "why taking away detainees habeus corpus is un American".
Oh, and "real documented death from resulting from torture from our detention camps".

And have you even consider that some of those detainees might not be guilty?

[ND4SPD]

I <3 you Rich.

[Danef150]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

I agree... I would hope that to show up on the radar, you would HAVE to be doing something to cause that. What worries me, are those cases of mistaken identity...

A minor thing even happened to a member of MCneco's chapter if I remember correctly - Someone with the same name, and same date of birth was on the US customs watch list, and it caused a whole mess of problem for the poor guy, he was detained, questioned, and it was up to HIM to prove that he was innocent. Obviously not as severe, but it was "lucky" that the criminal was just involved in fraud and not anything worse.

It just strikes me as something that could get out of hand very easily.


ugh, its all just such a mess

I believe that person was Puck Puck...Cant remember but it was someone quite well known on the forums. Anyways yes it is a mess...In the end i dont think much will ever become of this whole scandal...Its not all that scandalous to me.

MOMO cut the guy some slack his ideas werent that far off. Why the Islamic terrorists hate the US lets see during the cold war we supported one side while russia supported the other. Pretty much like everything thath happened during the cold war. We got involved with other people conflicts to stop the spread of communism and are not paying the price. Well im glad we tried to stop the spread of communism. Im sad the rest of the world hates us for it. Then again people are short sighted and forget about how the past influinces the future. and if the reason islamics hate the US is because of giving the Jews Isreal after WWII well think about it...for a minute. We took the land back from Germany...No one but the Germans were in posession of it, and well the Jewish people had just been decimated, the United States and the rest of the UN made what seemed like a good decision at the time.

[thousandlegs]

Originally Posted by MOMO

You sir, are a prime candidate for doing some research before posting something like that. Look up words like "extraordinary rendition" by our government.
and here is another one. "the real reason Islamic terrorists hate America" and another one "why taking away detainees habeus corpus is un American".
Oh, and "real documented death from resulting from torture from our detention camps".

And have you even consider that some of those detainees might not be guilty?

If I had known that I needed documentation to back up my statements then I would have done the research. But I didn't. I just gave an opinion. I specifically said that the statements were "to my knowledge" however limited it may be. And this is the second time that you, MOMO, have jumped me for voicing an opinion that wasn't completely based in fact. AND it's the second time that ND4SPD has followed the comment with I <3 you Rich. Not cool.

[BigBalledOX]

Originally Posted by thousandlegs

If I had known that I needed documentation to back up my statements

People like you are exactly the reason this country is going to ****.

[thousandlegs]

Originally Posted by BigBalledOX

People like you are exactly the reason this country is going to ****.

Why the F would you say that? I've seen plenty of ridiculous statements on this forum. I can't have an opinion?

[branchedout]

anyone?

and legs, it IS an online forum, people are going to say lots of things, many times unnecessary/unjustified/rude/etc. etc., its just the way it is. you shouldn't take most of it personally. matt and rich are both cool dudes, they just happen to disagree with you. and, well, bbox, he's just bbox

[MOMO]

Thousandlegs,
im not jumping on you. It seemed to me that you had very little information on the subject you had your opinion on . While we all have a right to our opinions, When you can justify your opinion with some support, it will sound lot better than opinion based on ignorance.

for example, if i said i hate tomatoes because im allergic to the things in tomatoes, you might say, oh, i agree with your opinion of hating tomatoes...

but if i said, i hate tomatoes because the color reminds me communism, you might think that im unreasonable in my hatred of tomatoes.

In your case, you made your opinion known clear because you think they hate us for our way of life and we cant change their "animalistic" behavior, etc etc...
But you really dont know if any of your assumptions are true... Thats why i told you to search for truth.

[thousandlegs]

I know, gang, I apologize. It's been a bit weird for me lately and the forum has kind of been a place to have a good read and laugh and I was just caught off guard. I now it's a forum etc etc...

I didn't mean to get up in arms. I've had a good chat with Rich {in the past} and I revere his opinion...guess that's what set me off. I like the folks on here. Even bbox has his merits.