Raising the Rev Limiter

[posthuman63t]

Hey guys, just wondering about raising the rev limiter on my 3L. I'm using the PRP and xcal2. Are the only values I have to change in advantage the scalars for the rev limiter? I raised them all to 7100 RPM's, I just need to know if there is anything else I have to change as well.

[warmonger]

No, there's probably more depending on your code. There are variables in another table on mine that I had to change, I'll have to check and get back to you later.

Don't forget to change the ones listed for an ATX because sometimes they are used by the code as well.

[TrackCat]

why?? why are you raising the rev limiter??

[posthuman63t]

why?? why are you raising the rev limiter??

haha, why not?

[DanG]

ha ha... Just 'cause you can, of course!

More revs = m0r3 p0w3r, y0!

:disgust:

You haven't shown us one iota of proof that you have any reason to raise the limiter. Only on an SVT cam profile? What is your new valve spring pressure? What upgraded bearings are you running? Where are your flowbench numbers for your heads to support the increased revs?

Oh, wait- Sorry. I'm using my brain. My bad.

Just throw it up to 9000. Then you can say you rev like an S2000!

[posthuman63t]

ha ha... Just 'cause you can, of course!

More revs = m0r3 p0w3r, y0!

:disgust:

You haven't shown us one iota of proof that you have any reason to raise the limiter. Only on an SVT cam profile? What is your new valve spring pressure? What upgraded bearings are you running? Where are your flowbench numbers for your heads to support the increased revs?

Oh, wait- Sorry. I'm using my brain. My bad.

Just throw it up to 9000. Then you can say you rev like an S2000!

Wow, thanks for being an @$$hole. I guess I said something like I was raising the limiter to 9k. I guess you people are everywhere.

I want to raise the limiter up about 150rpms simply so when I do redline and come close to the "factory set" limiter, I won't run the risk of bouncing off it. My God...if you don;t have anything valueable to contribute, please don't clutter my post.

[BigBalledOX]

ha ha... Just 'cause you can, of course!

More revs = m0r3 p0w3r, y0!

:disgust:

You haven't shown us one iota of proof that you have any reason to raise the limiter. Only on an SVT cam profile? What is your new valve spring pressure? What upgraded bearings are you running? Where are your flowbench numbers for your heads to support the increased revs?

Oh, wait- Sorry. I'm using my brain. My bad.

Just throw it up to 9000. Then you can say you rev like an S2000!

Not for nothin Dan, but when I had my car at Logan getting tuned, we bumped the rev limiter to 7200 because the SVT cams made power almost all the way to it. :shrug:

[DanG]

Wow, thanks for being an @$$hole. I guess I said something like I was raising the limiter to 9k. I guess you people are everywhere.

I want to raise the limiter up about 150rpms simply so when I do redline and come close to the "factory set" limiter, I won't run the risk of bouncing off it. My God...if you don;t have anything valueable to contribute, please don't clutter my post.

Outstanding. You missed absolutely EVERY point to the post (and "valuable" is strictly subjective).

Your soft/hard limiters need to be in place and cannot arbitrarily be futzed with (technical term).

7200RPMs as BBox said is about the limit of the engine in stock form. Any more than that and you seriously risk failure of the internal components (including the rock-hard stock bearings if you haven't replaced them).

Another point was that you made no reference to the difference between soft and hard limiters, which means that more research is necessary on your part before you actually break something.

Stop. Think. XCal.

[posthuman63t]

Outstanding. You missed absolutely EVERY point to the post (and "valuable" is strictly subjective).

Your soft/hard limiters need to be in place and cannot arbitrarily be futzed with (technical term).

7200RPMs as BBox said is about the limit of the engine in stock form. Any more than that and you seriously risk failure of the internal components (including the rock-hard stock bearings if you haven't replaced them).

Another point was that you made no reference to the difference between soft and hard limiters, which means that more research is necessary on your part before you actually break something.

Stop. Think. XCal.

Hence the reason why I am here asking for help and Haven't plugged a different tune into my car yet. Isn't that the basis of this new forum...to learn and explain stuff? It's not like there is the same amount of info on tuning this platform as there is on...some rehashed info like a cai or something. If there was tons of tuning info related to OUR cars and a PRP, trust me I would have read over them several times by now.

note: I never said I was running to 7200. I said 7100. My rod and main bearings are replaced with clevite bearings.

Are you hostile to everyone trying to learn? Or is this because I am new to YOUR boards.?

[warmonger]

FWIW, I like 7200 as a maximum limit with 7100 as a soft limit.


I rev'd my turbo'd engine to 7100 rpm quite a few times and there was nothing but power waiting for me. On the other hand I never ran a higher rev limit in stock or NA 3L. Not saying I wouldn't I just didn't have a way to run it higher at that time. I did upgrade the rod bearings to Clevite77 as well so that helps.
IMO 7200 rpm would be the max for the stock SVT cam'd 3L with every intake and exhaust mod done to it. Dan was on the right track that you have to be able to take in more air at those rpms to make it worthwhile. Of course bouncing off the stock limiter during a run sucks too.

[posthuman63t]

FWIW, I like 7200 as a maximum limit with 7100 as a soft limit.


I rev'd my turbo'd engine to 7100 rpm quite a few times and there was nothing but power waiting for me. On the other hand I never ran a higher rev limit in stock or NA 3L. Not saying I wouldn't I just didn't have a way to run it higher at that time. I did upgrade the rod bearings to Clevite77 as well so that helps.
IMO 7200 rpm would be the max for the stock SVT cam'd 3L with every intake and exhaust mod done to it. Dan was on the right track that you have to be able to take in more air at those rpms to make it worthwhile. Of course bouncing off the stock limiter during a run sucks too.

Yea, I understand what he was saying as far as flow and everything, my only problem was him jumping on me and saying something like "raising his limiter to 9k" and stuff like that. I didn't make any wild claims or say I knew everything about anything and I get jumped on like - a Honda boy who learned how to change his oil and is now talking about custom fabbing a turbo kit - I mean, give me a break.

And believe me, I have a lot to learn about tuning. I read up on stuff as much as I can, but it really helps to be able to deal with our platform, rather than read everything about a mustang being tuned, then apply the basic fundamentals to our cars. I thought that was the basis for this forum on NECO, having tuning discussions based on our cars.

No hard feelings Dan...But ya don't have to jump on me.

[DanG]

<hatchet burying on>

Yea, I understand what he was saying as far as flow and everything, my only problem was him jumping on me and saying something like "raising his limiter to 9k" and stuff like that. I didn't make any wild claims or say I knew everything about anything and I get jumped on like - a Honda boy who learned how to change his oil and is now talking about custom fabbing a turbo kit - I mean, give me a break.

I would have taken you more seriously without the:

haha, why not?

comment. This led me down the all-too-familiar path of "just another ricer...", yada yada yada.

Bygones.

</hatchet burying off>

[posthuman63t]

Understood...I just seen that guy ask in another post, why he raised the limiter, so after asking twice, and not elaborating on why he's freaking out about it, I gave him a crappy response.

It's all good though.

Still looking for that info from ya war...on what besides the limiters in the "scalars" has to be changed.

[TrackCat]

I build and tune engines ,and all my customers ask is to raise the rev limiter. I ask why to every thing someone suggests to find the reasoning behind the thought. I want to know what others opinions are thats all. I've learned that raising your rpm rev limit even a little can have devastating effects on an engine. To you 150 rpm is easy to set but to your engine thats another 2.5 revolutions a secondon top of the 114 revolutions a second thats it's working with.

[warmonger]

I build and tune engines ,and all my customers ask is to raise the rev limiter. I ask why to every thing someone suggests to find the reasoning behind the thought. I want to know what others opinions are thats all. I've learned that raising your rpm rev limit even a little can have devastating effects on an engine. To you 150 rpm is easy to set but to your engine thats another 2.5 revolutions a secondon top of the 114 revolutions a second thats it's working with.

In principle I agree, however with these duratec engines 7200 rpm is really nothing much to it. It seems that up to 7500 rpm goes without any apparent issues, but above 7500 the engine begins to consume oil.
The first issue due to higher rpm on our engines appears to be from the ring design since oil consumption begins to rear its head, and maybe the bearings. 8K rpm seems to be a maximum for us to safely run with stock valvetrain as theres very little information I've read for people running above 8K.
The nice thing is that the cams will keep up through 8K rpm if everything else holds up fine. :cool:

[scrupul0us]

The nice thing is that the cams will keep up through 8K rpm if everything else holds up fine. :cool:

When all else fails, the cams and coilpacks of our cars will last forever :)

[TrackCat]

But if you don't have anything to increase your VE then your just losing power afterwards. On the dyno you will see the torque start to trail off and make less power beyond your rev limit.

[posthuman63t]

I relied on demons breakdown of rpm's and what is safe to do and what isn't. (found on his site) I understand where your coming from...

[SpookSVT]

The team contour touring cars were running up to 8200RPM before valve float became an issue. Those engines lasted 3 race seasons IIRC on stock rods and valvetrain aside from the custom cams. The motor can take some abuse, thats for sure.

I'm surprised you've taken your motor past 7000RPM, warmonger. I guess since you make all that TQ early it isn't as bad for the stock rods. Seems the the motor in stock form can take whatever abuse we can throw at it with usuable power levels.

The only weekpoint besides the stock bearings that I see is how much the pistons can hold up to boost. The 03/04 cobras have cast hyperuetetic pistons IIRC, and there are guys making almost 800HP on pump fuel. How much more do you think our pistons can take?

[BigBalledOX]

The team contour touring cars were running up to 8200RPM before valve float became an issue. Those engines lasted 3 race seasons IIRC on stock rods and valvetrain aside from the custom cams. The motor can take some abuse, thats for sure.


Spook, you just made me the happiest man on earth. :biggrin:

[SpookSVT]

Spook, you just made me the happiest man on earth. :biggrin:

Just wait up a second there. My original plan was to do a balls to the wall N/A buildup. Custom cams w/ adjustable sprockets, 12:1 CR, custom single runner oval manifold w/ twin TB setup, custom exhaust system, ported, flow matched, and flowed for velocity heads, and 8000RPM.

The motor would take it fine but not as my daily driver. It wasn't at all practical as you'd be replacing rockers, springs, pistons every 75,000 or so miles (driver dependant) to keep the motor running correctly at those levels because of extensive wear. I wouldn't recomend revving the motor out past 7500RPM if it isn't a weekend car/race car. Piston speeds are way past 4000FPM which is very damaging.

I had it all planned out. Set the cams to advance to improve lowend TQ and driveability for daily driving, retard the timing to make maximum HP from 5000-8000RPM. Custom manifold to match the hotter cam profile. The twin TB's while smaller, would feed only one plenum increasing velocity for better lowend TQ, but still flow enough to make power all the way up to 8000RPM.

I then realized for a few hundred more I could do a turbo setup and make 200 more HP with better reliability, drivaebility, and gas milage which would be much more practical.

It would be nice hearing a 3L screaming at 8000RPM though, just not at all practical.

[TrackCat]

as long as you have a good engine builder you won't really have to worry about hitting 8000rpm all the time. I listen to what my customer wants and I always over engineer the tolerances about 20-25% extra. Thats the rule of thumb I use.

[Yofavcracka]

my advice on this whole subject, just F*ck the hassle of trying to raise the rev limiter and buy a mazda with a rotary engine, you can let those redline all you want, and nothing happens to them

[BigBalledOX]

my advice on this whole subject, just F*ck the hassle of trying to raise the rev limiter and buy a mazda with a rotary engine, you can let those redline all you want, and nothing happens to them

Yup, that makes perfect sense . . . hang out with Shadowfox28 much? :rolleyes:

Spook, I appreciate the input, and its something I'll take in to consideration. Right now the car is my daily and I rarely take it above 5k around town, and my commute is pretty short as well, so 75k miles is actually a pretty good amount as far as I'm concerned. I'll also soon be picking up a daily driver so the Cougar can be more of a toy/autox/track car than anything else.

[warmonger]

The team contour touring cars were running up to 8200RPM before valve float became an issue. Those engines lasted 3 race seasons IIRC on stock rods and valvetrain aside from the custom cams. The motor can take some abuse, thats for sure.

I'm surprised you've taken your motor past 7000RPM, warmonger. I guess since you make all that TQ early it isn't as bad for the stock rods. Seems the the motor in stock form can take whatever abuse we can throw at it with usuable power levels.

The only weekpoint besides the stock bearings that I see is how much the pistons can hold up to boost. The 03/04 cobras have cast hyperuetetic pistons IIRC, and there are guys making almost 800HP on pump fuel. How much more do you think our pistons can take?

Well I wasn't aware of what pistons were in the 03/04 cobras or that they were pulling 800hp on them. What was the torque at that power level? Do you know what RPM?
We have hypereutecic cast pistons as well. They are pretty good quality. I suppose if a v8 is pulling 800 HP and that's about 100hp per cylinder so if a duratec piston is approximately similar build quality, and taking into account size difference that the mustang pistons are about 15% bigger, that would be about 85% and over six cylinders instead of eight. Comes out to 510hp.
So 500 hp seem reasonable? I know they can take 400 HP. I think it is going to be based upon torque at rpm more than a specific HP level.

[SpookSVT]

Well I wasn't aware of what pistons were in the 03/04 cobras or that they were pulling 800hp on them. What was the torque at that power level? Do you know what RPM?
We have hypereutecic cast pistons as well. They are pretty good quality. I suppose if a v8 is pulling 800 HP and that's about 100hp per cylinder so if a duratec piston is approximately similar build quality, and taking into account size difference that the mustang pistons are about 15% bigger, that would be about 85% and over six cylinders instead of eight. Comes out to 510hp.
So 500 hp seem reasonable? I know they can take 400 HP. I think it is going to be based upon torque at rpm more than a specific HP level.


I'll have to go digging on SVTP to find out TQ & RPM levels. but figure between 6200-6500RPM.

Whats your car making now at the crank, how do you do the back calculation also?. I know ray put down 415whp, thats a real nice motor and turbo setup you built. I may be contacting you in the future for information.

[warmonger]

For our cars a loose approximation was 18% loss from the MTX.

So take 415/0.82= 506 crank hp
When I had it I made 355 wHP at about 10psi, that is the dyno I posted in the 3L forum and that back-calculates to 432 crankHP

[TrackCat]

my advice on this whole subject, just F*ck the hassle of trying to raise the rev limiter and buy a mazda with a rotary engine, you can let those redline all you want, and nothing happens to them
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Rotary engine?? you mean the rotary Potato. I own a 95 RX-7, they are far from reliable especialy if you rev them all the time. I Love my FD. But around the FD clubs almost all the members had to at one time or another rebuild or replace the engine.

[SpookSVT]

That 800HP cobra I was talking about earlier was making 850whp but on 100+ octane fuel. I found another car making almost 680wtq @ about 5500RPM's and he wound the car out to 7K.

I think if you stick with the stock 3L cams and make all your TQ early and have it fall off slowly you can get away with turning up the boost if you don't go too crazy on the revs. For example, your car made 380ft-lbs and ran to 7200RPM on 14psi, I would run as high as 16psi max but not go over the stock rev limit, 6750RPM. There wouldn't be much need to rev the motor out anymore as far as making more power since you already have a fat power curve form 5K on. Those are just assumptions,there would be the math to do which I'd like to learn if you have time.

Now if one were to go with forged pistons then you could get a bit crazier.

[DemonSVT]

In principle I agree, however with these duratec engines 7200 rpm is really nothing much to it. It seems that up to 7500 rpm goes without any apparent issues, but above 7500 the engine begins to consume oil.
The first issue due to higher rpm on our engines appears to be from the ring design since oil consumption begins to rear its head, and maybe the bearings. 8K rpm seems to be a maximum for us to safely run with stock valvetrain as theres very little information I've read for people running above 8K.
The nice thing is that the cams will keep up through 8K rpm if everything else holds up fine. :cool:
I wonder where all that information came from. Oh Yeah; maybe it was from someone proving some one else wrong. AGAIN! ;)

I wonder how many people hate you and I Tom. We've proved so many others utterly wrong and assinine I've lost count. How about you? You have the current count? :evil:

[Yofavcracka]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Rotary engine?? you mean the rotary Potato. I own a 95 RX-7, they are far from reliable especialy if you rev them all the time. I Love my FD. But around the FD clubs almost all the members had to at one time or another rebuild or replace the engine.
hmm wierd, i read in a car magazine, that rotary engines were able to rev as high as they want and just let it bounce off the limiter, and it wont hurt the engine???

[DemonSVT]

hmm wierd, i read in a car magazine, that rotary engines were able to rev as high as they want and just let it bounce off the limiter, and it wont hurt the engine???
I bounce off the limiter countless time a day. What does that prove except the multi-stage limiter works...

I ran my stock 2.5L to 8100rpm on a daily basis for well over 10k miles. That included bouncing off the limiter 1000's of times during testing. Besides the obvious oiling problems the 2.5L has nothing else really even batted an eyelash.
For that matter 8100rpm is beyond the powerband of the SVT cams so honestly there is no true reason to even rev that high. (it was a bit cool though :cool: )

My current limiter is 7400 soft (spark) / 7500 hard (fuel). Even all out I normally shift around 7300 rpm with my current setup. Well except 1st that seems to hit the limiter in under 1 second.

[warmonger]

Probably quite a few. :D

Hey, I got my second tuning job for someone who'll remain unnamed, (first one was for free to a guy on CEG to build a bit of credibility).
So far so good. Anyway I have two codes and I'll begin to get some more.

[TrackCat]

You don't hurt the Engine unless your reving it up all the time. On the FD's when you add power your reliablilty goes down unless you single turbo it but then its just a life of 60,000 miles till th engine gives.

[SpookSVT]

Hey, I got my second tuning job for someone who'll remain unnamed, (first one was for free to a guy on CEG to build a bit of credibility).
So far so good. Anyway I have two codes and I'll begin to get some more.

Do you have the 98E0 return style code already, what would it cost to get the code for it so you could tune that code. How much would tunes run?

hmm wierd, i read in a car magazine, that rotary engines were able to rev as high as they want and just let it bounce off the limiter, and it wont hurt the engine???

A rotary has much fewer moving parts which is why it can rev much higher without much worry, less things to go wrong in a sense. It has to anyway to make any power because it has very little displacement (referring to the 13b's and 12A's). I don't know about the 12A but the newer 13b renesis in the RX8 has to wind out to 9K to make power since it is N/A, they are very similar to smaller displacement N/A honda as far as powerbands goes IMO.

[warmonger]

What is your code? Get it off your pcm and I'll tell you if I can tune it.
I have two codes used for 98 and early 99 returnstyle.

[RodneyBur]

E0=RJL1 code
E1=SFG2 code

I'm sure those are prob the two codes you have too.

Warmonger, I was wondering if you think you could do some good doing a mail tune before doing a dyno tune. Will it possibly cut dyno time (from two to one hour), or possibly make it a better tune since you prob(99.99% sure of this) know more about the duratec and tuning it than the dyno guys.

The dyno I'm going to has never done a cougar/contour, but have done alot of other fords and is mainly a mustang shop I guess. They had alot of really nice mustangs in the shop btw.

I'm running a ported 3L for 2.5 intakes, 24# injectors, removed secondaries, SVT Cams. Right now I have an SFG2 SVT ECU with a SCT chip set to 24# injectors, lower fan settings, and removed secondaries. The dyno guys did all that when I picked the chip up and it only took them a few minutes, so I don't know what all they changed, or how they changed it.

I can give you alot more details on the engine, but thats the important stuff I think.

Ohhh... Can you do chips or just the x-cal?

[BigBalledOX]

Will it possibly cut dyno time (from two to one hour), or possibly make it a better tune since you prob(99.99% sure of this) know more about the duratec and tuning it than the dyno guys.

The dyno I'm going to has never done a cougar/contour, but have done alot of other fords and is mainly a mustang shop I guess. They had alot of really nice mustangs in the shop btw.


Hate to break it to you dude, but no matter what ANYONE says, an engine is an engine is an engine, and the dyno shop can either tune an engine or they cannot.

This stupid, baseless myth that the Duratec is some kind of uberdifficult, finnicky engine to tune is completely and utterly baseless. I think I proved that when I took my car to Logan Motorsports and they tuned it just fine despite having never tuned a Duratec before.

You're either going to a quality shop, or you're not. Its really that simple.

[Drewmanfu0]

BBOX is tha shiznit KABAMM listen to what ever he says or else!!!!

[Drewmanfu0]

Kinda likie the dealership tellin me my goberrinful valve in my transmissinon would take 15 hours to replace BS i can R&R my trans in under 5 Hrs.

[warmonger]

Hate to break it to you dude, but no matter what ANYONE says, an engine is an engine is an engine, and the dyno shop can either tune an engine or they cannot.

This stupid, baseless myth that the Duratec is some kind of uberdifficult, finnicky engine to tune is completely and utterly baseless. I think I proved that when I took my car to Logan Motorsports and they tuned it just fine despite having never tuned a Duratec before.

You're either going to a quality shop, or you're not. Its really that simple.

Nobody said its uberdifficult, though you have a point.

Everybody just seems to be relating their experiences about how much money is getting wasted on what turn out to be crap tunes, and poor customer service (agrees with your assessment that its a bad shop); or shops that claim they don't know what to tune.
Also, engines may work the same way but there are differences between the duratec and other engines in how they respond to certain tuning techniques.
Just like there are quirks in the subaru engines, evo engines, and ford engines that a tuner learns to work around through experience. Some engines just dont tolerate high timing and others never seem to have problems with it.

[warmonger]

E0=RJL1 code
E1=SFG2 code

I'm sure those are prob the two codes you have too.

Warmonger, I was wondering if you think you could do some good doing a mail tune before doing a dyno tune. Will it possibly cut dyno time (from two to one hour), or possibly make it a better tune since you prob(99.99% sure of this) know more about the duratec and tuning it than the dyno guys.

The dyno I'm going to has never done a cougar/contour, but have done alot of other fords and is mainly a mustang shop I guess. They had alot of really nice mustangs in the shop btw.

I'm running a ported 3L for 2.5 intakes, 24# injectors, removed secondaries, SVT Cams. Right now I have an SFG2 SVT ECU with a SCT chip set to 24# injectors, lower fan settings, and removed secondaries. The dyno guys did all that when I picked the chip up and it only took them a few minutes, so I don't know what all they changed, or how they changed it.

I can give you alot more details on the engine, but thats the important stuff I think.

Ohhh... Can you do chips or just the x-cal?


I can only work with the xcal2 as I didn't buy a chip burner. However, I may be able to purchase one since I have the SFG2 code depending upon costs and if enough people were interested in just tunes on chips rather than buying an xcal2 and then buying a tune.

[SpookSVT]

Warmonger, I'll get you my code maybe next weekend, I don't have the right tools with me right now. Or can I just unscrew the wiring harness and slide the computer out in the cabin? I wasn't sure if the prongs would get damaged this way. I just took the whole computer and bracket out together last time.

I won't be in need of any tunes until at least next winter/spring and if I do it will be via XCAL because I'll be wanting a few to work with. I was just curious if you had my code. This may be my best bet seeing as you've done all the work and save me dyno time.

[BigBalledOX]

Nobody said its uberdifficult, though you have a point.

Everybody just seems to be relating their experiences about how much money is getting wasted on what turn out to be crap tunes, and poor customer service (agrees with your assessment that its a bad shop); or shops that claim they don't know what to tune.
Also, engines may work the same way but there are differences between the duratec and other engines in how they respond to certain tuning techniques.
Just like there are quirks in the subaru engines, evo engines, and ford engines that a tuner learns to work around through experience. Some engines just dont tolerate high timing and others never seem to have problems with it.

I understand there's quirks in each different engine, thats perfectly reasonable. But when I decided to go with dyno tuning of the vehicle, everyone acted like I was a total moron. Look, I know I don't have the ability to tune the thing myself, and I got tired of the thing running like ass, so I made a few phone calls, sent out a few emails, and then drove two hours, one way, to a place that had never touched a Duratec before. Logan did an EXCELLENT job tuning the car.

Maybe I was just lucky and happened to stumble upon a quality shop. But if Logan had given me some mealy-mouthed excuse about "not knowing what to tune" or something like that, I would have said, hey, thanks for playin, and moved on. I'm sure it can be frustrating to go through something like that . . . but not nearly as frustrating as driving a car that feels lame. :tongue:

[TrackCat]

I understand there's quirks in each different engine, thats perfectly reasonable. But when I decided to go with dyno tuning of the vehicle, everyone acted like I was a total moron. Look, I know I don't have the ability to tune the thing myself, and I got tired of the thing running like ass, so I made a few phone calls, sent out a few emails, and then drove two hours, one way, to a place that had never touched a Duratec before. Logan did an EXCELLENT job tuning the car.

Maybe I was just lucky and happened to stumble upon a quality shop. But if Logan had given me some mealy-mouthed excuse about "not knowing what to tune" or something like that, I would have said, hey, thanks for playin, and moved on. I'm sure it can be frustrating to go through something like that . . . but not nearly as frustrating as driving a car that feels lame. :tongue:


When I went to EFI101 classes to get certified Ben said " An engine is and engine and if you follow the simple math and know the software you can tune anything Gas, Disiel, Methanol, or even lawnmowers" When a shop refuses to let me tune my own car because they have never worked on my engine before thats just Bull.... And always ask what software they use and if they are certified it helps. It took me and my friend about 3 and a half hours to tune for the first time. Experience with the software before hand plays a big role now I'm down to 1 hour tuning my set-up.

[TrackCat]

So BBOX you did well in finding a good shop. And you did something alot of people don't do you waited until you did find a good shop. Most people think just because a shop has a dyno they are "Professional" but when you ask how they came about the Injector pulse width for your set-up they just look at you as if your ranting about something else.

[warmonger]

I agree Ox, those are fair statements. I TOO refused to drive around a car that ran like ass. :)
Back when I did my first 3L swap in 2000 I had some issues and I was obsessed with it! I spent hour after hour of my off time trying to figure it out. It pisses me off now just thinking about how much time and money I wasted in a three month period over just some stupid shyte, but I learned a lot along the way!
It turned out all that was wrong was a set of plug wires that were seemingly good but were really bad.