Avert Thine Eyes (OR: Andyman S/C Build Thread) ***FINISHED!!!***

[gamiller]

Originally Posted by AndyMan

First test stock MAF/ 19lbs injectors...NA
then run svt90 MAF/ 38lbs injectors... NA

see what then happens

Well, Andy, that sounds like a good plan, and it's got to be cheaper than paying Excessive to troubleshoot. If you still have the tune you were running before the SC install, then I'd agree that your first test should be reverting to stock and making sure the engine still runs alright with the 19s and the stock MAF. Then onto the next test, still NA, but with the 38s and the 90mm MAF using a Nautilus NA tune, if available. Only after that would I see about getting an SC tune. Test One and Test Two should tell you if the problem is with air flow through the FMIC and such. Good luck!

[DanG]

Okay- A couple of today as well as some and some .

Started this morning, innocently enough, at ~9am at Excessive Motorsports in Manassas. I arrived before our 10am appointment for tuning. I used that time to change the oil & spark plugs, since they were both so heinously contaminated with fuel (3/4 a tank in 70 miles!) due to the bad tune.

The quest for a level idle went AROUND the 90mm Lightning MAF- The difference in pipe diameter was too great to get a stable signal- Something akin to what Joey saw with his E-mailed logs. Even with the screen in place and the MAF as far from the 90° bend as possible, the signal just kept bouncing around and it wasn't able to find idle.

So, we decided on a different route- Minimize the difference in pipe diameter differences into and out of the MAF. This was accomplished by way of a used (more about this later) Pro-flow MAF that Chris (the tuner) had laying around. As an experiment, we swapped it in, he loaded the MAF's tables into the XCal, flashed the ECU, and voila- Steady idle. Still heinously rich, but at least the idle wasn't hunting. Now it was just a matter of tuning down the fuel. So we thought.

On to the rollers! We swapped in the dyno's wideband for Andy's Autometer one so we could plot everything out right on the dyno screen. Idle was sitting right around 10.5:1 . He tried several attempts at tuning the fuel down, but it wouldn't ever go above 11:1 at idle. There were two causes:

1) The injectors were NOT 38# Mustang GT injectors. They were something called "Mustang Cobra EV1 39# injectors", which apparently had a different constant scalar in the fuel tables. Just by looking, Chris knew what kind they were. So another load of the correct scalars, and a reflash, and the idle behaved quite nicely, sitting right at 13.5:1, but it kept varying. That's when we found #2.

2) The Pro-flow meter either wasn't the calibration he thought it was (again, it was used and of unknown origin), or the meter was defective, or both. So we punted: We used the Pro-flow tube with the stock (yes, STOCK) MAF meter and a Diablo MAFiA MAF extender. He plugged the tables in based on the MAFiA scalar, and boom- Everything was butter. Great idle, great acceleration, and a nice smooth torque curve on an "easy" run.

Now for the fun part. He got on it for a few runs, dialing in the A/F and timing, the latter causing some problems. At first, we thought it was the knock sensor being over-zealous. Yes, this car has a knock sensor. An '01. Who knew? Anyway... It turns out that the ECU programming was "hunting" for the lowest spark advance value amongst the three (yes, THREE) timing tables our ECUs have. So he made a change to the other two to force it to use his, and the timing behaved.

That's when we ran 237hp / 239tq. A few more changes to the program, and 249 / 238 popped up. Some more changes, and the best run of the day was 277hp / 250tq. That's when (mini) disaster struck.

At the top end of the RPM range, just around 8psi of boost, something very strange happened. The engine all of the sudden surged and bounced off the rev limiter. Hmm. Weird. Chris ran it again- Same thing. Then it hit us. With as crapily (is that a word???) as the engine ran since the S/C install, we never broke in the clutch properly. It was slipping.

Now- You'd think the story ends there- Replace the clutch, break it in properly with this good tune, and repeat the dyno run. Well, not quite. The SPEC Stage 3+ is not a fiber-based clutch disc. It's a copper/steel composite. Therefore, we never smelled the "slipping clutch" smell, and we may have a reprieve from a clutch replacement. Since the disc isn't fiber based, it shouldn't (operative word) glaze. Therefore, if we do a standard 500 miles of break-in, it should "re-seat" and be good to go.

So, for the next 500 miles, Andy's Supercharged Bling is my daily driver since he's back in North Carolina. I promise to be good.

[FastCougar]

What! A stage 3+ slipping with less than 300 whp when it takes at least 450 whp to slip the stage 3? I'm dumbfounded ... what the hell is going on here?

I suspect the problem isn't clutch related at all ... I propose you look at the MAF as a possible culprit here.

[Topik]

Originally Posted by FastCougar

What! A stage 3+ slipping with less than 300 whp when it takes at least 450 whp to slip the stage 3? I'm dumbfounded ... what the hell is going on here?

I suspect the problem isn't clutch related at all ... I propose you look at the MAF as a possible culprit here.

Its possible if improper break in occurs which could very well be the case since this car has been operating in a very strange way since before the tune as I was a witness to this.

[brapple]

there maybe something to the clutch. I know the first drive with my 3L I caused the stage 3+ to slip . then it did it one other time on the drive home. but since then it has been fine after I was carefull to drive very easy on it, only accelerating when the clutch was fully engaged and not shifting at high rpm.

now there where a few times I was on the car really hard (w/turbo) and the rpm jumped like 1k rpm and settled back down on acceleration. now I am not sure if it was just wheel spin or not so I can't confirm as it was completely random from what I can tell.

[Blackcoog]

Congrats on getting the issues figured out! Break that clutch in and get it back to the dyno so we can get some good numbers.

[gamiller]

That's when we ran 237hp / 239tq. A few more changes to the program, and 249 / 238 popped up. Some more changes, and the best run of the day was 277hp / 250tq.

[FastCougar]

Doh! Just read about the RPM spiking ... I really should read more thorough before replying. Good luck breaking in the clutch

[AndyMan]

The tuner ran to dyno pulls up to 5500rpm.
i was looking at blackcoogs dyno plot earlier... the power made at 5500 rpm looks nearly identical to blackcougs dyno plot at 5500rpm.... which is outstanding. 277hp/250tq
This should most definetly be over the 300hp when its all said and done.
I think 7k rpm should be the maxium rpm for this set... Although with the svt cams i am sure it can go higher, but that doesn't nesseary mean its safer. I still am using a stock 3L block.

[gamiller]

Andy, my boy is betting that you can hang with me...