View Full Version : 3L ATX vs. 350Z
BobKaBob
01-31-2006, 12:35 AM
Sunday night me and my GF went to dinner, on the way back there is this 2 lane turnpike that turns into a 2 lane highway. So were driving home when this stock(as far as I could see/hear) 350z pulls up fast on me, slows to my speed, then guns it. I met him at the next light which changed green before we stopped at the line, We were both side by side going about 10-15mph. When the light turned, we both mashed it, he had a constant pull on me, almost cleared my front bumper than had to shift, where he lost about 1/2 car length. kept pulling and falling to about 80mph where I stopped racing, admiting defeat.
So about 1/2 mile down the road it tuns to a perfectly straight downhill highway, he waits for me, then pulls right beside me, I give a nod and we both drop it again at about 60mph. Once I reached 120 I figured I was going fast enough and looked beside me, no 350... I pulled 2 whole car lengths on him in a 60-120 run!
Rent 350's supposed to be fast? ;) Getting beat to an ATX cougar is pretty silly.
gyger
01-31-2006, 01:16 AM
I'm surprised you pulled on him at all.
Good runs man sounds like fun.
What do you have done to your 3L cause I can't imaging it going any faster than a 14.8 in the 1/4 and I know
the 350Z could do better than that. Maybe the guy wasn't such a great driver.
Either way a W is a W ;thumbsup:
BobKaBob
01-31-2006, 01:51 AM
oh yeah... I havent put up my setup on here yet huh?
01 escape block
PnP 2.5L Heads w/ 3L valves and ST200 springs
SVT cams
Level 10 Torque converter
Lightened pullies
SVT UIM/TB/LIM
Injen intake
CustomCougars CAI extension
Weapon-R headers w/ JetHot
Trubendz Y-pipe
Vitek Plug wires
Denso Iridium plugs
SVT radiator and stand alone transmission cooler
Polyurathane filled motor mounts (front and rear only)
OEM style CF hood, few other small weight reductions
... i think thats it... note that i still am using stock injectors, no tuning, and stock exhaust... the exhaust is stock because i sold mine and the buyer cheated me out of the $400 i was supposed to get, ended up destroying the exhaust and now refueses to pay for it. Stock tuning and injectors because with my chip, the OBD drive cycles were not completing, so inorder to remove the chip, i had to replace the stock injectors... still pulls just as hard, but dosent have the down low TQ as with the bigger injectors.
I also have on a buddy club 2 front bumper, but i dont give that any credit for making my car faster ;)
In comparison, in septemeber i raced a 99 SVT tour, he had exhaust, intake, clutch, flywheel, and diff... he jumped out on me at the green light, but could only hold the 1/2 car length the entire 0-100mph run... and it was a good driver in that race.
Jaguars
01-31-2006, 01:51 AM
Sunday night me and my GF went to dinner, on the way back there is this 2 lane turnpike that turns into a 2 lane highway. So were driving home when this stock(as far as I could see/hear) 350z pulls up fast on me, slows to my speed, then guns it. I met him at the next light which changed green before we stopped at the line, We were both side by side going about 10-15mph. When the light turned, we both mashed it, he had a constant pull on me, almost cleared my front bumper than had to shift, where he lost about 1/2 car length. kept pulling and falling to about 80mph where I stopped racing, admiting defeat.
So about 1/2 mile down the road it tuns to a perfectly straight downhill highway, he waits for me, then pulls right beside me, I give a nod and we both drop it again at about 60mph. Once I reached 120 I figured I was going fast enough and looked beside me, no 350... I pulled 2 whole car lengths on him in a 60-120 run!
Rent 350's supposed to be fast? ;) Getting beat to an ATX cougar is pretty silly.
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE
BigBalledOX
01-31-2006, 01:56 AM
Even if he's a bad driver - and I'm not trying to take away anything from you here man, but I think that plays a part in it - that is still a damn nice kill in any book.
Nafunu32
01-31-2006, 02:59 AM
Great job. Love to read stories like this.... and the ones about teenage Civics with exhaust thinkin they can beat anything.
recliner15
01-31-2006, 08:55 AM
Great job. Love to read stories like this.... and the ones about teenage Civics with exhaust thinkin they can beat anything.
The best ones.. by far
Tygerr
01-31-2006, 12:51 PM
The only thing you've done to the tranny is upgrade the torque converter? Any slipping or what not?
Nice though, the autos seriously do seem to like it more up top then down low.
Nafunu32
01-31-2006, 12:56 PM
The only thing you've done to the tranny is upgrade the torque converter? Any slipping or what not?
Nice though, the autos seriously do seem to like it more up top then down low.
Will this change any with a 3.0l swap with the escape block and cams, being that it has a good amount of torque?
Nemesis
01-31-2006, 01:53 PM
Will this change any with a 3.0l swap with the escape block and cams, being that it has a good amount of torque?
OMG man, shut up.
InnovaZero
01-31-2006, 02:42 PM
The only thing you've done to the tranny is upgrade the torque converter? Any slipping or what not?
Nice though, the autos seriously do seem to like it more up top then down low.
Yeah, I'd slap a tranny cooler on as well.
Yeah, our auto's don't seem to like standing still starts, but they do provide good passing power, with good top end.
BobKaBob
01-31-2006, 06:18 PM
The only thing you've done to the tranny is upgrade the torque converter? Any slipping or what not?
Nice though, the autos seriously do seem to like it more up top then down low.
She wont squeel tires in 1st anymore (I did and did alot right after i put the new motor in), and the shift solenoid crapped the bed, but luckily it only acts up in hot weather (80+)... so up high it runs fine, but my launches are seriously slow... once it hits 3500rpms though, she puts down the power.
I figure i'd rather not replace the solenoid and hope its not slipping anymore, but instead do the MTX swap, now alls i gotta do is find a wrecked tour or coug and a buttload of money (yes a 'buttload' is a unit of measure to me). but the trannys is rated for 300HP, i think its breaking point is a little shy of that mark for constant full throttle assualt...
RodneyBur
01-31-2006, 06:25 PM
OMG man, shut up.
:rofl:
Whiskey
01-31-2006, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Nemesis
OMG man, shut up
Funny:rofl:
Nafunu32
01-31-2006, 10:28 PM
Extremely funny... torque = get up and go... so I figured since the freakin escape is to power an suv, that the low end torque would in fact help our low speeds... if I'm not correct then say so.
And for some reason, perhaps my maturity, I didn't find "OMG man, shut up" funny, even if it was directed to someone else. But, to make the black race happy, we must all laugh at retarded jokes to keep the NAACP away.
StealthyWeasel
01-31-2006, 10:58 PM
we must all laugh at retarded jokes to keep the NAACP away.
LOL
Nafunu32
01-31-2006, 11:08 PM
I mean, damn... that was pointless. Yeah I didn't notice that the forum said 3l vs 350z, thats why i asked if a 3.0l swap with the escape would help out. Because our cougars just aren't quick....
BobKaBob
02-01-2006, 12:29 AM
I dont get it, what have you guys been talking about? Would a 3L help out what? Why is the NAACP involved now? :confused:
Anywho... Is it the torque converter youre asking about? I have no clue what you origionally asked...
Of course a 3L will help a cougar... Like the old Gran Turismo slogan:"theres no replacement for displacement" the escape 3Ls have roughly +30Hp/+30Tq more than the 2.5s.
What kinda sucks about the Level 10 torque converter is its high stall speed, so even before the slippage, she would rev to 1500-2000 from a stop in order to get a normal driving start... feels like a standard where you rev the engine to 2 grand before you let the clutch out... just a wierd sensation for an ATX. but of course, the high stall speed means for better lauches provided the rest of the tranny isn't slipping and crappy form a solenoid problem... like mine :(
Tygerr
02-01-2006, 12:29 AM
I mean, damn... that was pointless. Yeah I didn't notice that the forum said 3l vs 350z, thats why i asked if a 3.0l swap with the escape would help out. Because our cougars just aren't quick....
Give up while you're ahead..... Don't take things too seriously, and try to search a bit more please?
Anyway, I agree, buttload is an amount of money. It's more then most people have, lol. Was it really that high, 300HP? Maybe that's the point the tranny just gives up and explodes. Good luck on the swap though, post pics and keep us updated on that.
Edit: Nah man. You pretty much answered my question, I have no clue what kind of tantrum they're going off on. I would think the high stall would help degrade the tranny's life quicker, it's basically power braking your car..... everytime you drive.
BobKaBob
02-01-2006, 12:35 AM
Give up while you're ahead..... Don't take things too seriously, and try to search a bit more please?
Anyway, I agree, buttload is an amount of money. It's more then most people have, lol. Was it really that high, 300HP? Maybe that's the point the tranny just gives up and explodes. Good luck on the swap though, post pics and keep us updated on that.
300 is what i've heard, but i dont think anyone has actually gotten close to the 300hp mark besides probibly me and george... of course mine will show alot more damage since n/a power is always available (and always being used) as opposed to the instinces george uses his nitrous, whitch i can only assume wouldn't be at every stop sign, red light, and passing people, like how mine gets used.
Speaking of witch, George: What have you done to your tranny? Hows it holding up? What is your estimated flywheel HP with the spray? I'd like to get a comparison to see if they truly are 300HP units
IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE EDIT:
Actually a high stall is better for an ATX due to the fact you dont have to power brake as much... the torque conveter itself must be driven faster to achieve the same result, giving the fluid lockup mode in a higher RPM bracket.. so instead of lockup at 1500rpms, the converter will slip untill 3400rpms, right where the power from the seconddaries start to kick in. So in theory, you do not need to power brake a high stall since once you mash the gas, the engine will almost jump right to 2700 (slightly before the rated stall speed since it still has to overcome inertia of the veichle) and start moving. Its just like revving the engine more before engaging the clutch, just its all fluid drive.... transmission input speed will not be affected, merely the engine will have more HP at 2700 than at 1500...
Wow that hurt my brain.... hopefully you can understand what i'm trying to get at...
Nemesis
02-01-2006, 12:36 AM
Don't take things too seriously,
A
Actually, please take things seriously, and leave ;)
Nafunu32
02-01-2006, 01:18 AM
Thats ok, i'll stay.
BigBalledOX
02-01-2006, 01:26 AM
Well this is gettin locked. Good job jacking up an otherwise interesting thread.
Nafunu32
02-01-2006, 01:29 AM
How so? I asked the simple question of "would escape cams help the launch time of an ATX cougar" since the original poster complained about how slow our cars launch. Leave it to Nem to say something retarded and screw everything up.
So, hopefully you did not point that comment at me, but for some reason I feel that you did since you follow Nem around posting "lol" after every attempt of sarcasm to me. Grow up guys... damn
Nafunu32
02-01-2006, 01:30 AM
oh, I just tried searching for my question, no answers. Thanks guys for making a pointless remark of the typical "search" comment.
BobKaBob
02-01-2006, 01:39 AM
cams depend highly on application... i cant remember off the top of my head but there are cam setups from mazda 6, SVT contour, stock, and 3l cams that provide different results.
my car launces slow because of the torque converter and the fact it slips due to a faulty shift soleniod... both which i commented on earlier...
I like this thread, can we all stop playing around now so i dont miss out on some good information here... we dont need this thread locked. its a good story and we have a good topic going.. lets not ruin it please.
Nafunu32
02-01-2006, 01:46 AM
Look Bob, I never meant to screw anything up. I was asking a simple question, because I would like to know. I was making conversation...
Tygerr
02-01-2006, 04:11 AM
Ok, I understand what you're saying, the torque convertor locks up at a higher rpm. Why doesn't that make it more prone to slipping? I must be missing something, I need to go research auto tranny's again.
I think George just has a tranny cooler, plus like you said earlier, he only sprays between shifts (torque convertors locked) and every so often. The power between shifts (when the torque convertors locking up) is where the damage from the extra torque would be done.
Mtang4life
02-01-2006, 04:39 AM
Ok, Im having a hard time believing the other guy was sereously racing. Either that or a really bad driver.
Even with your motor swap, and neato torque converter your still putting about 200 ish to the wheels if that. That isnt much, I hate to say.
If you won, and both of you were still racing at the point he was behind you, nice kill (take it to the track).
BobKaBob
02-01-2006, 01:05 PM
Ok, I understand what you're saying, the torque convertor locks up at a higher rpm. Why doesn't that make it more prone to slipping? I must be missing something, I need to go research auto tranny's again.
I think George just has a tranny cooler, plus like you said earlier, he only sprays between shifts (torque convertors locked) and every so often. The power between shifts (when the torque convertors locking up) is where the damage from the extra torque would be done.The torque converter does the slipping, but thats the porpouse of any torque converter. Torque converters slip when the car is parked, the transmission does not move at this point, but the engine must still maintain idle it just requires more rotational speed to enagage the transmission imput. The speed at which it hydraulically locks up is variable by the manufacturing method. the converters do the same work, mine just does it 1500rpms later. Same deal with the low speed diesel automatics. They have a redline at roughly 2800rpms, and their idle is nearly 250rpms. The converters in these have a low stall speed of 500 rpms; so it only takes 500rpms to achieve hydraulic lockup.
nafunu- that comment was more directed to george than you, but remember,if your making a post, throw something useful in. Dont just make posts like this:
How so? I asked the simple question of "would escape cams help the launch time of an ATX cougar" since the original poster complained about how slow our cars launch. Leave it to Nem to say something retarded and screw everything up.
So, hopefully you did not point that comment at me, but for some reason I feel that you did since you follow Nem around posting "lol" after every attempt of sarcasm to me. Grow up guys... damnthese kind of posts only spur others on. if you dont have anything useful to add, dont post. you did nothing wrong posting you question, but your reactions to george will only spur him on and get this thread locked.
CougarKid2004
02-02-2006, 12:22 AM
Nice kill :thumbsup:
NorCalCoug
02-02-2006, 08:30 AM
This thread is seriously close to running its course. Keep it on track and stop *****ing at each other please. :)
How torque converters work:
http://www.tciauto.com/tech_info/torque_converters_explained.htm
Tygerr
02-02-2006, 01:53 PM
Wait Bob... do you have any type of tuning? That would seem to make a HUGE difference, plus the whole stock exhaust thing. Your car can't breath!
BobKaBob
02-02-2006, 02:17 PM
Wait Bob... do you have any type of tuning? That would seem to make a HUGE difference, plus the whole stock exhaust thing. Your car can't breath!
tell me about it! Would you like to donate to the 'BobKaBob needs an exhaustand more tuning' fund? ;)
thats not important to me right now, i'll need to fix (replace) transmission before i worry about going any faster.
i figure i'll do the MTX swap... LSD, axles, stage3 clutch... and throw in an exhaust in the mix somewhere...
I've even been playing with the idea of throwing nitrous in he mix and having a track goal of 12.99 or better on drag slicks... i'll determine if this is reasonable once the MTX swap is complete
Nafunu32
02-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Goodluck with the swap Bob, its a goal of mine some day. Poor college kid... ha!
Tygerr
02-03-2006, 03:12 AM
College kid here too, BUT, i graduate in only a few months, but then I'll probalbly be looking into a house and a mortgage and all that gross crap. Oh well, i'll set aside some money. Anyone know of any internships in Ohio for a EE degree?
Good luck Bob.
Nafunu32
02-05-2006, 04:36 AM
Bah, get an apartment for a couple of years and fix the car. lol.... tis only a freshman here.
Tygerr
02-05-2006, 05:42 PM
Bah, get an apartment for a couple of years and fix the car. lol.... tis only a freshman here.
Apartment? Gross, what a waste of money.
cougarf1
02-05-2006, 05:51 PM
In a magazine i read once that a roush cougar with a supercharger and 3.0l did a 30-100mph run FASTER than a lancer evo VII and a STI subie, so i believe that this is possible.
BigBalledOX
02-05-2006, 06:29 PM
In a magazine i read once that a roush cougar with a supercharger and 3.0l did a 30-100mph run FASTER than a lancer evo VII and a STI subie, so i believe that this is possible.
:crazy: Uh . . . did you even READ what this post was about?:rolleyes:
Apartment? Gross, what a waste of money.
What is wrong with apartments? Millions of hard working people live apartments. Whats so gross about that?
Tygerr
02-05-2006, 07:04 PM
What is wrong with apartments? Millions of hard working people live apartments. Whats so gross about that?
Yea. Good for them, hopefully someday I'll own some houses I can rent out to them :biggrin: They'll always be hardworking too, hard at working making that rent check, never getting ahead.
It's just a horrible investment. Might as well cut your paycheck in half and throw it away.
Sorry for the off topic.
RodneyBur
02-06-2006, 02:20 AM
There are some benefits to renting an apartment. No grass cutting, no repairs, and you can piss on the walls and not care. Some people move around more than once a year too (due to jobs or criminal activity). Its very conveinant for some people such as single parents and elderly people. Hell good for he lazy too.
The cost of owning a home is more than just the mortgage which is why some people prefer to rent.
Yea. Good for them, hopefully someday I'll own some houses I can rent out to them :biggrin: They'll always be hardworking too, hard at working making that rent check, never getting ahead.
It's just a horrible investment. Might as well cut your paycheck in half and throw it away.
Sorry for the off topic.
I live in an apartment but I am also military. So I have no intentions of buying a house anytime soon. There are benefits to living in apartments. As for "never getting ahead", I'm sure I'm way ahead of someone like you in every way. Maybe when you grow up you can understand.
BigBalledOX
02-06-2006, 05:49 PM
I live in an apartment but I am also military. So I have no intentions of buying a house anytime soon. There are benefits to living in apartments. As for "never getting ahead", I'm sure I'm way ahead of someone like you in every way. Maybe when you grow up you can understand.
:rolleyes: His point is, you build value by owning a home. With an apartment, you don't. It is possible to get a return on your investment in owning a home. With an apartment, you don't see that money again. Be just a little more holier than thou next time why don't you?
:rolleyes: His point is, you build value by owning a home. With an apartment, you don't. It is possible to get a return on your investment in owning a home. With an apartment, you don't see that money again. Be just a little more holier than thou next time why don't you?
No thanks... :)
BobKaBob
02-06-2006, 06:32 PM
plus, owning property in CT allows you to claim tax deductions like donating money to charity and job-related expenses, which you cannot clim without property ownership.
Whats this have to with Nissans?:confused:
BigBalledOX
02-06-2006, 06:39 PM
It got completely off topic from your kill. It has nothing to do with Nissans unfortunately. But anyways, to keep this on topic, nice kill! :thumbsup:
Tygerr
02-06-2006, 08:49 PM
I live in an apartment but I am also military. So I have no intentions of buying a house anytime soon. There are benefits to living in apartments. As for "never getting ahead", I'm sure I'm way ahead of someone like you in every way. Maybe when you grow up you can understand.
Way to stick you're foot in your mouth. You're 3 years older, you're going to be *ahead* of me, but not for long with that attitude. That just seems a bit insulting, when I grow up. Sheesh
Oh I agree, 350z's are completely sexy as all beasts, however, I still find it rather humerous it lost to a cougar. Good show Bob, good show.
Way to stick you're foot in your mouth. You're 3 years older, you're going to be *ahead* of me, but not for long with that attitude. That just seems a bit insulting, when I grow up. Sheesh
Oh I agree, 350z's are completely sexy as all beasts, however, I still find it rather humerous it lost to a cougar. Good show Bob, good show.
I never said you. I meant someone with your attitude. Dont take it personally.
BOT: Did 350z's have an automatic option?
Tygerr
02-06-2006, 10:40 PM
Ok. Yes, tree fittys came with an automatic transmission. Dumb? I think so. I'm not sure what the difference in 1/4 times are though, I'm sure they are a lot more efficient then the cougars poor excuse for a transmission.
Ok. Yes, tree fittys came with an automatic transmission. Dumb? I think so. I'm not sure what the difference in 1/4 times are though, I'm sure they are a lot more efficient then the cougars poor excuse for a transmission.
LOL yeah tell me about it.
InnovaZero
02-07-2006, 02:33 AM
Manuals run 14.0-14.2
Autos run 14.7-15.0
Tygerr
02-08-2006, 01:39 AM
Wow, they're quick for an auto.
Nafunu32
02-08-2006, 10:00 AM
nice kill... ;)
AEMCougar
02-08-2006, 10:10 PM
Wow, they're quick for an auto.
My stepsister just got an 05 automatic and its damn quick.
GrandMasterKhan
02-09-2006, 12:02 AM
Ouch. Thats like a freaking full second. LOL in that case I can state I am offically faster than a automatic 350z.
Tranny does make all the difference.
As for you Bob, your looking at LEAST another second off your 1/4 with MTX
InnovaZero
02-09-2006, 03:09 AM
Ouch. Thats like a freaking full second. LOL in that case I can state I am offically faster than a automatic 350z.
Tranny does make all the difference.
As for you Bob, your looking at LEAST another second off your 1/4 with MTX
Well yeah, most car's differ about a second between that two, that is unless its a performance auto. I believe the 350's manual run about 230-240 to the wheels vs the autos 210ish.