Full 3L dyno numbers

[Blackcoog]

One of the 3L SVT Contours I sold finally made it to the dyno. The car is completely stock intake and exhaust. The engine is a 01 Taurus engine with 3L intakes and 3L cams. No mods to it at all.

Dynoed at 195 hp and 192 torque.
Baseline before tune was 188 hp and 185 torque.
When they deleted the imrc it picked up 40hp and 38 lbft of torque at 3500rpm.

Not bad for a full 3L. That is more than my hybrid ever put out and that is comparable to some of the SVT 3L's out there without any intake or exhaust mods. This is one of the reasons I try and tell people to stick with the full 3L to save money instead of buying all those SVT parts and porting the heads.

[GrandMasterKhan]

I am curious though, if it is a full 3.0 with 3.0 heads and 3.0 intake manifolds wouldnt it not have the IMRC assembley at all since it would be using the 3.0 lim?

Or do you mean deleteing the IMRC from the ecu programming?


Those 3.0 cams sure do make some some killer midrange power/tq!

[mond12345]

Dynoed at 195 hp and 192 torque.
Baseline before tune was 188 hp and 185 torque.
When they deleted the imrc it picked up 40hp and 38 lbft of torque at 3500rpm.

If its a full 3L why is there a IMRC? Or do you mean from the ECU when they took it out of the tune?

*GMK posted when i was typing.*

[ov3n]

so when you say you removed the IMRC, did you mean they removed the IMRC programming from the ecu?

[nadthomas]

Doesn't a full 3L not have a IMRC. :cover: :biggrin:


Nice numbers. I need to replace the ATX cougar, even though I'm looking to get a truck/suv, one of your 3L SVTs is always on my mind as a possibility. Got any pics of the current one for sale.

[AndyMan]

thats the type of 3L i need.. lol

[Blackcoog]

To answer everyone's question... the IMRC programming was removed in the tune and that is what they picked up when they tuned it out. :)

So you are correct it doesn't have an IMRC which is why it was removed.... the box I mean and the tune... lol

nadthomas here is the link to the car I have forsale: http://www.tcstangs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37001

[GrandMasterKhan]

goes to show the proper tune can make or break an engine lol

[Kinger]

I thought your hybrid was in the mid 220's? I always figured a 3L would be 200/200 to the wheels and a modified hybrid would get you to 220-240to the wheels.

[GrandMasterKhan]

The hybrids tended to dyno on the low side. even with mucho mods. 185-210

However with 3.0 heads using 2.5L svt cams and svt lim you'll see 200-220+ IIRC

This is the highest I have seen for a complete 3.0 with 3.0 intake manifolds..

[jaa55]

ok what would you expect to see from a 3.0 with SVT cams with headers, intake cat back etc. also plan on doing some head work, does anyone know how much you can shave the heads if at all possible? how much valve clearance is there in the motor?

[GrandMasterKhan]

None. DO NOT SHAVE THE HEADS> If you want higher compression do it by getting higher compression pistons with the proper valve releifs.

[jaa55]

haha thanks for the info, i thought it would be a good idea to ask!

[Kinger]

Go to blackcoogs web page, at the bottom is a dyno form may of 05 that shows 220FWHP and 200 FWTQ:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/300644

[RodneyBur]

Yeah it seems a little sad that all the add ons such as headers, exhaust, test pipe, UD pullies, SVT Cams / UIM / TB, AEM Intake, Fidanza, etc only nets 25 HP (or 30 to crank). Thats alot of extra work not to mention about 1600 dollars. Don't take me wrong I'll take that 25 hp anyday, just seems like it should be a little more.

[mond12345]

Yeah it seems a little sad that all the add ons such as headers, exhaust, test pipe, UD pullies, SVT Cams / UIM / TB, AEM Intake, Fidanza, etc only nets 25 HP (or 30 to crank). Thats alot of extra work not to mention about 1600 dollars. Don't take me wrong I'll take that 25 hp anyday, just seems like it should be a little more.

Well before you go getting down on yourself go to the dyno, get a nice tune and numbers. Than you can bit*h.

[RodneyBur]

I'm going but what most other built 3L are getting. I'm not dreaming and thinking I will magically get more HP than others are getting. I mean I strayed off the "normal" build a little and hope to get a few more extra HP but we will see about that. I mean realistically any 3l build with lots of aftermarket parts (NA) should see between 220 and 230 hp to the wheels. A couple people changed pistons to up the compression gaining about 10 more hp on top of the regular build. IIRC the most HP out of a NA 3l was 236 hp and that was with the above said pistons.

I really don't see the point of your post though. Why should I wait when I really know what I'm aiming towards. I'll be stoked if I hit 225 and pissing myself if I hit 230. It just seems a little ****ty that all that extra money and parts only adds 30 hp. I guess it is the nature of the duratec and costs of trying to build on this platform.

[bradSVT]

To answer everyone's question... the IMRC programming was removed in the tune and that is what they picked up when they tuned it out. :)

So you are correct it doesn't have an IMRC which is why it was removed.... the box I mean and the tune... lol

nadthomas here is the link to the car I have forsale: http://www.tcstangs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37001

Do you know what program was used when the car was tuned?

[mond12345]

I'm going but what most other built 3L are getting. I'm not dreaming and thinking I will magically get more HP than others are getting. I mean I strayed off the "normal" build a little and hope to get a few more extra HP but we will see about that. I mean realistically any 3l build with lots of aftermarket parts (NA) should see between 220 and 230 hp to the wheels. A couple people changed pistons to up the compression gaining about 10 more hp on top of the regular build. IIRC the most HP out of a NA 3l was 236 hp and that was with the above said pistons.

I really don't see the point of your post though. Why should I wait when I really know what I'm aiming toward. I'll be stoked if I hit 225 and pissing myself if I hit 230. It just seems a little ****ty that all that extra money and parts only adds 30 hp. I guess it is the nature of the duratec and costs of trying to build on this platform.


Well yes you are right. You are probably going to see between 220-230WHP but the TB curve will be sweet as hell and the car is just going to pull. If you are really looking lots of more power our going to have to get some F/I.

[ilovemycar]

Well yes you are right. You are probably going to see between 220-230WHP but the TB curve will be sweet as hell and the car is just going to pull. If you are really looking lots of more power our going to have to get some F/I.


A 125 shot is fun on a stock 2.5...:naughty: http://www.newcougar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25394&d=1151894305

Imagione what that would do if i get a nice PnP'd full bolt-on
3L in there :evil: .....no i'm not doin' that i was just sayin' ;)

Finish that motor Rodney and then see what you want.

[mond12345]

Whats a 125 shot you wimp! Your not cool till your at a 200 shot! :rofl:

[SpookSVT]

Yeah it seems a little sad that all the add ons such as headers, exhaust, test pipe, UD pullies, SVT Cams / UIM / TB, AEM Intake, Fidanza, etc only nets 25 HP (or 30 to crank). Thats alot of extra work not to mention about 1600 dollars. Don't take me wrong I'll take that 25 hp anyday, just seems like it should be a little more.

Rev the engine more. SVT cams don't stop making power until past 7000RPM, even then they hold that power for some time if you have minor headwork and EH manifolds to support it.

We're talking about a N/A 4-valve DOHC motor, look at any N/A DOHC motor or any N/A motor for that matter, they make their power in the high RPM range. It seems a waste to bother with SVT cams unless you're going past 7000RPM. The Duratec can handle it fine. The Team contour race teams had the 2.5L out to 8300RPM on stock valvetrain comnponents.

It all comes from this equation; HP=TQ*RPM/5252. The more TQ you make the more HP you make. HP is nothing more than a function of TQ at a given RPM. The engine itself doesn't generate HP. It makes TQ, the rotational force that moves the vehicle initially.

HP is defined as the ability to move 550lbs, 1 foot in 1 second. That means you need a force to move it ie. TQ, which is defined as work or a rotaional force, and a unit of time ie. RPM or Revolution Per MINUTE to make HP.

In our case the more TQ we can make at higher RPM's the more HP we can generate, which is why a car can keep accelerating even though the TQ falls off after 5252RPM where the HP and TQ curves cross.

Someone could probably get into that a little more but thats pretty basic. You can understand it better by just punching in TQ and RPM values into the equation and solving it.

[StealthyWeasel]

Rev the engine more. SVT cams don't stop making power until past 7000RPM, even then they hold that power for some time if you have minor headwork and EH manifolds to support it.

We're talking about a N/A 4-valve DOHC motor, look at any N/A DOHC motor or any N/A motor for that matter, they make their power in the high RPM range. It seems a waste to bother with SVT cams unless you're going past 7000RPM. The Duratec can handle it fine. The Team contour race teams had the 2.5L out to 8300RPM on stock valvetrain comnponents.

It all comes from this equation; HP=TQ*RPM/5252. The more TQ you make the more HP you make. HP is nothing more than a function of TQ at a given RPM. The engine itself doesn't generate HP. It makes TQ, the rotational force that moves the vehicle initially.

HP is defined as the ability to move 550lbs, 1 foot in 1 second. That means you need a force to move it ie. TQ, which is defined as work or a rotaional force, and a unit of time ie. RPM or Revolution Per MINUTE to make HP.

In our case the more TQ we can make at higher RPM's the more HP we can generate, which is why a car can keep accelerating even though the TQ falls off after 5252RPM where the HP and TQ curves cross.

Someone could probably get into that a little more but thats pretty basic. You can understand it better by just punching in TQ and RPM values into the equation and solving it.

spook did you use svt cams? I don't even remember.

[SpookSVT]

spook did you use svt cams? I don't even remember.

I'm using 3L cams. I saved the SVT's because I'm still deciding on doing a crazy N/A setup or doing a supercharger setup. I needed a motor in the car so I had something to drive.

The SVT's I was going to have reground or have a custom set of cams made, still up in the air though.

[StealthyWeasel]

check your PM's spook

[GI8U2racing]

So what's the fad these days? 3L cams or SVT cams? I know I wont be over 7K RPM, so should I stick with 3L cams for the 3L? It'd make the swap a little easier and cheaper, too.

[Blackcoog]

Do you know what program was used when the car was tuned?

I believe it was SCT software.

So what's the fad these days? 3L cams or SVT cams? I know I wont be over 7K RPM, so should I stick with 3L cams for the 3L? It'd make the swap a little easier and cheaper, too.

For a daily driver the 3L cams will give you more usable power and the car will feel faster. The SVT cams should give you a little more total power but I'm not sure if it would even be 5-10hp.

[streetfamemlf]

what cams would be better for a forced induction setup like the thomas night s/c?

[DanG]

SVT. Don't make the same mistake I did.

[Blackcoog]

SVT. Don't make the same mistake I did.
Just for people who don't know Dan used Mazda 6 cams which didn't work out as well as he had wanted. What didn't you like about them?

Warmonger proved the 3L cams put out 340hp in his turbo Contour though. I would agree in a FI case you'd want the power band shifted up from the SVT cams because our platforms can't handle the low end power anyway.

For those that want another set of numbers. I pulled this from someones profile on CEG:

98.5 Black contour // A.K.A. Frankenstein

3L Oval port swap W P&P // SVT UIM, LIM, & Cams

Torsen LSD // Dual Friction // KKM // Poly Mounts // ?Mystery Mod? // Actually Running!

205 hp @ 6500RPM 180 tq @ 4250RPM

This guy has extra mods on top of the SVT intakes and cams and still only has 10 more hp. For that extra $1000+ you spend why not stick with a full 3L. The $1000 pays for half the Thomas Knight supercharger kit.

[warmonger]

That was 355wHP with standard correction factored in earlier this year in Montgomery AL. 70F day with close to standard atmospheric pressure, around 29.92

Anyway, that was straight onto the dyno right off the highway and 3 runs later I validated my awesome tuning abilities... lol

Also, that was with SVT cams, SVT intake system and a fully working IMRC system, full 2.5" exhaust with a working catalytic converter, resonator and two mufflers, and an atmospheric dump wastegate.
Got the video of it too. :D

[99CougarNy]

whats it take in full to get one of these full 3L's going?
3L engine (escape), taurus uim, gasgets, computer (now that adc isn't around, you have to get the xcal?), braze the fuel lines, clevite rods, and ecr tube ... thats about $1,500 if you do it all yourself? sound about right?

[RodneyBur]

whats it take in full to get one of these full 3L's going?
3L engine (escape), taurus uim, gasgets, computer (now that adc isn't around, you have to get the xcal?), braze the fuel lines, clevite rods, and ecr tube ... thats about $1,500 if you do it all yourself? sound about right?

You could do a STOCK 3l swap under 600 if using a SVT ECU and all your other stock cougar parts. Kinda break down like this:

ENGINE: 300 should have less than 40k
SVT ECU: 60
PATS REPROGRAM: 40
EGR TUBE WELD: 50 <--- guess
FUEL LINE BRAZING: 75 <-- guess
MISC GASKETS PARTS FLUIDS: 75

Anything more that you want just add it onto the price. Want a tune? Add 400. Want aftermarket parts? Add them in.

[99CougarNy]

i just did some reading, and it seems that a stock 3L can handle 5-8 psi without a problem. I found this listed here on newcougar as well as over on the CEG boards ... i would love to drop a full 3L in, with clevite bearings, balance it and all and then drop a very small turbo on it ... just enough to get me close to the 275-300 whp mark. 300 has been my goal for years, but i've never wanted to spend the cash. I figure i could safely drop a 3L in myself with a custom built turbo for under 3,000. Especially if i do the welding and all myself. I think 6 PSI or so on a stock 3L with an optimized y pipe, and exhaust should throw down a good 275-300wHP.

[Blackcoog]

In a recent post over on CEG a 3L SVT Contour with 3L heads, SVT intakes and SVT Cams without any other mods put down 199hp on a dynojet AFTER being tuned. Still think the SVT parts are worth the money?

Here is the post: http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=3L&Number=1272823&Forum=All_Forums&Words=25803&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=1272823&Search=true#Post1272823

[GrandMasterKhan]

of course doesnt your 3.0 oval port have 220whp? your using the SVT intake manifolds right? and nanadora is about 226 whp with a similar setup.

[FastCougar]

Yes, but the engine was BRAND NEW ... breaking in the engine alone could add 10hp down the line I got her 3L running last night at 11:42pm and she was on the dynojet for a tune by 10:30am this morning.Also, every dyno is different. And yes, I would prefer to move my power band higher up into the useable RPM range of say 5,500-7,000 because by then, the car already has traction.

[99CougarNy]

in theory, and the only reason i keep bringing up these questions in this thread is because they're all full 3L questions, wouldn't a 01 taurus/sable engine be a direct swap, besides the EGR and fuel lines? but the uim would fit, and you would just have to balance the crank? therefore making it the cheapest 3L swap option.

[ilovemycar]

I figure i could safely drop a 3L in myself with a custom built turbo for under 3,000. Especially if i do the welding and all myself. I think 6 PSI or so on a stock 3L with an optimized y pipe, and exhaust should throw down a good 275-300wHP.

3L and turbo for under 3K...optimized y-pipe with a turbo kit?

good luck with doing all that for under 3K...and yes...you will have one hell of an "optimized y-pipe" with your turbo :rofl: ...optimized to go up towards the battery that is ;)

You have no idea how to build a turbo kit do you?

[99CougarNy]

hey guy, sorry i don't know what i was thinking when i was typing ... wastegate throws out to the exhaust, doesn't it?
and to answer your question, no i've never built a turbo, not did that much studying on it as i wasn't thinking of doing a 3L with a turbo till instigator and a little research made me realize a small psi turbo could be had for under $2,000 ... 2 piping kits for around $400, BOV, wastegate, turbo (found a t3 .63? for under $500), intercooler for under $200, etc ... thanks instigator ...

but after all your commenting, still no answer ...
would a 01 taurus/sable engine be the cheapest swap?
if you left the uim on, you could elimate having to replace all of thos gaskets and what not?

[StealthyWeasel]

im sorry man I don't think you could do it. Its a nightmare. Just get an SC make it easy..

[Blackcoog]

of course doesnt your 3.0 oval port have 220whp? your using the SVT intake manifolds right? and nanadora is about 226 whp with a similar setup.

Only because I have an intake, exhaust, headers, knife edged TB and LIM butterflies, etc all on top of my 3L. If a full 3L had that I would be it would come close to the same power output. We just don't have anyone running one like that.

[SpookSVT]

I have zero traction problems in 1st. I still need some practice w/ this car and then I'll launch it and let you all know how it is. I have to ease into it anyway because of the SVT intakes, then when the secondaries open and there is a tremendous rush in power and the tires still hold without flinching.

I'm not using SVT intakes again even without secondaries because they weren't matched to the 3L cams. I think the variable runner design was great for giving the 2.5L's some extra lowend but holds my 3L back so much it kills me.

The only major traction problems are with the high powered FI'd cars. Your not going to get around it anyway because of the weak suspension and FWD.

The reason why I say to go full 3L is because 1) it's cheaper 2) TQ curve is taller and a bit flatter than the SVT cams. That gives you alot more usable power than that of the SVT's. 3) They make excllant power up to about 6200RPM's, more with intake and exhaust mods.

The TQ is so great, the car dosn't want to stop pulling untill about 6200-6500RPM's.

I don't see why someone couldn't pull 210-220whp w/ a FULL 3L, headers, catback, an intake & filter, with some good tuning on high test.

[FastCougar]

How is it any cheaper if you already have the SVT components and do the porting yourself? It cost you what ... $50 in porting bits & $6 in JBWeld (or the like).

[SpookSVT]

How is it any cheaper if you already have the SVT components and do the porting yourself? It cost you what ... $50 in porting bits & $6 in JBWeld (or the like).

Cougar owners and non-SVT duratec owners don't have SVT components to begin with, so they'd have to by them at some point. If you have an SVT already then costs are similar. Then again everyone doesn't own an SVT.

[doublebacker4l69]

Just get an SC make it easy..

"a" SC...not "an", lol :tongue:

in theory, and the only reason i keep bringing up these questions in this thread is because they're all full 3L questions, wouldn't a 01 taurus/sable engine be a direct swap, besides the EGR and fuel lines? but the uim would fit, and you would just have to balance the crank? therefore making it the cheapest 3L swap option.

If you're trying to make the cheapest 3.0...why would you even take the heads off and even mess with your internals? That would mean buying new gaskets and head bolts right there. :confused: You can get away without doing that at all...making it the cheapest 3.0 you can make...like me :), simply swapping timing cover, oil pan, grinding down flex bearing (I think that's what it's called), and grinding the spots on your upper motor mount for it to fit in between your heads...that's pretty much it...

[Blackcoog]

How is it any cheaper if you already have the SVT components and do the porting yourself? It cost you what ... $50 in porting bits & $6 in JBWeld (or the like).

As stated above if you don't have a SVT then you don't have to pay for the parts. If you do have the parts you can sell them and make a good deal of money back on them.

[99CougarNy]

doublebacker ... but this will only work with the 01 taurus/sable if i'm not mistaken? the 01 escape uim won't work cause of the height problems. so am i correct in saying 01 taurus engine is the cheapest way to go?

[mond12345]

I have a Sable 3L intake from a 02 just about brand new if someone needed it. Right the Escape one will not fit under the hood.

[RodneyBur]

I think it really depends on what you want. If you want a cheap swap that gives a more power than stock than a straight 3l is the ticket. As I said before I beleive this can be done for under $600 if you just wanted the engine and no addons or updated parts and used all other parts that you already had.

If you want the fastest possible 3.0L you can get without spending the money on a turbo, supercharger, or nitrous then buying or keeping the SVT parts are the way to go. I picked up all my SVT Parts (UIM, LIM, TB, CAMS, Timing Parts) for about $500. Add another 100 for porting/welding costs. It seems by comparing the two "non-aftermarket" 3L in this post I will be picking up an extra 10hp. Thats about $60 per hp. Not too bad I guess, especially comparing some of the other bolts on part costs vs its hp.

If you want to go all out and go turbo, SC, or nitrous then saving the money on SVT parts may help you, but I think it really depends on your plans and the cost of those parts are only a drop in the bucket for a 2-3k set up.

My biggest grumble is that adding a FULL bolt on SVT set up will end up costing around 1600 and only adds a total of about 30hp. This includes everything on the engine that there is to buy that adds hp (intake, headers, pulleys, SVT parts, exhaust). Calculating the per hp cost is comes out to be about 53 dollars per WHP.

The TK SC is costing about 2200 with an estimated hp of 60hp according to the GB info. I'd say add at least another 600 for other stuff (injectors, tuning, etc) just to get it in. That is only costing about $43 per hp, but is still in its early stages of testing. Noone has dyno'd it to prove or disprove its estimates.

Im not sure about a turbo but think it would clost about 4k to get it in and tuned to produce about 150hp. That would make it about $26 per hp.

I think the way to go really depends on your pans and how deep your pockets are. Personally I spent about 4500 on my build which includes everything you can get for the engine (except TC, SC, NOS), tranny and a few other things. Also the cost of the car. I think that the 500 in SVT equipment was just a small part of it and would keep it. I'm hoping for about 230whp so my cost per hp is about $20. I started with no engine or car btw.

If I had a cougar already and wanted to make it fast I would do a straight 3.0 add a TK SC. Total estimated cost: 3500. Estimated power 260whp. Added Hp:100 Cost per HP: 35 . Best way to go IMO.

*all HP estimates are at wheels and most dollar amounts estimated but I'm sure you get the point.

AND yes I said NOS :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[StealthyWeasel]

If I had a cougar already and wanted to make it fast I would do a straight 3.0 add a TK SC. Total estimated cost: 3500. Estimated power 260whp. Added Hp:100 Cost per HP: 35 . Best way to go IMO.



Thats what I just missed. I woulda stay straight 3L and done that.. oh well.

[Blackcoog]

Another example of SVT cams just posted by spridget:

http://newcougar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89951&page=2

He even has headers.

[StealthyWeasel]

possible 87 tune? Seems like svt cams lean towards more HP and less tq, opposite for 3L cams.

[Blackcoog]

possible 87 tune? Seems like svt cams lean towards more HP and less tq, opposite for 3L cams.

Not from what we've seen. The full 3L that I started the post with was: 195hp and 192 torque tuned. Same hp and more tq. Spridgets also has headers, fidanza flywheel, short ram intake, and a trubendz exhaust on top of what the 3L I posted has. You would think it would have way more hp.

I guess it would help if we had the graph from that 195hp 3L. I'll see if I can get him to scan it in.

[RodneyBur]

I think the main difference in the power numbers between a straight 3L and a 3L with 2.5 UIM/LIM/CAMS (be it svt or not) would be the fact that NEARLY ALL modified 3L have the 2.5 Butterfly set up still in it. I can only recall seeing one maybe two people that have the SVT CAMS/UIM/LIM on a 3L with no secondaries. Anyone have a graph of these on a dyno?

[FastCougar]

I can say without a doubt that there is something wrong with Spridget's car. He should be well over the 200hp mark!

[StealthyWeasel]

I can say without a doubt that there is something wrong with Spridget's car. He should be well over the 200hp mark!

ok so he said it, not me this time. I was thinking it though.. :shrug:

[ilovemycar]

I can say without a doubt that there is something wrong with Spridget's car. He should be well over the 200hp mark!

I would have to say the same thing. I would have to say a fully botled on 3L with SVT stuff should be AT LEAST 215 if not 220.

[Blackcoog]

I would agree it seems out of the normal but not unheard of. Ok we need to come up with a new term for the 3L with the SVT parts (SVT cams, SVT manifolds and ported heads). How about the "3L SVT" (more suggestions welcome). There have been few SVT Contour guys that have posted low numbers also with the 3L SVT. I'll see if I can dig them up. I doubt Spridget would post his numbers up in the 3L section if he thought there was something wrong with it. I'm sure we will have a much better idea when all the current 3L builds get dynoed. I just sold another 3L Contour and I'm pushing him to get it dyno tuned so we can see if that initial one was a freak.

[FastCougar]

3L Hybrid - 3L block/2.5L heads (cams don't matter and SVT vs Non-SVT heads don't matter)

3L SVT - Full 3L w/ SVT cams (UIM/LIM don't matter)

That's how I see it anyway.

[FastCougar]

I would agree it seems out of the normal but not unheard of. Ok we need to come up with a new term for the 3L with the SVT parts (SVT cams, SVT manifolds and ported heads). How about the "3L SVT" (more suggestions welcome). There have been few SVT Contour guys that have posted low numbers also with the 3L SVT. I'll see if I can dig them up. I doubt Spridget would post his numbers up in the 3L section if he thought there was something wrong with it. I'm sure we will have a much better idea when all the current 3L builds get dynoed. I just sold another 3L Contour and I'm pushing him to get it dyno tuned so we can see if that initial one was a freak.Unless the dyno is at 4K+ ft. altitude, there is definitely something amiss (slipping clutch maybe?)

[AndyMan]

does anyone know if Spridget had 18 inch plus or higher rims on???

[Blackcoog]

Shouldn't matter what rims he has on unless they were made of lead or he didn't size his tire correctly. I dynoed with my 18's on.

[StealthyWeasel]

what did you dyno yours on, by the way?

[AndyMan]

well.. the stock 15's are like 15lbs... my 18's are 30 lbs... without the tire.. i know that would make a difference if i dyno'd again... :(

[warmonger]

Not from what we've seen. The full 3L that I started the post with was: 195hp and 192 torque tuned. Same hp and more tq. Spridgets also has headers, fidanza flywheel, short ram intake, and a trubendz exhaust on top of what the 3L I posted has. You would think it would have way more hp.

I guess it would help if we had the graph from that 195hp 3L. I'll see if I can get him to scan it in.

Yea, but that is ONE dud dyno or car (however you look at it), the history of dyno runs shows significant improvement in base power with just the SVT cams. The SVT manifolds are USUALLY better than the normal non-svt manifolds but sometimes the normal ones will be winners and do really well. The agressive timing in the pcm helps too so its a total package.

If it were me, I wouldn't spring for the extra parts costs when I could do a 3L with converted/ported cougar intakes on it with a set of headers and probably make almost as good power. I'd spend the difference on a chip and maybe the SVT cams since those are definitely worth the money.
A stock properly ported hybrid or 3L with svt cams in an SVT will set down 190s-210ish range almost every time with little or no extra work.
I've seen multiple SVTs with just a 3L longblock and svt hardware with stock exhaust and intake set down 195whp over the years.

[ilovemycar]

Yea, but that is ONE dud dyno or car (however you look at it), the history of dyno runs shows significant improvement in base power with just the SVT cams.

Ya i would say it's a bad dyno or something too. I can't see a 3L gaining 20-25whp from just a tune with ALL ELSE being stock. If that 3L made that much power on that dyno...take your cougar with SVT cams to that same dyno on the same day and see how much power it makes...i bet it would be in the 220 range lol.