D2 system legal in STS AutoX?

[GI8U2racing]

I am trying to stay in the STS autocross category, so would the D2 system be allowed. Page 90 here for the STS rules on struts: http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf

[sonza68]

The short answer is yes.

The wording is confusing, but the D2s use the stock mounting positions and maintain the same spring type (coil). STS also allow for the modification of the spring perches including adjustable positions.

[GI8U2racing]

Wow, these seem like they would give me a huge advantage. I thought I saw somewhere that I couldn't have that many adjustments, but i couldn't find it, so I guess these are fine. I already have the RSB, RSTB, Stazi Endlinks, and all the engine mod's I can do for STS, so I should be quite competitive.

[GI8U2racing]

And oh yeah, what about rear stabilizers like StangKillr makes? Are those legal in STS? I would make a new thread, but then I started half the threads in this section!

[sonza68]

Based on my understanding of the rules, I'd say yes.

[bensenvill]

really?? I wouldnt have expected the rear stabilizers to be acceptable

[sonza68]

Para 14.8.I.2
On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the
lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of
camber adjustment as allowed by paragraphs 14.8.B, C, or G
may be used, but not both.
As long you aren't using camber modifying bushings, bolts or plates you can.

[GI8U2racing]

That is right, but then you can't adjust your camber ever, which I think is more valuable, especially if getting the D2 system.

[sonza68]

There are no camber plates avaliable for the rear, so the only way to get camber in the rear would be through modifying the lateral arms. On the front you won't be able to change the lower control arms if you use camber plates.

[GI8U2racing]

Well then, that changes everything. Now I might just have to get some of those rear stabilizers. So how do you change your camber? Just when you get it aligned? Wouldn't lowering the D2 setup effectively give you more camber as well, so is that a good way to gauge it? Or are the rear stabilizers adjustable?

[sonza68]

I don't think the stabilizer arms themselves are adjustable, but the point where they attach to the subframe has room for adjustment. Although to use the adjustment to get camber as would involve modifying the forward arm as well. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing off the shelf for the foreward arm except for reinforcement plates.

It doesn't seem like the Cougars have much camber gain as the suspension compresses (unfortunantly), so just lowering it won't get you much. On my Roush springs I have -1.5-1.7° in the rear, but I don't feel like I really need any more. The front is where a lot of camber would be beneficial. I've run a couple of seasons and based on the tire wear I've seen makes me think around -2.5° up front would be about right.

[GI8U2racing]

Well I am loving this data. Even with the D2 setup, do you think your numbers will be optimal as well? I know you can't guranteee anything, but as far as you know, should there be any difference? Also, for street/daily driving, do you adjust the camber to reduce tire wear? And finally, how are you measuring all of this so precisely?

[sonza68]

The place I go to for alignments gives me a full print out of camber, caster and to for each corner so I know where I am at right now. The -2.5° is a estimate based on the wear I've seen on my autocross tires. The outsides are wearing faster than the inside and it appears that an extra degree of camber would pretty much even it out.

Unfortunantly the D2s aren't going to come with camber plates. Without modifying the strut towers, they weren't going to be able to adapt their camber plate design. That means I'm going with the BAT ones. From my understading, they will only be able to change camber by about a degree, to -2.5° is about all I'll be able to get anyway.

As for adjusting camber, my Cougar isn't my daily driver, so I'm not too concerned (I drive it about 8000 mi a year now). In the several years I've been lowered with between -1.5° and -1.7° camber I haven't noticed any significant camber related wear. -2.5° might be a different story though.

[GI8U2racing]

Alright, well I have the same amount of miles on my Cougar per year as you it seems, and I will just get the BAT plates and adjust the front when it's time to autocross. What can we take out of the cougar legally for STS? I assume we have similar rules for SM and STS. I wouldn't mind removing: rear fold-down seats, hatch cover, rear seatbelts, rear windshield wiper, passenger airbag, the big white reinforcements behind the bumper(s) (not sure if front has them)...those are just a few things i can think of other than the obvious spare/jack. What all can we remove legally?

[sonza68]

I actually run DSP now, SM was a misclassing on my part. In STS, there isn't much you can remove. Pretty much just the following:
- spare, jack, trunk floor panel, floor mats
- trim pieces (specifically: emblems, rub strips and mud flaps)
- front seats can be replaced, but the replacements must weight at least 15 lbs.

SP doesn't allow much either. SM is where you can start tearing stuff out. SM allows replacement hoods, fenders, hatches, rear seat removal, etc.

[GI8U2racing]

I know you can remove the spoiler, what do you think about this? Obviously at these speeds it isn't doing anything. It is high up and probably just drag. I just dont know what I'd plug the holes with to make it look decent...

[sonza68]

Plugging the holes is part of the reason I haven't done it. That, and I have a body kit which I don't feel like removing, and I drive an ATX. It would remove some weight, but probably not enough to make a measurable difference.

[jaged]

ahhh you just dont drive fast enough tom :biggrin:

you can take all the stuff out and run SM but the car is only 25% of the time, you need to be fast first as a driver

[sonza68]

I'd like to argue with you, but the standings from last year would confirm that. :( I lost to a 240...twice.