Integra RS, vrs Couger Question

[XBananaFishX]

Hi everyone

Ok i used to own a 96 integra RS untill it met an unfortuante end via a speeding taxi, black ice and my slicks :( . Anyways all it had done was intake, rims, tires, lowering kit, short shifter, and non ricer exhaust.
Now i've read the couger v6 5 spd does 7.8 to 100 kmh. Integra does i've seen from 7.2 to 7.8 . The integra was more tossible in turns, and nimble because my couger is stock suspension and heavier. However straight line it feels like it would lose easy to the integra i had. Has anyone here raced a completly stock rs? Is it a drivers race or does the couger not hold up to the rs? I'm wondering because i thought the couger would feel just as fast as the integra. Also would the differance an intake makes on a couger be noticible? in throtle response?

[Clutch]

Intake mods are great for sound and a little performance, not much. I raced and beat integra's when i had the coug. See gmk for a guy who takes his cougar on twisties most drivers wouldnt dare. The coug can hang but how fast do you want to spend?

[XBananaFishX]

haha true. i dont know the integra just felt faster to me. not by much though

[GrandMasterKhan]

the cougars 0-60 is a lil low due to the fact you are required to shift to 3rd gear @ 52mph. (5speed)

I have raced GSR integras quite a few times and never had a problem beating them when my cougar was nearly stock. Then again I have a 5speed. Automatic cougars are a whole different story.

[XBananaFishX]

yea 5 spd here. After posting this thread i finally got a chance to do a racing start, (rev the engine drop the clutch) Feels faster then i thought . 5th keeps going mind you i let off at 150 but i think in 5th the couger would take the integra. 2nd 3rd and 4th i think the integra had better matched gears in regards to the engine used. However i'm definatly sure the the couger would keep up and pass the teg in 5th.

[Aeglos]

i let off at 150
:crazy: I'm calling :bs: . Stock coug can't hit 150, even the sport packages.

[Topik]

Integra will lose. Only integra(in stock form) that would beat you, assuming your a good driver is a type R.

[NorCalCoug]

:crazy: I'm calling :bs: . Stock coug can't hit 150, even the sport packages.


Downhill, or poorly calibrated speedo? :rofl:

[Aeglos]

Exactly. Even wide-open I-8 out here in AZ... straight and sea level, not possible stock.

[B3NN3TT]

Kilometers, People!

[crazyoldcougar]

integra is smaller, lighter and lower then the cougar...of course it is going to "feel" faster.

[1SlowKat]

An atx cougar is faster than an integra except the gsr and itr.

[S3c70r]

My Cougar Stock 5spd is killing an integra RS like nothing ... Integra witha a B18a engine is not even fast engouht to pass in front of a 5spd Cougar...assuming you have a v6 engine. Never raced with a GSR ...but Im pretty sure its not a big deal since honda dont really know what torque means.

[nate230]

if any of you guys think you can beat an integra GSR with a stock V6 5speed cougar your out of your mind. i raced my buddies 99 special edition stock for stock and they were about even, let alone a GSR would hammer on a cougar,vtec is pretty intense in those DOHC B18 motors, and they pull hard.

i always laugh how people on this board bash honda's a honda is much more capable of becoming a fast car than a cougar ever has been.

[XplosivePlushToy]

But how often do they become all that fast, in comparison to the number that are still fart can toting, giant wing equipped GTR's? It takes a lot to make a honda fast.

[kustomcougar]

(5th keeps going mind you i let off at 150):bs:

[nate230]

But how often do they become all that fast, in comparison to the number that are still fart can toting, giant wing equipped GTR's? It takes a lot to make a honda fast.


see that shows how much you really know about honda's. everyone on this board thinks honda= some teenage kid with altezza's, a big wing and a loud ricer exhaust, fact of the matter people can come on here and see crap like that too.

it does not take a lot to make a honda go fast, it takes MUCH MUCH more to make a cougar go remotely close to as fast. the options are endless for affordable swaps into civics and integra's etc. the B series motors like the B16, B18 series (LS, GSR, ITR integra's) and then combinations of b16 heads with B18 blocks (LSVTEC) along with b20 crv long blocks, K20's etc. all of these with the exception of maybe a K20 or ITR B18 are very affordable options, half as much as a 3.0 Duratec swap if not less. my buddy spent 2500 bucks canadian and had a built b18 motor capable of smoking 5.0 Mustangs, spend another 2 grand and build a turbo kit and your making 350, 400 HP. spend 4500 on a cougar engine and what have you got? it won't be any faster than 4500 invested in a civic. (canadian dollars)

[LostRacer]

+1 Nate.

[Josh125XR]

OK this is to me a pretty even match. I raced a guy @ my job with a RS with Intake, Ignition, exhaust & Short throw & new Toyo Tires. I have a Zetec with Intake, ignition, exhaust & new Goodyear assurance tires.
We raced down a back rd late @ night @ a dead stop.
3 horns & we're off, I took him @ the Launch & stayed ahead about 1/2 a car till the end of 3rd gear then he started leaving me I lost 1/4 mile about 1 car :( . Both cars 5spd

[crazyoldcougar]

hehe they dont do karma here (thank god, that got a little carried away on Atomicinternet's site)...but just as well...definately right there...Aftermarket is made for hondas, neons, and well most cars that arent dead like ours. and it is far more affordable to do mods to a honda etc then our car...but cougars are 1 in a 1000 on the street as opposed to a honda that is quite easily 1 in 10...i prefer distinction personally...HP would be nice though....but apparently it is not even a consideration in my four banger with out serious $$$ output.

[diddy]

(5th keeps going mind you i let off at 150):bs:


shut the hell up and try not to look like an idiot. KILOMETERS/HOUR. god all mighty. you would think this is a damn forum for ferraris. good god! The avg 1/4 mile time for a cougar on this site is like 16 seconds but yet you talk trash about all these other cars? get a damn grip. do you ever see the faster cars ripping on hondas all the time? u never see people like GMK, or Nemesis, or some of the other guys with faster cougars talkin trash because they actually know some stuff about cars, and know that hondas are HIGHLY capable of whippin the hell out of every cougar on these boards. some of you guys have even talked trash to me about drivin a Tiburon, which I don't really care, but you still fail to realize the GT is a bit quicker than the cougar, with a pretty large aftermarket as well, with more potential. so get your head out of your a$$ and try learning something about cars...

[1SlowKat]

see that shows how much you really know about honda's. everyone on this board thinks honda= some teenage kid with altezza's, a big wing and a loud ricer exhaust, fact of the matter people can come on here and see crap like that too.

it does not take a lot to make a honda go fast, it takes MUCH MUCH more to make a cougar go remotely close to as fast. the options are endless for affordable swaps into civics and integra's etc. the B series motors like the B16, B18 series (LS, GSR, ITR integra's) and then combinations of b16 heads with B18 blocks (LSVTEC) along with b20 crv long blocks, K20's etc. all of these with the exception of maybe a K20 or ITR B18 are very affordable options, half as much as a 3.0 Duratec swap if not less. my buddy spent 2500 bucks canadian and had a built b18 motor capable of smoking 5.0 Mustangs, spend another 2 grand and build a turbo kit and your making 350, 400 HP. spend 4500 on a cougar engine and what have you got? it won't be any faster than 4500 invested in a civic. (canadian dollars)

No honda swap is less than a 3.0 duratec swap. I'm sorry but it's hard to find a honda engine that sells for $500 with relatively low miles. It does take a lot of money to build a honda. Import parts are soooo expensive. I know this because I helped a friend with a lsvtec swap and it burned quite a big hole in his wallet. But there's so many things you can do to it because 1 in every 10 people has one so there's more demands. You're saying that your friend can smoke a 5.0 mustang is no different than me saying I can smoke an integra. Not all 5.0 mustangs are heavily modded but the faster ones will give your friend a run for his money. When I went to the track, it was pretty much 5.0s and civics. Not a single civic won but there was one that ran 12s. Too bad that the 5.0 he was up against ran 11s. I've beaten an LS with I/H/E but I know that there are tegs that are way faster than my cougar. I have no problem showing respects to the faster hondas out there but from my experience, majority of them just want to look fast. That's the problem with cheap cars. Cheap people buy them and do cheap mods.

[Insurgent]

why supercharge a honda when you can supercharge a real car:eek:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=572A44AA-C8C1-43FB-94E4-A4B098596683&kw=8&p=3

[BigBalledOX]

yea 5 spd here. After posting this thread i finally got a chance to do a racing start, (rev the engine drop the clutch) Feels faster then i thought . 5th keeps going mind you i let off at 150 but i think in 5th the couger would take the integra. 2nd 3rd and 4th i think the integra had better matched gears in regards to the engine used. However i'm definatly sure the the couger would keep up and pass the teg in 5th.

Umm . . . k. Math time. 150 Km/H is roughly 100 MPH. So uh . . . what are you doing in fifth geat at 100 MPH? I was side by side with another car on the interstate the other day and I think I shifted to fifth at about 120ish. Now, I have a fairly modded Cougar, but the gear ratios are still the same. I usually shift in to fourth at ~80 MPH, which would be about 120 Km/H, if I'm "on it". So uh . . . yeah. What gives>

[Clutch]

Can hondas be made fast..yes. Can a honda run 11's...yes. Its just as easy as ordering a pizza....an expensive ass pizza. They dont 1/4 that well and the real fast ones are typically top speed and 60-100 running cars. They still dont have much torque when they are swapped and turboed. They can be quite impressive under some circumstances but the majority of them are still slow. They are great a-b cars but it isn't as easy as you say to make one that can actually compete

[nate230]

No honda swap is less than a 3.0 duratec swap. I'm sorry but it's hard to find a honda engine that sells for $500 with relatively low miles. It does take a lot of money to build a honda. Import parts are soooo expensive. I know this because I helped a friend with a lsvtec swap and it burned quite a big hole in his wallet. But there's so many things you can do to it because 1 in every 10 people has one so there's more demands. You're saying that your friend can smoke a 5.0 mustang is no different than me saying I can smoke an integra. Not all 5.0 mustangs are heavily modded but the faster ones will give your friend a run for his money. When I went to the track, it was pretty much 5.0s and civics. Not a single civic won but there was one that ran 12s. Too bad that the 5.0 he was up against ran 11s. I've beaten an LS with I/H/E but I know that there are tegs that are way faster than my cougar. I have no problem showing respects to the faster hondas out there but from my experience, majority of them just want to look fast. That's the problem with cheap cars. Cheap people buy them and do cheap mods.


so if a duratec swap is cheaper and easier than a honda swap, why don't more people do them? and they are cheap, the motors are cheap and the actual swap is not crazy expensive or difficult either.

and ya a more heavily modded 5.0 could beat my friends civic, but were talking about a 1.8L base integra motor with a mild build. put a bit more in and your good to go.

basically the point i'm getting at is that comparing civics and cougars is silly. cougars are a nice car, i enjoyed owning mine minus the repairs. cougars cost much more to fix, and are much more difficult to work on that a civic. there's a reason why there are so many honda's out there, and so many well modded and quick ones its just a formula honda figured out and ford couldn't.

[nate230]

Can hondas be made fast..yes. Can a honda run 11's...yes. Its just as easy as ordering a pizza....an expensive ass pizza. They dont 1/4 that well and the real fast ones are typically top speed and 60-100 running cars. They still dont have much torque when they are swapped and turboed. They can be quite impressive under some circumstances but the majority of them are still slow. They are great a-b cars but it isn't as easy as you say to make one that can actually compete

yes the majority of them are slow, but the majority of them are being used as their factory purpose- daily drivers. civics are a car with a whole lot of potential to be a lot more of a car than they are when they come out of the factory and hold a lot more bang for your buck as far as performance gains/reliability/gas economy than a cougar. its really not even arguable.

what always gets me is i can have a 12 or 13 second civic and still have amazing gas numbers.


plus you guys knocking honda for lack of torque have never been for a ride in swapped honda's with H22 or K20's, let alone their donor cars.

[Clutch]

Yeah i have, i ride in my friends H22 swapped honda all the time...fast yes...all out fast..no. He spent Alot of money doing it as well

[StealthyWeasel]

Who cares? hondas are ugly and stupid! FLAME WAR! BLAH BLAH BLAH VTAK! This thread is dumb

[GrandMasterKhan]

No need for the flame war. Everyone has some good points.

Yes honda swaps are expensive, and not NEARLy as easy as they will make you think. And no hondas will not have awesome numbers in stock form. It takes alot of money and alot of internal work of FI to pull big numbers.


A 3.0 swap is far less costly. I could build a 250hp 3.0 (built with all the bolt on goodies) or the same price as a b18c (180hp GSR) motor swap for a civic.

You dont see as manye people do 3.0 swaps in cougars, well because there arent as many cougar owners as there are honda owners.

I have had my ass haned to me by motor swapped civics, and I have beaten civics with motor swaps. Its all in the build and how much $$ you put into it.

compare this. How much does it cost to get 200whp from a b18? or a b16? Well you'll need high compression pistons, headwork, hot cams, cam gears, Indiviual throttle bodies, headers, exhaust, dynotuning and likely an aftermarket ecu.$$$ LOTS of time and money.. $$$$

3.0 duratec. Stock internals. stock 3.0 intake, SVT cams & exhaust, SCT chip = 200whp.

which car will be faster? depends doesnt it. Which car will feel faster? who knows. you put 200whp in a 2100lb 92 civic hatch and you will have a rocket in the 13s. Or put it in a oem 2700lbs civic and you'll have a 14 second car. If you put a stock GSR motor in your civic. Guess what, you'll have a 15 second civic.

You put 200whp in a cougar @ stock weight and you'll see low 14s. Give my cougar 200whp and it'll see 13s also.

its all realative guys. But honestly I would much rather have a good bit of torque and be able to enjoy my power/torque often instead of just @ redline as such is with the peaky honda engines.

[XBananaFishX]

OK i got flamed the hell up.. OK first of all 150 km/h. Secondly i did shift to 5th early as i don't want to abuse my car when i'm not racing and i was not on an ideal road to be doing higher speeds safely. thirdly sorry but there are a wider variety of parts for honda's then there are for cougers, more selection, price wise depends on what you get as mentioned above every one has good points except for purely flaming posts. Now I'm neutral to the the whole import domestic beef. I simply know that honda's have **** tourque but open up nicely in the higher rev range. I also want to make clear i did not race either one against eachother i am simply saying what i noticed driving both, and posed the question on which is faster.

Now having learned where the power is in the couger rev range i'd say it would be more a drivers race stock for stock.

[XBananaFishX]

Not to knock the couger as it is a very capable car, the integra was a few tenths quicker 0-100 km/h time. The other reason i noticed the integra to be quicker was probally my momo short throw shifter.

Thanks to everyone who did not flame my post.

[BigBalledOX]

I wasn't trying to flame, I was just really curious why you were in fifth at that speed.

[XBananaFishX]

Not to name names. Whoever posted that a atx couger can beat an integra go learn about the two cars. NO MATCH sorry to say it and burst your buble.

Here read and learn http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/ford/performance1.htm

- Also keep in mind all numbers provided depend upon who is driving weather conditions ect.

[XBananaFishX]

I wasn't trying to flame, I was just really curious why you were in fifth at that speed.

It's kool i don't consider your post a flame post because what you asked was atleast logical and not just a random rant.

[TrackCat]

I have never had a problem beating a rs,gs,or gsr. type-r I haven't seen many that are willing to race and are not modded at all. When engine swaps for hondas in the begining it was cheap an engine for $500 and the shop you pay would take maybe another $500. But not any more now it's $2750 for the engine and then you need a Trans. and Ecu. They figured if you want it then you will pay for it.

As for Hondas and ALL CARS I Love them. I'm a car entheusist and I drive all day all the time. I want to do a 3L drop in my cougar but the current engine is bulletproof. I redline it alot and go to the track. And my other cars need some money to maintain also. Don't bash on any car because a car is as fast as it's owners pockets are deep. Example theres a guy in my area in the northern part of Chicago and he drives a ford Fiesta that loves racing people all the time and wins. As for Honda I have a 2004 CL Type-S 6 speed that has enough Torque.

[nate230]

compare this. How much does it cost to get 200whp from a b18? or a b16? Well you'll need high compression pistons, headwork, hot cams, cam gears, Indiviual throttle bodies, headers, exhaust, dynotuning and likely an aftermarket ecu.$$$ LOTS of time and money.. $$$$

3.0 duratec. Stock internals. stock 3.0 intake, SVT cams & exhaust, SCT chip = 200whp.

.


you definitly make some good points in your post, though you'll be making a fair ammount more than 200 hp in a b18c or a b16 with that much work to it.

i think the biggest thing is the difficulty of the swap and the people available to do it (3.0L) thats where the coin starts to add up. i'm happy to own a honda where i can get parts or people to do a swap easily.

[nate230]

I have never had a problem beating a rs,gs,or gsr. type-r I haven't seen many that are willing to race and are not modded at all. .

maybe you beat an GS or RS or w/e if the other guy was an ATX, but you straight up didn't beat a GSR.

[BigBalledOX]

maybe you beat an GS or RS or w/e if the other guy was an ATX, but you straight up didn't beat a GSR.

How do you know? THere are a myriad of reasons which could have led to him beating a GSR. Making a blanket statement like that is just like a Cougar owner saying "All Hondas are slow and suck". Not a good idea.

[dyed4ordblue]

maybe you beat an GS or RS or w/e if the other guy was an ATX, but you straight up didn't beat a GSR.
HOw do you know? Were you there? Don't be ignorant, please. If you weren't there you don't know. Admittedly, he has not provided any proof, but is there ever any in a street race? If you want to make a point, do it. Don't call people liars if you don't have any proof. :thumbsdn:

[nate230]

hey may as well have said he beat an S2000 or something else totally unreasonable, don't harp on me for pulling the bs flag, you guys do it all the time. the only way that a cougar can beat a GSR is maybeeee if it was an ATX with a person who can't even manage to drive an auto or it wasn't a race at all.

if my cougar was about equal to or slightly slower than an LS a GSR will pull hard away from a cougy.

[dyed4ordblue]

You didn't pull the:bs: , you made a blanket statement without offering anything to back it up. If all you can offer is, "my buddy said..." or some "seat of the pants feel", you are not doing anything to disprove him, you just make yourself look ingnorant.

[BigBalledOX]

hey may as well have said he beat an S2000 or something else totally unreasonable, don't harp on me for pulling the bs flag, you guys do it all the time. the only way that a cougar can beat a GSR is maybeeee if it was an ATX with a person who can't even manage to drive an auto or it wasn't a race at all.

if my cougar was about equal to or slightly slower than an LS a GSR will pull hard away from a cougy.

I guess the s2000 I beat is totally unreasonable too then.

[S3c70r]

I think that the common part of all of us .. which bought a cougar instead of a honda/acura ... is the fact that .. anyway talking about me ... everywhere we are going ... people are trying to know/understand what car are we driving/tunning... People got used to civic/integra/prelude/VW... theres nothing impressive... Tune a cougar... and people are going crazy because they dont know this car for first and there's no cougar tuned at all on the roads ...not as many as honda's/acura's/vw's.

But the thing I like the most is the fact that I have a sporty big heavy boat car... And we still are able to smoke some light rev happy engine's ... Its hard for us to smoke cars... but when we are smoking them ... people are impressed because its heavy and they know that we invest well on the car...

Its easy to make a honda go 14sec at the 1/4... take a hatch put a rsx type-s engine with a 6 speed tranny and you have a 14sec beast ... its very easy ... too easy ....like the dark side ... or for kids which cant afford a nice car which goes fast ... Its only going fast ...its not nice ..but its fast ...thats honda/acura mentality.. Run 14sec with a cougar( the heavy boat ) and you gain respect... even more that the hatch ..

[nate230]

I think that the common part of all of us .. which bought a cougar instead of a honda/acura ... is the fact that .. anyway talking about me ... everywhere we are going ... people are trying to know/understand what car are we driving/tunning... People got used to civic/integra/prelude/VW... theres nothing impressive... Tune a cougar... and people are going crazy because they dont know this car for first and there's no cougar tuned at all on the roads ...not as many as honda's/acura's/vw's.

But the thing I like the most is the fact that I have a sporty big heavy boat car... And we still are able to smoke some light rev happy engine's ... Its hard for us to smoke cars... but when we are smoking them ... people are impressed because its heavy and they know that we invest well on the car...

Its easy to make a honda go 14sec at the 1/4... take a hatch put a rsx type-s engine with a 6 speed tranny and you have a 14sec beast ... its very easy ... too easy ....like the dark side ... or for kids which cant afford a nice car which goes fast ... Its only going fast ...its not nice ..but its fast ...thats honda/acura mentality.. Run 14sec with a cougar( the heavy boat ) and you gain respect... even more that the hatch ..


ya, but i'm really getting the feeling you don't know anything about honda's or acura's. first off, putting a K20 into a civic is difficult and stupid expensive.

actually straight up i'm not gonna keep going, its just like talking in circles, b/c most of you guys haven't a clue what a honda is capable of.

[BigBalledOX]

ya, but i'm really getting the feeling you don't know anything about honda's or acura's. first off, putting a K20 into a civic is difficult and stupid expensive.

actually straight up i'm not gonna keep going, its just like talking in circles, b/c most of you guys haven't a clue what a honda is capable of.

Thats right, we're all just a bunch of dumb, bullheaded morons. :rolleyes:

[nate230]

ya and honda owners are all a bunch of stupid rice driving teenagers who drive slow cars.

there's just a lot of ignorance on this forum towards honda's. atleast i owned a cougar.

[BigBalledOX]

ya and honda owners are all a bunch of stupid rice driving teenagers who drive slow cars.

there's just a lot of ignorance on this forum towards honda's. atleast i owned a cougar.

If all you're gonna do is cry, maybe you should just not frequent this place. Yes, SOME Honda's are fast. SOME Cougars are fast. A blanket statement is a bad idea to make regardless of what you're talking about.

[TrackCat]

First off my manual v6 coug Has beaten gsr's Period. I will not go into a pissing contest with you. Second a k20 swap from a rsx type-s is very expensive look around and search thats 5+ grand for the engine alone not including trans, ecu, transaxles and wiring harness:crazy: .

Like I said before I love all cars I have a Acura CL that likes to smoke alot of cars. I also plan on buying an s2000 later but I need to get my Coug up to standard. :evil:

[BigBalledOX]

Just do a 3L swap on your Cougar, you won't want an S2000 after you start eating them for breakfast, lunch and dinnah. :biggrin:

[XBananaFishX]

This post is getting nasty. It's all a matter of bias. I don't doubt you can beat a gsr. I doubt a couger with the same driver can run faster then a gsr. The whole mod thing yes the price on engine swap on a couger is much better. I don't knock either car they are both respectable. Personaly i liked how MY Integra looked. I also hated the fact that just about everyone owend one. I like the fact that the couger is as fast while being unique ( i've only seen two silver one's on the road since i thought about buying mine. As far as it being a boat car i disagree. My dads 81 buick is a boat. The couger handels good i'd say given its wieght and size.

[TrackCat]

Your right the handling is awsome after you put the Konis and H&Rs and take it on the track like me and you will understand.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Yeah man the k20 rsx engine swap is 6-8 grand. thats a ****load of money for only 14 seconds. That is for a stock engine too! with 200 hp at the flywheel.

Fordrule for example did a full 3.0 swap with a SVT cams, headwork, bullit proof tranny w/LSD, etc etc for $5k. That'll give him easily a low 14 second car. with mucho more tq than the rsx.

My post about the built b16a with 200 Hp to the WHEELS. was refereced by a complete build done by modifed mag. They dynoed each and every bolt on unil the last 200 whp mark was finally achived. And no it wasnt cheap, though probably less costly than doing a K20 swap lol.

believe me, i woudlnt mind at all to build up a 96 Civic hatch with a nice n/a setup. I really like those lil cars, though i probably wont because i realise i can make more power, with less money through my cougar, and ulitmately with the weight reduction i plan on doing will have a pretty fast cougar too.

I totally respect the honda which are built tastefully. I used to roll with a local car club which was entirely composed of GSR Intergas and Motor Swapped civics. My cougar was actually one of the fastest of the group.

And yes my cougar beats S2000s as well, bearly lol.

I would say that stock to stock a GSR would have an advantage. As expected since the GSR is lighter, as for a GS or RS Integra? Not vs a stock MTX cougar. ATX v6? hmm i couldnt tell you. But no matter what we're still comparing high 15-17 second cars here.

[Hytu]

My Cougar Stock 5spd is killing an integra RS like nothing ... Integra witha a B18a engine is not even fast engouht to pass in front of a 5spd Cougar...assuming you have a v6 engine. Never raced with a GSR ...but Im pretty sure its not a big deal since honda dont really know what torque means.


http://www.srt-4mation.com/images/smilies/bsflag.gif A GSR is quicker than a Coug. Torque doesnt always win races.

[Hytu]

see that shows how much you really know about honda's. everyone on this board thinks honda= some teenage kid with altezza's, a big wing and a loud ricer exhaust, fact of the matter people can come on here and see crap like that too.

it does not take a lot to make a honda go fast, it takes MUCH MUCH more to make a cougar go remotely close to as fast. the options are endless for affordable swaps into civics and integra's etc. the B series motors like the B16, B18 series (LS, GSR, ITR integra's) and then combinations of b16 heads with B18 blocks (LSVTEC) along with b20 crv long blocks, K20's etc. all of these with the exception of maybe a K20 or ITR B18 are very affordable options, half as much as a 3.0 Duratec swap if not less. my buddy spent 2500 bucks canadian and had a built b18 motor capable of smoking 5.0 Mustangs, spend another 2 grand and build a turbo kit and your making 350, 400 HP. spend 4500 on a cougar engine and what have you got? it won't be any faster than 4500 invested in a civic. (canadian dollars)

Words of wisdom right there, :thumbsup:


BTW, a K24 EG hatch is a mid to high 13 second car.

[Clutch]

Yes torque can and does win races. That is like saying hp doesn't matter. They both matter. If you have a lack of one your car wont perform.

[diddy]

1996 Acura Integra GS-R 7.1 15.5
2001 Mercury Cougar V-6 7.8 16.


half of a second difference....advantage GSR

and in our 1/4 mile thread we have cougars with intake and exhuast running just faster than that, but still slower than a 15.5. oh well. I say we just kill this thread because there are only a few people making well written and educated responses.

[Danef150]

A friend of mine used to own a little 93 integra gs with cams p&p work headers, full exhaust, and a chip and that little car pulled like a demon. The car felt normal till about 4500 then it would pin you to your seat and leave ya there for a while. Way quicker than my v-6 5speed has ever been. Gotta give credit where credit is do...btw he wasnt a ricer his car was lowered had tinted windows,a OEM cf hood, and ran on stock rims with performance tires

[nate230]

First off my manual v6 coug Has beaten gsr's Period. I will not go into a pissing contest with you. Second a k20 swap from a rsx type-s is very expensive look around and search thats 5+ grand for the engine alone not including trans, ecu, transaxles and wiring harness:crazy: .

Like I said before I love all cars I have a Acura CL that likes to smoke alot of cars. I also plan on buying an s2000 later but I need to get my Coug up to standard. :evil:


WTF man your a tool, i never said the K20's were cheap, but the b16,b18, LSVTEC, B20's etc are definitly reasonable.

[nate230]

Just do a 3L swap on your Cougar, you won't want an S2000 after you start eating them for breakfast, lunch and dinnah. :biggrin:

ya who'd want an S2000 when they could have a big pile of depreciation that spends most of its time in the shop getting fixed. i know i would.

[BigBalledOX]

ya who'd want an S2000 when they could have a big pile of depreciation that spends most of its time in the shop getting fixed. i know i would.

You're hilarious. There are currently 20k miles on my hybrid. Pre-tuning, I could take down s2000's. Now, with tuning, I can't wait to see what I can eat up. If you wanna toss in the new O2's and EGR and tuning, this car is still south of 10k. I will grant I lucked out to a certain degree in purchasing the car pre-built, but regardless, one could build a Cougar that can take down the almighty s2000 for less than half the cost of one. How many days has my car spent in the shop for anything beyond routine maintenance? Oh yeah . . . ZERO.

If you love your Hondas so much, why don't you go hang with them since we're obviously not "cool" enough to hang with?

[nate230]

you don't pay tons of money for an S2000 b/c it's stupid fast you pay lots of money because its an -S2000-. i'm sure the guy who buys an S2000 is just thinkin well, i could just buy a cougar.

besides, turbo the S2000 and say good bye to any cougar.

[nate230]

If you love your Hondas so much, why don't you go hang with them since we're obviously not "cool" enough to hang with?

its not like i hate cougars, i never would have bought one if i didn't like it, but when people are constantly bashing honda's someones gotta step up and teach most of you guys some edumacation.

[XplosivePlushToy]

you don't pay tons of money for an S2000 b/c it's stupid fast you pay lots of money because its an -S2000-. i'm sure the guy who buys an S2000 is just thinkin well, i could just buy a cougar.

besides, turbo the S2000 and say good bye to any cougar.

That goes for any car though. Put enough boost into a car and its going to be silly fast. Hell I could build up and turbo the motor of a geo metro and have a monster on my hands. Turbo a 3L Cougar and you are still below the cost for the stock S2000 with a car that would take on even a turbo'd one.

It would be an interesting race though.

[StealthyWeasel]

cougars still better.. whats this debate about again?

[Aeglos]

Civics can be fast...
Google Video: Civic vs Skyline (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-807060716240433153&q=skyline)
Sure, it's fast. Still, put that same $$ into that Skyline and you'll have a different kind of monster. Buy a cheap one and spend the $$ to make it MATCH a more prestigious car, or spend the same $$ all at once to buy the one they're trying to match. It's what you can afford and preferences/desire to make it YOURS.

Hell, my wife beat an '06 Mustang GT last night in my stock C2. He ground both 1st and 3rd, that's why. You can have a BEAST, but if you're a crappy driver... :rolleyes:

S2000 - :rolleyes: . Only Hondas I'd consider are Preludes (iffy), and NSXs, and I'd rather have the Acura version.

[XplosivePlushToy]

Hell, my wife beat an '06 Mustang GT last night in my stock C2.

STILL stock? Jeezus man. Thought you would at least have the GMK on there haha.

[BigBalledOX]

its not like i hate cougars, i never would have bought one if i didn't like it, but when people are constantly bashing honda's someones gotta step up and teach most of you guys some edumacation.

I can understand that. I'd also like to note I've never once unjustly bashed a Honda.

[Aeglos]

Tell that to my lack of sleep and being accident-prone as a consequence. Got it tore apart to the point that I was looking under the OEM splash guard to see where the CAI mounts, and filleted my finger on the broken fog lamp. Ended up bleeding all over the engine bay. Now I need payday to hurry the hell up and get here so I can try this again!

[XplosivePlushToy]

Hahaha you panzy! I installed my short ram a year ago in a parking lot in less than an hour. I just recently installed my ram air in about 25 minutes. Its a good thing you dont work on any mechanical stuff Josh :rofl:. You would have a field day installing the SVT components.

[Aeglos]

SRI doesn't involve cutting a hole in the wheel well or removing the battery. I'm actually looking forward to getting/installing the SVT stuff.

*looks around*
THREAD HIJACKERS STRIKE AGAIN!!!

[XplosivePlushToy]

Hahah I was thinking the same thing. At least we are doing our part to eliminate all that hostility. Haha.

EDIT: and to get the ram air to fit without causing any restrictions I had to cut up my fender.

[Diabetic Dog]

I beat an S2000 on the interstate once in my stock '00 MTX. We were rolling @ 60mph I dropped into 3rd & I was GONE! I hate to mention that he pussed out and I don't think he really wanted to race, I think he was just messin w/ me. I still won, and a win is a win! LOL!

[Josh125XR]

Damn I missed alot, My short 2 cents. :blah: Yes both cars have there ups & downs whats car doesn't right? But It matter whats under the hood & how the Driver is also, Hell proven point. When I was stock I raced a guy with a 1st gen. Eagle Talon TSI 5spd, We race dead stop 1/4 mile & I lose by half a car, now isn't there something wrong here? A I4 cougar stock with a Talon TSI? WTF! So it depnds in all conditions here. There's my 2 cents. ;)

[StealthyWeasel]

probably a fake tsi in piss poor condition, those non turbos have like 92 hp

[Josh125XR]

No it was a TSI because he passed me earlier & I clearly hear a BOV :biggrin: & then he punched it at the Stop Sign & no FWD burn out so it was a true TSI

[XBananaFishX]

Only thing i don't understand when some of you here say a couger (stock) vrs. a (stock) integra the couger wins because of tourque. I agree tourque does matter. However when tested by car magizines or wtvr 0-60 (miles) times are virtually identical ( i see more #'s in favoure of the integra by milaseconds) 1/4 mile times are virtually identical again.
One question can't lack in torque be over come by dropping the clutch granted your tires grip. As i recall the integra had closely matched gears to overcome its lack of torque.
I think we should kill this thread.
As really both cars have they're pro's and con's i havent had my couger long enough to know its cons (except for that alt misshap.)
Oh and now i'm falling in love with my car. My idea of selling it in four months is fading lol

[TrackCat]

First Nate230 I haven't insulted you so don't insult me. You said a type-r and those are the same price range as the K20 swap.
Aeglos I really doubt that guy in the Skyline was even trying at all. Thats my opinion on that video.

everyone knows you don't buy an S2000 just because it's fast you buy it because it's stupid fast. My brother lets me drive his S2000 and I don't even look at anyones car as a potential race. Because I know it's a waste of time. The S2000 handles like it's on rails. When I took it to the tracks in Road America I was amazed how fast I was going around every other car there(BTW not race cars).

13seconds..... 14seconds...Torque... Horsepower.... Weight?? All I know things look good on paper but when it comes down to it it's the driver that makes a difference in the outcome when two cars are nearly the same. I'll stick to my CL type-S making 260 Horsepower and 232 Lbs of Torque Might weight alot but 0-60 in 5.4 is always going to be fun.

[TrackCat]

My friend owns an eclipse 1st gen GSX. When he first purchased the car it was in poor condition remember those cars are old and have been beating to ****. He got a nice BOV but still wasn't fast untill he rebuilt the engine.

[diddy]

First Nate230
Aeglos I really doubt that guy in the Skyline was even trying at all. Thats my opinion on that video.
.

i doubt it, just because it's a skyline doesn't mean it can't be beat. I've seen vids of civics smokin mustang gt's and corvettes and such. it's definately possible.

[Clutch]

Stock Skylines arent too impressive. But can be made unbeatable. Now back to question asked originally...not motor swap...no under perfect conditions...I havce beaten stock RS integras with a stock cougar. End of story.

[diddy]

Stock Skylines arent too impressive. But can be made unbeatable.

no car is unbeatable. plain and simple

[XplosivePlushToy]

The Thrust SSC is unbeatable :tongue:

[InnovaZero]

Stock Skylines arent too impressive.

I can't believe my ears, aren't impressive? 13's quarter mile with incredible handling to outdo many....stock.

Yes they can be made to be 10x better, but they are awesome machines from the factory alone.

[GrandMasterKhan]

how about all those vids of skylines and mustangs beating civics? Oh wait. There arent any.

[ilovemycar]

how about all those vids of skylines and mustangs beating civics? Oh wait. There arent any.

Your right there aren't any...why? Prolly because there aren't many Skylines in America! lol There are plenty of Mustang's and Civics but you would have a hrad time just "seeing a skyline riding around". :rofl:

[XplosivePlushToy]

....

I think he was being sarcastic....

[Clutch]

Stock 13s aren't Fantastic as everyone thinks....skylines aren't awesome stock. Camaro SS's aren't Fantastic stock. Still very good cars but not as big of a deal as people make them out to be. Great cars modded but stock. Just good.

[BigBalledOX]

So then what *IS* a fantastic car stock?

[XplosivePlushToy]

Well DUH! A Cougar! :rofl: Or a C6 ZO6...

[LostRacer]

So then what *IS* a fantastic car stock?
compared to what?? Thats an opinionated statement. You could think somethng is fantastic where the next person thinks its just crap..Thats usually how it is anyway. This whole thread has been trying to justify comparing apples to oranges and does nothing more than show the shallowness of some. Its just a bit stupid IMO.

[XplosivePlushToy]

My orange will smoke your apple! Its just too bad neither of them can compare to my :banana:

[Josh125XR]

My orange will smoke your apple! Its just too bad neither of them can compare to my :banana:

^^^:rofl:

[StealthyWeasel]

My orange will smoke your apple! Its just too bad neither of them can compare to my :banana:


haha

[Hytu]

So then what *IS* a fantastic car stock?

Compared to a Cougar? The S2000. It all depends on what you want in a car.

[BigBalledOX]

compared to what?? Thats an opinionated statement. You could think somethng is fantastic where the next person thinks its just crap..Thats usually how it is anyway. This whole thread has been trying to justify comparing apples to oranges and does nothing more than show the shallowness of some. Its just a bit stupid IMO.

I was asking his opinion Ty. I wanted to know what HE thought was a fantastic car stock. Ugh, I'm too sick and tired right now to expand on this, but this thread has gotten beyond off topic and beyond retarded. I'm out.

[TrackCat]

If I owned a Skyline I would not race anyone unless it's in a legal competition with money. The insurance alone is BIG and maintenance is like having 2 BMW M3's. The Skyline has been banned from many Championship races because it's too fast. And always remember more money more horseys.

[Hytu]

*Cougar*

[Aeglos]

Aeglos I really doubt that guy in the Skyline was even trying at all. Thats my opinion on that video.
Pfff, he may have been trying, or maybe not. Still, my bet is that Skyline was STOCK, and that Civic was nowhere NEAR stock. I was wincing just listening to that thing, waiting for the BOOM!

"Impressive" or not, a stock Skyline/C06/Mustang GT/Evo/STi will smoke a Cougar every time (within reason, no blown engines/mechanical breaks).

[LostRacer]

I was asking his opinion Ty. I wanted to know what HE thought was a fantastic car stock. Ugh, I'm too sick and tired right now to expand on this, but this thread has gotten beyond off topic and beyond retarded. I'm out.

eh bbox..That wasn't a direct post to you man..I apologize..But the "Fantastic" topic is what set me off. Nobody ever realizes that certain terms are relative or just opinionated. Great example, "fast". Are you comparing something or just saying it? If you're comparing something then thats a truth. If you're just saying it, well thats opinionated.