View Full Version : Help Please Quick
2002XR
08-16-2006, 09:54 AM
I just got a call from the dealership (my car is in to get the keys reprogrammed for new svt ecu) they said they cant reprogram them becasue they are getting something coming up that says "invalid hardware" or something to that effect.. He said I need a new engine harness/fuel pump...basically telling me I would need EVERYTHIGN electrical from the contour to make it work whcih I know is BS...someone please tell me if there is anything to do!
jrak123
08-16-2006, 09:57 AM
May want tp shoot Rodneybur(or something like that) a PM, he seems to have all the answers when it comes to PATS, after all he wnet through getting his car running.
warmonger
08-16-2006, 10:14 AM
Are you mixing a return-style fuel system with a returnless ECU, or vice versa?
If so then the may not be compatible on the ecu pinout.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 10:17 AM
Are you mixing a return-style fuel system with a returnless ECU, or vice versa?
If so then the may not be compatible on the ecu pinout.
Nah, I have a 2002 cougar (returnless) with an 2000 SVT ECU (also returnless)
Maybe another question that could go here.... Do you know if the dealership can disable the PATS system maybe allowing the car to be started without a "programmed" key?
warmonger
08-16-2006, 10:27 AM
Sorry but I don't know the answer to that.
Blackcoog
08-16-2006, 10:51 AM
Why are you putting a SVT ECU in there in the first place? It will run like crap if you don't have an SVT engine in there.
Can't they flash in the code for a SVT into your current computer?
2002XR
08-16-2006, 10:57 AM
Why are you putting a SVT ECU in there in the first place? It will run like crap if you don't have an SVT engine in there.
Can't they flash in the code for a SVT into your current computer?
My engine is already seized I am getting an SVT engine put in next week. I wanted to have them reprogram the keys now so that the shop that is putting the motor in will be able to start it and make sure it is running properly. Not have to get it towed to the dealer to get re-programmed after the swap is complete. I think I asked one of the guys at the dealer if they could re-flash my stock ECU but he was a d-bag and didnt know any answers to the questions I was asking him. Im going down there in a little bit to talk to the actual person who was doing the job so Im trying to get a couple of possiblities that I could suggest to make this work. Sucks though...seems like its 1 thing after the other :mad:
jrak123
08-16-2006, 11:25 AM
Nah, I have a 2002 cougar (returnless) with an 2000 SVT ECU (also returnless)
Maybe another question that could go here.... Do you know if the dealership can disable the PATS system maybe allowing the car to be started without a "programmed" key?
They can, but most likely wont. I know it can be done for sure, but at a dealership technician level they may not know how to do that. I have seen it done in the dyno lab at Ford though, so I know it can be done.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 11:28 AM
They can, but most likely wont. I know it can be done for sure, but at a dealership technician level they may not know how to do that. I have seen it done in the dyno lab at Ford though, so I know it can be done.
Ok...maybe dumb question, but do you think it could be done at a dyno tuning shop..diabling PATS that is. I just want to know why it would be saying "invalid hardware"
jrak123
08-16-2006, 11:46 AM
not if they don't have the Fodr T-Star scanner.
Blackcoog
08-16-2006, 11:52 AM
Ok just leave the stock computer in there and bring it to a dyno shop when the engine is installed. It will run well enough to get it somewhere. Then just have them tune it with the SCT software. Or have a chip sent to you with the SVT parameters.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 12:20 PM
Ok just leave the stock computer in there and bring it to a dyno shop when the engine is installed. It will run well enough to get it somewhere. Then just have them tune it with the SCT software. Or have a chip sent to you with the SVT parameters.
The engine is seized (i believe) and wont start up....all accesories work, the battery might be to low to start it though so i havent completely ruled out that yet.
jrak123
08-16-2006, 12:27 PM
he is talking about running the new engine with the stock ECU and then take care of the ECU when the engine is installed. It will run with the stock computer, just not optimally.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 12:33 PM
he is talking about running the new engine with the stock ECU and then take care of the ECU when the engine is installed. It will run with the stock computer, just not optimally.
Ahh..opps sorry bout that...I still have to go to the dealership to ask them: 1.) If they can re-flash my stock ECU and 2.) if by some slim chance they can disable PATS. Would they be getting the "invalid hardware" prompt because maybe the ECU itself is bad?
jrak123
08-16-2006, 12:36 PM
don't worry about the re-flash until you are all done with the engine swap though, it will run just fine on the stock program, just a bit rich becaus the injector duty cycle will be off and things like that. But you can safely drive the car with the stock program until you get the issued worked out. Just get the engine installed first and started make sure all of that is ok then worry about the computer problem But if it is going to cost you too much just get a SCT and X-cal.
petec
08-16-2006, 03:00 PM
Your Cougar PCM can be reflashed to work with the Contour engine or vice versa... PATS can be shut off in the SVT PCM as well. Its no big deal for an experienced SCT dealer.
I am currently working with a local guy on his Contour with a Taurus Duratec and SVT cams.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 04:42 PM
Your Cougar PCM can be reflashed to work with the Contour engine or vice versa... PATS can be shut off in the SVT PCM as well. Its no big deal for an experienced SCT dealer.
I am currently working with a local guy on his Contour with a Taurus Duratec and SVT cams.
I just got back from the dealership and was pretty much laughed at and told never to come back. Real mature from a guy who is like 60 years old. He told me that the ECU was coming back as "invalid hardware". So I was simply trying to come to a conclusion of what I may be able to do and what my options might be. He said you cannot put a contour ECU in the cougar with the svt engine and make it work without using the contours whole electrical system and fuel pump? wtf? I know thats not true. He told me it cant be done and I told him it can. So he laughed at me and told me that he has 30 years "Ford" experience and that im just a kid messing around with my car putting in an engine that cant be put in it. So I said "I come in here looking for possible resolutions and am a paying customer and this is how I get treated?" He responded with "YEAH, thats how you are gonna get treated"...I refered to this message board saying ive been in contact with people who have done this EXACT same thing that I am doing. So his response for that was "Well then have them do it for you!"....He basically didnt want to admit I was right. I told him all I needed was the SVT ECU (which I obv. have) and the svt motor (have as well). He said he couldnt disable PATS cuase he has never heard of it being done. He was basically the biggest tool ever. So I told him "if im gonna be treated like I know NOTHING about my car, im out of here" So he said "GOOD..leave and never come back" He got a middle finger and f-you after that. God..I couldnt believe that they would actually treat someone like that just cause they dont want to admit that MAYBE a "kid" knows more about it than he does. All I was looking for was a mature way of figuring out my choices..didnt get it at all haha. So I then went to another Ford dealer, he said he has the "T Star" tool, but has never seen an option to disable the PATS sytem on it. He actually took the time to talk with me about it and saying that it is possible of being done be he didnt think he could do it. I swear all the dealers around here a incompatent. The second dealer I went to said he could only reflash my stock ECU with stock codes. So I asked if he could take the codes off the SVT ECU and flash my stock ECU with them. Of course he didnt know. So im back to square one. :mad:
jrak123
08-16-2006, 04:52 PM
mapquest it for me I will kick him in the balls and then raid the shop for the scanner and do it myself. I figured they would be too dumb to figure this out.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 05:48 PM
mapquest it for me I will kick him in the balls and then raid the shop for the scanner and do it myself. I figured they would be too dumb to figure this out.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/tegpower/mapquest.gif
Do it up :bowdown:
rbls4ever
08-16-2006, 10:06 PM
i work in a ford dealership and no-one i work with has EVER heard of any of the stuff that we do to these cars. do you think a lady or grandma is gonna soup up thier cougar? cause those are the only people ive ever seen come into my shop. never any modded cougars but mine. most the technitions i work with didnt think it was possible to have a svt tb without the ecu. but as we all know it works.....
so give him a break, although he may have been a total douche to you and you should have complained.
2002XR
08-16-2006, 11:06 PM
i work in a ford dealership and no-one i work with has EVER heard of any of the stuff that we do to these cars. do you think a lady or grandma is gonna soup up thier cougar? cause those are the only people ive ever seen come into my shop. never any modded cougars but mine. most the technitions i work with didnt think it was possible to have a svt tb without the ecu. but as we all know it works.....
so give him a break, although he may have been a total douche to you and you should have complained.
Oh, I complained, but Im more worried about just getting the thing done at this point if ya know what I mean..Ill just show up and show the guy once I get it done..
jrak123
08-16-2006, 11:45 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/tegpower/mapquest.gif
Do it up :bowdown:
tell you what I am about ready to do something like that I am all full of piss and vinigar
2002XR
08-17-2006, 11:07 AM
Question....I know that when you remove the battery cable from the terminal and leave it off for 5 minutes or however long, the ECU resets itself. Would maybe the reason they were getting "invalid hardware" because they were just hooking it straight up with out first disconnecting the battery terminal to give it time to reset itself? I dunno, just trying to get this dumb thing working.
petec
08-17-2006, 11:36 AM
You need to talk to an SCT dealer ;) It can be done. Send me a PM if you want to know whats needed.
Resetting the PCM via the battery is not the prob.
2002XR
08-17-2006, 11:41 AM
You need to talk to an SCT dealer ;) It can be done. Send me a PM if you want to know whats needed.
Resetting the PCM via the battery is not the prob.
Sent you a PM! help! haha
RodneyBur
08-17-2006, 12:29 PM
when you plug the SVT ecu into the harness, with the battery hooked up, and the key turned to pos II, what does the pats light do?
2002XR
08-17-2006, 12:48 PM
when you plug the SVT ecu into the harness, with the battery hooked up, and the key turned to pos II, what does the pats light do?
I was never there when they actually tried doing it, but this morning (3am) me and my dad illegally towed it to the shop where the motor will be put in. They still had the SVT ecu hooked up. I turned the key to pos. 2 so I could still have use of the steering wheel, and the red security light would flash, and when I would try to use the brake, it was disabled and everytime I would press the brake, the red security light would come on.
RodneyBur
08-17-2006, 01:50 PM
illegally towed? Did you take it from ford without paying?
Does the security lights/pats light flash twice as fast in POS II as it does when the alarm is set and its flashing?
Also wondering how the brake can be disabled?
The security light should not come on when the brkae is pressed. You have some sort of issue going on.
2002XR
08-17-2006, 01:57 PM
illegally towed? Did you take it from ford without paying?
Does the security lights/pats light flash twice as fast in POS II as it does when the alarm is set and its flashing?
Also wondering how the brake can be disabled?
The security light should not come on when the brkae is pressed. You have some sort of issue going on.
No no...I didnt owe them anything...As in illegally I meant hooking it up with a tow rope to my dads car and towing it across town.
Yes the security light was blinking twice as fast then it does when the alarm is set.
I'm not sure about the brake issue, but it must have been something security wise. I had the key in pos. 2 the whole way I was being towed with the SVT ecu hooked up, and the brake pedal seemed to be sort of locked in place and could be depressed maybe half an inch. When it was pressed in, the security light would blink once for each time I pressed it.
What should I do next?
FastCougar
08-17-2006, 02:34 PM
Install the stock ECU and just get the car running until you can take the ECU to a dealer that knows what the hell they are doing and can program the PATS system so that the key is recognized by the ECU PATS setting. Just drive it gengerly while the stock ECU is on there ... say shifting at 3K RPM MAX and you will be fine.
2002XR
08-17-2006, 02:38 PM
Install the stock ECU and just get the car running until you can take the ECU to a dealer that knows what the hell they are doing and can program the PATS system so that the key is recognized by the ECU PATS setting. Just drive it gengerly while the stock ECU is on there ... say shifting at 3K RPM MAX and you will be fine.
This is safe right? Just want to be sure that I wont cause any harm to the motor I just bought..Im sure you can relate:)
jrak123
08-17-2006, 02:43 PM
yeah it's safe.
2002XR
08-17-2006, 03:00 PM
yeah it's safe.
Short and sweet. Alright Cool, thanks. Now that I know it's still drivable, I gotta hunt down a knowledgeable dealer who can help me:crazy:
EDIT: I know Rodneybur said it was weird that the brakes were disabled with the SVT ecu installed and the key in the 2nd pos. with the PATS light lighting up each time the brake was pressed. Does anyone know if thats normal? Or maybe have some insight on that.
EDIT x2 : Would the xcal help me out at all in my current situation