Stumped when starting my 3.0L for first time!

[ozcoug]

Hi Guys,

I'm building my first 3.0L Hybrid and need some direction. My project so far is:
3.0L Hybrid with SVT Heads and Cams, 3.0L Short Block, MSDS Headers, PnP Heads, etc - basically the most common swap before 3L heads were port matched with the LIM (eg: when I started acculumated parts)...

Right now, I have rebuilt the engine, and put it back in... and am trying to start it minus the struts and axles. The engine sensors/adapters have been plugged back in. Currently, the engine kicks over, but refuses to start. The water pump pulley/belt and serpentine belt slowly rotate when I try to start it. There is spark, air, and fuel. In fact, when I remove a spark plug, there is black (carbon?) buildup starting to accumulate.

Any suggestions guys? I would love the help!

This is a European Cougar, orginally built in Germany.

[ozcoug]

Here is some video/photos that may demonstrate what the problem is...
Linky (http://www.dropshots.com/ozcoug)

[DemonSVT]

Pulse wheel

[RodneyBur]

Now let's all say it together....


OH ****

you have to remove the timing cover again... lots of work.


Here's a thread for ya to read with pictures for illiterates like me.

http://newcougar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80551&highlight=pulse+wheel


GL

[ozcoug]

Hey,

Thanks for the particularly fast response, especially from DemonSVT!

I've added another pic to my collection for further clarification (links to pics (http://www.dropshots.com/ozcoug)). The picture of the pulse wheel is just before I put the engine cover on. You'll notice the little knob on the crank is pointed away from the missing tooth - which is the 2.5L position, isn't it?

According to the link from Rodney, this is the correct position. Subsequently, the pulse wheel is not the culprit. Could someone please clarify this for me?

Thanks all!

[NorCalCoug]

That video really does sound like the pulse wheel is on wrong- I only know because I helped build a 3L hybrid and the pulse wheel was put on wrong.

Your pictures seem to suggest it is in correctly though- though it's hard to tell because you don't have a picture dead on (It's hard to see the key for the wheel at that angle).

Did you check to make sure the spark plug wires were attached correctly? That could be the only other issue I can think of...

[96blackse]

Do you have a chip or is it the stock ECU thats hooked up?

The other thing is spark plugs make sure the order is right and the connections electrical and spark plugs at the coil are good

Did you play around with the wiring at all?

[RodneyBur]

Fuel, Air, Spark

Make sure its getting gas, obviously its getting air, check the spark (in the correct order). Do you have a timing gun? That may help to see if the timing is off .

Double check all your connections and fuses too since a blown fuse may keep it from starting.

[ozcoug]

96BlackSE: Its running stock ECU (temporarily), but using 19" injectors. I didn't muck around with the wiring, but did put some new insulation around some of it.

Rodney: I don't have a timing gun, but did check that the coil pack is plugged i correctly, and to the correct corresponding spark plugs. I have removed the spark plugs and can see some black gunk on them (which were new when I put them in) - indicating that there is spark. I can also smell the gas fumes when I try to start it.

I might start the removal of the engine cover to check the position of the pulse wheel, although I am almost sure - judging from my photos - that it is correct.

Thanks for your help guys!

[RodneyBur]

I bought a cheap timing gun from harbor freight for around $16. I'm not sure how hard it is to remove the timing cover while it is still in the car, but sure does look like a pain in that tight space. Maybe it would be better to buy one and check before going through all that trouble.

[Nafunu32]

Blackcoog told me that my coog wont run my 3.0l with 19# injectors on a stock ECU... i had to order from ADC...:banghead:

[ozcoug]

Woot woot, it works it work it works it works!! I had the spark plug wires in the wrong order.... ok, now to the rest of it back in.. :)

Ok, so i'm a moron, but a happy moron!

!WOOOOOOOT!

[nandalora]

Blackcoog told me that my coog wont run my 3.0l with 19# injectors on a stock ECU... i had to order from ADC...:banghead:

Damn! Did you already order the chip??? I hope not because this is false info. I was convinced of the same thing when building my 3.0L and it's the only thing about my setup that I regret! Forget the chip and have it dyno tuned!!! It WILL run with out a chip on the stock computer, mine did! I drove it without the chip while it was at ADC being reflashed. Bottom line is, you'll get the best tune and for the same price, without all the hassle of waisted money on dyno runs and reflashes. Trust me, after all of that, I'm still gonna get a dyno tune :banghead:

-Nick

[NorCalCoug]

Woot woot, it works it work it works it works!! I had the spark plug wires in the wrong order.... ok, now to the rest of it back in.. :)

Ok, so i'm a moron, but a happy moron!

!WOOOOOOOT!

I told you. :tongue:

[Blackcoog]

How are you suppose to get a dyno tune without something to tune it with!!

A chip/flash is by far better than trying to run the engine on the stock computer. BTW ADC covers a few reflashes for free from what I hear.

[FastCougar]

A stock SVT ecu with 19# injoctors works great on an SVT cammed 3L setup ... I wouldn't chip it unless it was chipped tuned ON A DYNO. Mail order chip tunes are only going to get you in the ballpark, but I digress. My point is that if you have an SVT ECU + 19# injectors, you are fine. Standard Cougar ECU + 19# injectors + 3L = run like crap. You can however take an SVT ECU with your car to the dealership and get them to swap it in and rekey the car since the PATS system will not allow you to do this at home. The minute you swap in the SVT ECU and try to start the car, PATS will balk and will not allow you to start her. Those are you options.

[Rikenbomb]

I'll second what Trevor is saying. I speak from experience as well.

[jrak123]

How are you suppose to get a dyno tune without something to tune it with!!

A chip is by far better than trying to run the engine on the stock computer. BTW ADC covers a few reflashes for free from what I hear.
You heard wrong, it's $30 every re-flash plus shipping. Also you don't need a chip for dyno tuning, it's called re flashing your ECU. You just have to find a shop that can flash(which most can).

[Blackcoog]

Since when do most shops have the ability to flash over the ECU's with new programs? Wow so SCT didn't come out with anything special. Is everyone else using the manufacturers flashing tools? Flashing or using a Chip makes no difference the SCT software can do both and can only be used on Ford products.

...and I didn't hear wrong I had a chip made for a car I built and they said they would tweak it for free if I had problems with it. Maybe that has changed over the last few months. I can't see them charging you for a problem with the chip though. If it was something you didn't tell them about I could see that. If so $30 is a steal.

I do agree that having a dyno near you that can tune your car is the best possible situation as long as the person tuning knows how to tune it.

[nandalora]

How are you suppose to get a dyno tune without something to tune it with!!

A chip/flash is by far better than trying to run the engine on the stock computer. BTW ADC covers a few reflashes for free from what I hear.
When did I suggest running the car on the stock computer??? :crazy:

I did say the car will run on the stock computer and you could drive there to get tuned. Anyway, I don't know what dyno shops you vistit, but there are tons of reputable ones around everyone you just have to search! The search engine at www.sctflash.com is great! I used it and found several certified SCT dealers/shops within driving distance. At these shops they can tune your car with or with out a chip. They can reflash the stock ECU with the tuning parameters OR burn you a chip with the program (most prefer the later).

Bottom line is for the same price and a LOT less hassle, you can get accurate dyno tuning instead of a closely estimated chip.

[Blackcoog]

True as long as they know what they are doing.

[Nafunu32]

You two have almost matching avatars... how cute. Just kidding. Well, I have my chip on the way so its going to be ok.

[Nafunu32]

Another thing... I just talked to ADC and they DO NOT charge you to reflash the chip during tune ups. Its "a part of our deal to you" and the only thing they will charge is to add another program. Other than that, its free, and only pay the shipping.