2.0 vs. 2.5

[Spakes]

I have a 2001 Cougar 2.0 I4 VCT MTX. I went to the strip the other day and ran one run. When I got to the line I looked over and seen what I was running. To my surprize it was another Cougar. My time was 9.8 sec. (this is an 1/8th mi. drag.) His was a 10.4. After the run we went and parked to look at eachothers cars. Thats where I found out that he has the 2.5 V6 MTX. He couldn't figure out why I ran a better time than he ever has. I eventually told him what I had done to the Cougar and he then understood.

[skull_heaven]

cool that's sweet

[InnovaZero]

9.8? What mods have you done...

[BigBalledOX]

What the crap is a "VCT"?

[InnovaZero]

Ford's version of Variable valve timing, spakes I'm guessing you are running 15.5 1/4th area.

[GrandMasterKhan]

so what do you have done?

[bdiddy]

What the crap is a "VCT"?


variable cam timing. it's an emissions thing

[bdiddy]

oh, and unless you have some pretty good mods, I'm gonna have to call :bs:

[BigBalledOX]

Considering I ran a 9.7 1/8th mile time on my way to a 14.8 quarter, I'm with the buffy on this one . . .

[jaa55]

No i buy that, ive heard stories of 300 hp out of the zetec(with plenty of mods). if the 2.5 cougar was practically stock the 2.0 with mods could take it. the VCT isnt just an emissions thing it helps alot with the performance. its like having many sets of cams installed in the motor, the computer just rotates the cam to change it. ive seen zetecs with half the teeth on the timing belt gone and it still runs, the computer just keeps throwing it back in time. its a good setup :thumbsup:

[Ness1216]

Its definately not for performance, its like having many steps of bad cams for the motor.

[InnovaZero]

I'm not disputing the engines potental, I'm just curious...anything short of F/I is going to take ALOT of mods to get insane power. Maybe stroking the motor, building internals, etc...but thats costly as all heck.

[jaa55]

Its definately not for performance, its like having many steps of bad cams for the motor.

thats probably why they use the VCT in the Jaguars (192hp 2.5L & 227hp 3.0L) and Lincoln LS (232hp 3.0L), because it kills hp right? :crazy:

[JacobS]

Maybe stroking the motor

AWESOME!!! jk ik what u meant

i with Buff on this one

[Ness1216]

thats probably why they use the VCT in the Jaguars (192hp 2.5L & 227hp 3.0L) and Lincoln LS (232hp 3.0L), because it kills hp right? :crazy:

Maybe you should do some research, VCT is used on the Zetecs for emissions.

The Duratec uses a different system called VVT. Same concpet except its actually made to make power.

Compare the Focus Zetec and the Cougar Zetec. Focus Zetec make 5 more hp and 5 more ft lbs of torque. Without VCT OMG whats wrong here?

Unplug your vct harness to your sensor and all that will happen is your check engine light will come on. No power difference whatsoever.

Im with Timmy on this, BS all the way.

[bdiddy]

we need a smiley that says "I'm with Timmy" :rofl:

[jaa55]

Um im pretty sure thats not the reason why they picked up 5 hp, more likely because the focus motor is very very different than the escort and cougar 2.0. many changes were made to it since then including a COP plug system, the head is completely different so making the comment that dropping the VCT is what made the 5 hp is a very very stupid comment

[Ness1216]

Really I didnt know the focus Zetec had COP, any proof? Im prtty sure just the duratec 2.0 and 2.3's use it. Also I can put a focus intake cam in my cougar zetec, wow the head must not be that different then right? Also I seem to remember the whole valvetrain being swappable onto a cougar. Weird huh? Mechanical tappets are the same as my cougar and guess what gasp, I have focus zetec mechanical tappets in m head right now. Surely my engine canty run since they are completely different right?

[bdiddy]

yeah ness, VCT is like the VTEC of ford :rofl: it gives us like 30 extra hp

[jaa55]

ah nevermind, i retract the previous statement i was comparing it to the duratec 2.0 :cover:. but still none the less its possible to make a 2.0 cougar out run a V6. i mean my 2.5l is quick but its no race car stock. its not that hard to believe that a zetec cougar out ran a 2.5 if it had work done to it.

[bdiddy]

stock for stock it's not incredibly hard to believe, so long the v6 driver sucks. but the zetec definately has more potential than the v6 duratec IMO.

[GrandMasterKhan]

I will say the 2.0 has more potential than the 2.5L. sure. But....The 3.0 duratec however is nothing to shake a stick at. Can anyone say Nobel M12 twin turbo 3.0 duratec? :evil:

Apples to oranges. The 2.0 may have alot of aftermarket support. But honestly How many cougar/contour owners have a heavily built 2.0? (i am talking turbo with 300-500hp). None. How many cougars/contours are there pushing 300-500hp with a turbo or s/c V6 (either 2.5 or 3.0)? quite a few. Just check out CEG.

You can do a 3.0 engine swap for pennies comparied to a built 2.0. Then obtain 300whp with a basic turbo system on ALL stock internals with a meaty powerband. You might be able to obtain a peaky 300whp with a 2.0 but with all the internal work you'll need to get there I just dont see the point of saying "well the 2.0 has more potential" It costs big bucks to get big hp from ANY motor.

I would rather have a starting point which will ulitmatly give you a much more drivable power band.

[B3NN3TT]

Note how the VCT Zetec has no EGR valve. VCT is used to modulate exhaust gases for emissions purposes, in place of an EGR valve.

[bdiddy]

Apples to oranges. The 2.0 may have alot of aftermarket support. But honestly How many cougar/contour owners have a heavily built 2.0? (i am talking turbo with 300-500hp). None. How many cougars/contours are there pushing 300-500hp with a turbo or s/c V6 (either 2.5 or 3.0)? quite a few. Just check out CEG.
.



there are quite a few.....but how many cougars? lol


but i do agree with you, the duratec has some good potential, but I think comparing the 3L contour engine to the Noble is definately apples and oranges:rofl:

[GrandMasterKhan]

Contours dont come with a 3L. It just so happens the guys on CEG are more set on performance than we cougar people. Same engines, same platform. ANYTHING they do we can do just the same.

You DO realise that the nobel uses an Escape 3L duratec. There is nothing special about the Nobel motor any Neco/CEG member couldnt build similarly or havnt already. (ok it does have oil squirters in the oil pan.)

[sdcougar00]

is there a vct setup for a 2.5?

[BigBalledOX]

is there a vct setup for a 2.5?


. . .

NO! :banghead:

[bdiddy]

. . .

NO! :banghead:


:rofl: he wants that domestic vtec powa:rofl:

[bdiddy]

You DO realise that the nobel uses an Escape 3L duratec. There is nothing special about the Nobel motor any Neco/CEG member couldnt build similarly or havnt already. (ok it does have oil squirters in the oil pan.)


probably the same block? i would think that they have different heads, pistons, cams, crankshaft, and everything else? but that's just my guess. it's like the 2jz in the tt supra, and the 2jz in the is300. same engine, kinda, but the supra has definately been beefed up.

[GrandMasterKhan]

No it has stock crank. The duratec crank is good to 1200hp STOCK. It also is using stock heads, likely ported and polished. It is using ST220 cams.

I am sure it has fordged pistons and rods, rod bearings etc. Like I said nothing special which any neco member (*cough DanG*) hasnt already done.

Just to give you an idea the nobel M12 stock is just as fast as the Ferrari Enzo.

A guy on the nobel forums just tuned his to the sweet tune of 488whp and 530wtq.

[ForeverDreamin]

OK so did anyone figure out what is in the engine of the 4cyl Cougar that barely beat the V6? maybe i missed it in the midst of reading the talk about everything but the car the post is about?

[GrandMasterKhan]

Well if the V6's secondaries are not working then it would loose 30hp up top and i wouldnt doubt it if a 4cyl would be able to take it then ESPECIALLY if the V6 is a ATX.

[InnovaZero]

Well if the V6's secondaries are not working then it would loose 30hp up top and i wouldnt doubt it if a 4cyl would be able to take it then ESPECIALLY if the V6 is a ATX.

Yeah no secondaries equals = SUCK on the v6's. I pull hard in 1st and 2nd, but 3rd flys till about 4 grand and then just SLOOOOW's the rev's to a crawl.

[vick]

The duratec crank is good to 1200hp STOCK

hahahhahahahaha yeah that might be true for the cams but the bearings sure dont last at that power band

[GrandMasterKhan]

I said the Crankshaft. Its fordged and hasnt broken on anyone with tube frame drag cougars running 1200+ and 7 second 1/4 mile @ 200 mph.

Just a nice lil fact about the duratec's internals.

I dont see what HP has to do with wear on the cams. But ok.

[vick]

i ment the crankshaft bearings

[Tygerr]

Yeah no secondaries equals = SUCK on the v6's. I pull hard in 1st and 2nd, but 3rd flys till about 4 grand and then just SLOOOOW's the rev's to a crawl.

You been to the track yet man? This is what HAS to be killing my 1/4 mile time. You should head out to trails with me the beginning of next month.

[InnovaZero]

You been to the track yet man? This is what HAS to be killing my 1/4 mile time. You should head out to trails with me the beginning of next month.

No I want to though, maybe on a test and tune night. I'm gonna try cleaning the thing, or maybe even replacing it. I don't wanna get that crazy till I get some track times though.

But yeah, that sounds cool...I'll get back to you on it.

I know it is killing you 1/4th mile after 70mph or so. With your mods, you should be quite a good deal faster.

[Tygerr]

I'm not sure if it is the secondaries. It makes sense since it bogs when they're supposed to kick on, but why only in third gear?

[GrandMasterKhan]

because you wont notice it as much in the first 2 gears on the 1/4 track. Its also possible they are fluttering and not able to open fully.

[Tygerr]

Thanks man. I'll have to check this out again. Last I checked the motor worked, frustrating.

I wonder if it'd be possible to replace the motor with some other mechanical device, something a bit more reliable. Like a relay and a .... drawing a blank. Just an idea I suppose, not sure how easy it would be to implement. Has that been discussed before?

[azbobbybooshay10]

Its also possible the V6 driver was either a crappy driver or new to the car. When I took my MTX to the track the first time, I ran something like a 16.2. I've since gotten it down to a 15.5, but its just getting to know the car better. If the Zetec is modded, and the MTX was stock, I can see it happening.

[rb26deet32]

Its also possible the V6 driver was either a crappy driver or new to the car. When I took my MTX to the track the first time, I ran something like a 16.2. I've since gotten it down to a 15.5, but its just getting to know the car better. If the Zetec is modded, and the MTX was stock, I can see it happening.

Yea but can you see the Zetec running those times? Thats not much slower than my civic and I had 233whp... Turbo lag I guess.

[DROPdatSCORT]

quite a few zx2's i know its 400-500 lbs lighter than the cougar has the same engine and quite a few people with basic mods on team zx2 have hit 15.3-5 area

I/H/E/UDP

[gyger]

You guys are all mentioning "if" the V6 had problems the 2L would beat
it. That time looks around normal for a stock MTX 2.5L but what could
this kid have done to pull a 9.8 1/8th?
9.8 is low 15's possibly high 14's I haven't seen a 2L Cougar do that
without F/I.

[BigBalledOX]

You guys are all mentioning "if" the V6 had problems the 2L would beat
it. That time looks around normal for a stock MTX 2.5L but what could
this kid have done to pull a 9.8 1/8th?
9.8 is low 15's possibly high 14's I haven't seen a 2L Cougar do that
without F/I.

Lie. Over and over and over and over again. (http://www.newcougar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98823)

[shadowfox28]

lol someone called him a tool

[BigBalledOX]

lol someone called him a tool

If we put you and him in the same room it'll be a toolbox!

[gyger]

Lie. Over and over and over and over again. (http://www.newcougar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98823)

Oh I see that sucks I wasted time reading this sh!t:banghead: