Civic Si

[RobbieD]

I drove on of these today before school! It was really fun, better than I ever thought. It has the easiest clutch ever to learn. When I hit 2nd I was already a pro at it. The engine sounds great as well. Suspension was really stiff when rocking the car sitting still but moving was a little different.

My drive start to finish...
The salesman took it off the lot and we were up to 105 on a nice road with some twists. A few miles down the road he let me have at it. Like I said power was good and the trans was great! There was a feeling of low torque but the hp in the higher rpms was a delight. At 6500 the vtec kicked in. That was not a thrill at all. The salesman explained it like a turbo kicking in, yeah, with its 1lbs of boost. There was a nice lot by the lake with lots of light poles and I "auto crossed" them. For such stiff suspension roll was very noticeable. On a sharp turn I slowed down but once in the turn opened it up and the car flew around it with a very solid feel. Braking is god like! With EBD and some nice big rotors the car stops so fast your face rips off and hits the wheel. All in all the car is very quick, handles great with some roll, stops like nothing, looks good, and is priced right.

If anyone else has drove or ones one did my review sound about right?

[BigBalledOX]

Sounds ok I s'pose.

I'm just waiting for some punk in his shiny new Si to pull up next to me at a stoplight. :evil:

[PREDATOR]

I guess those things came out when I was oversea's. I went to the movie theater and there was an SI parked in the lot and when I came out there was an exact same car parked next to it.

I guess another Honda Revolution :shrug:

I did like the aggresive styling of the front end though ;)

[Hardrive]

Don't look too bad to me. I like the instrument cluster, kinda space age to me.

[RobbieD]

I think a cougar with mods should be able to at least hold its own or maybe even win against a Si.... it was fun but I could not drive it daily.

**edit: after readind my first post I think I sound too much like a Honda guy. It was fun but I didnt want to make it sound that good.

[ilovemycar]

Sounds ok I s'pose.

I'm just waiting for some punk in his shiny new Si to pull up next to me at a stoplight. :evil:

Don't be surprised when he has an intake and exhaust and beats you! 197hp to the wheels STOCK:eek:(in a 2L at that!) helps alot in a car that is lighter than a cougar.

[BigBalledOX]

Don't be surprised when he has an intake and exhaust and beats you! 197hp to the wheels STOCK:eek:(in a 2L at that!) helps alot in a car that is lighter than a cougar.

Uh . . . thats flywheel horsepower.

[Aeglos]

At 6500 the vtec kicked in. That was not a thrill at all. The salesman explained it like a turbo kicking in, yeah, with its 1lbs of boost.
vtec... all it's doing is holding back on airflow to the engine until it's floored. Dumb idea IMHO.

[BigBalledOX]

:rofl: My favorite stat off www.honda.com

Max torque = 139 ft-lbs@6100 RPM

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I'm making 155 ft-lbs at 2k :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MagicHallucinations]

Don't be surprised when he has an intake and exhaust and beats you! 197hp to the wheels STOCK:eek:(in a 2L at that!) helps alot in a car that is lighter than a cougar.



:rofl: :rofl: yeah right......197 to the wheels......noob:rofl:





M

[BigBalledOX]

Here, let me put it to you this way. I took down an S2000 with the 3L BEFORE getting it tuned. I promise you the S2000 is faster than the OMFG STFU pwnz!!11 Civic Si.

Its already been pointed out many a time my 200/178 is noticeably lower than what most people are putting out due to the type of dyno my car was tuned on. Thats why at Fest I'd LOVE to see a dyno there, so all the controllables are the same (dyno, conditions, etc) and see where everyone really stands.

[ilovemycar]

Uh . . . thats flywheel horsepower.

ok so the video i saw with my own eyes was lying. And every single thing i have read is lying and they don't put down that much power :rolleyes:

EITHER WAY IT IS STILL DAMN GOOD FOR A 2L ALL MOTOR...can anyone show me any other company that makes more power per liter in a PISTON enigine than that all motor? NO cause that company does not exist lol.

Don't get me wrong i like my cougar, and yes i am faster than plenty of Honda's but at least i am not in denial about the fact that some of them ARE in fact fast :eek: .

[BigBalledOX]

ok so the video i saw with my own eyes was lying. And every single thing i have read is lying and they don't put down that much power :rolleyes:

EITHER WAY IT IS STILL DAMN GOOD FOR A 2L ALL MOTOR...can anyone show me any other company that makes more power per liter in a PISTON enigine than that all motor? NO cause that company does not exist lol.

Don't get me wrong i like my cougar, and yes i am faster than plenty of Honda's but at least i am not in denial about the fact that some of them ARE in fact fast :eek: .

Hey smart guy, find where I said all Hondas Civic Si's are slow.

Also, it is a known fact that all manufacturers use flywheel horsepower as advertised. Honda itself even admits the Si's horsepower is slightly lower due to more stringent standards enacted by SAE. 197 FWHP would translate to, ballpark, 215 flywheel horsepower. Bring me video of a new Si dynoing 197 FWHP and call my :bs:. Otherwise you can :rolleyes: yourself.

PS Boy Racer and his four-wheel lawn mower isn't really my target anyways. :cool:

[Logan Motorsports]

We had a Honda S2000 on the dyno and it made just over 200 at the wheels (201.3 I think), and those are rated at 240 SAE. We've had a couple of stock SHO's on the dyno, and they made between 180 and 185 at the wheels, those are rated 220 SAE. It's really hard to say how much would be lost through the drivetrain, but in Honda's case I believe they overrate their engines slightly. For example we had an Acura RSX on the dyno and it only made 168 wheel horsepower. I believe those are rated at like 205 SAE, so BBOX's Cougar is probably making something like 235 SAE if I had to guess.

[StealthyWeasel]

those are great numbers for big's cougar! Do you still have stupid wheelhop:rolleyes: (from a launch) with your setup or is it just straight spin?

[BigBalledOX]

those are great numbers for big's cougar! Do you still have stupid wheelhop:rolleyes: (from a launch) with your setup or is it just straight spin?

Pretty much just spin, though I'll grant I haven't really launched it hard since I got tuned.

[Logan Motorsports]

So I was thinking about it, and came up with this really cool analogy.

BBOX's cougar puts out 200 wheel horsepower from 3 liters....so that's 66.66 horsepower per liter. I saw an article in which the new Corvette Z06 made 456 wheel horsepower from 7 liters....so that's 65.14 horsepower per liter. So his car actually makes more power per liter at the wheels than a Z06 Corvette. Granted, he has 4V cylinder heads with DOHC, but the Z06 has dry sump oiling, CNC cylinder heads, titanium rods....the list goes on. It's very interesting to me.

[ilovemycar]

So I was thinking about it, and came up with this really cool analogy.

BBOX's cougar puts out 200 wheel horsepower from 3 liters....so that's 66.66 horsepower per liter. I saw an article in which the new Corvette Z06 made 456 wheel horsepower from 7 liters....so that's 65.14 horsepower per liter. So his car actually makes more power per liter at the wheels than a Z06 Corvette. Granted, he has 4V cylinder heads with DOHC, but the Z06 has dry sump oiling, CNC cylinder heads, titanium rods....the list goes on. It's very interesting to me.

What? No mention of the 91.XXX WHP per liter an Integra Type R can put down?

[StealthyWeasel]

I think you're earning the title of 3L nay-sayer in training:rofl:

[Aeglos]

What? No mention of the 91.XXX WHP per liter an Integra Type R can put down?
Integra... :puke: :banhim:

[ilovemycar]

I think you're earning the title of 3L nay-sayer in training:rofl:

No!!!!

I myself will have a 3L oneday...when my 2.5 has had enough nitrous!(been thru 14 bottles of the 75 shot, and it still kickin' with 115K+ miles:rofl: )

I am not trying to put down anyones numbers or anything of the sort. I am just trying to let everyone know that Honda's are not the ****tiest car on earth. They can in fact put down more power than a Duratec...for less money! :eek: ;)

[BigBalledOX]

What? No mention of the 91.XXX WHP per liter an Integra Type R can put down?

How does the saying go . . . if you love your Honda so much, why don't you go get one?

[ilovemycar]

How does the saying go . . . if you love your Honda so much, why don't you go get one?

I will...oneday. LOL

I have my car right now. It is paid for. I wanna experiment with this. My friend has the Honda. When we feel like messin' with a Ford we mess with my car...when we feel like messin' with a Honda we mess with his car. :)

[LostRacer]

They can in fact put down more power than a Duratec...for less money! :eek: ;)


Thats more than obvious

[BigBalledOX]

I am just trying to let everyone know that Honda's are not the ****tiest car on earth. They can in fact put down more power than a Duratec...for less money! :eek: ;)

Who said that? I never once saw Honda bashed in this thread. The closest thing that came to that was me saying I could take a Civic Si. And I will still believe that, until I'm proven otherwise. Even if the car IS putting down 197 horsepower at the wheels, I still have a much better transmission with lightweight flywheel and, more important, a limited slip differential. I also make more torque than a Civic Si could dream of.

Also, you mention the HP per liter of a Honda, what about torque? I would trade torque for horsepower any day of the week.

[Aeglos]

They can in fact put down more power than a Duratec...for less money!
On a body design that wasn't made as strong, nor made for it. I'm not saying the Cougar was made for 500hp either, but Hondas, especially Civics, are easy-on-the-wallet for a reason. As a grocery-getter, they're fine, but they take more money than most cars to make them GREAT.

How does the saying go . . . if you love your Honda so much, why don't you go get one?
Now, now BBox... :rolleyes: Everyone has their semi-retarded moments!

[InnovaZero]

No!!!!

I myself will have a 3L oneday...when my 2.5 has had enough nitrous!(been thru 14 bottles of the 75 shot, and it still kickin' with 115K+ miles:rofl: )

I am not trying to put down anyones numbers or anything of the sort. I am just trying to let everyone know that Honda's are not the ****tiest car on earth. They can in fact put down more power than a Duratec...for less money! :eek: ;)

True, but I don't agree on the cheaper part. I'd say equally..you could find a 2.5L SVT motor for the same price as a GS-R B18 motor, and the SVT has 25 more horsepower/40tq with similar top end, and a broader torque curve. Honda engines take quite a built of build to take decent boost from turbo's, and from Im told it is not cheap at all(not to mention getting the high compression down from vtec to do it).

That being said, yes honda does a great job getting crap loads of high rpm power from their small engines. Although not my cup of tea...they are fun on the freeways. Teenage jackoff's have just ruined the brand in my eyes though.

[Aeglos]

Teenage jackoff's have just ruined the brand in my eyes though.
YES!!! What he said!

[ilovemycar]

BBOX i was really talking about this thread bashing Honda's i was mostly talking about the "general population" on this board...which is understandable considering it IS a cougar forum :rofl:

[RobbieD]

You can say what you will about the Si or Honda. Some of my friends drive CRX's and they are a lot of fun! Honda may or may not be the best car but they are damn fun to drive...

Who wins STS most often at the SCCA Solo II Nationals?

[GrandMasterKhan]

Just because 2 cars show a peak of 200whp doesnt mean they are equally as fast. Torque is what moves you. If the honda only makes 140 Tq at a very high rpm...yet a duratec makes 160tq at a lower rpm... Take your pick.

The duratec will be much more fun to drive and will overall have Much more power. How you say if they have the same power on paper? Well they dont! The v6 will have Significantly more HP under the curve. THAT is what makes a car exciting to drive.

[ilovemycar]

That all depends on how you like to drive! Me...i don't like twists an turns too much...i like "stretching it out"...that is what Honda is all about ;)

[Aeglos]

:rolleyes: I'd take a Mustang for that, personally.

[ilovemycar]

:rolleyes: I'd take a Mustang for that, personally.

:rolleyes: take a mustang if you wanna. But i was personally in the civic that my friend has the other day, and with only 9-10psi he was walking away from a C6 'Vette from 70 all the way to 155 so he let off. The 'vette come up again and jumped on it...so the civic walked away from him AGAIN all the way to 155. :rofl: We are still trying to figure out this whole making videos thing lol. He got a new camera for X-mas so we'll polly make a video sometime in the near future ;)

I'd take THAT ^ personally!

BTW as i said that was with 9-10 psi...when the civic goes to the dyno to get a FULL tune(if his lazy azz will ever take it:rofl: ) it will easily hold whatever the turbo will give it...which should be over 25psi :eek: ....I'D TAKE THAT!

[Aeglos]

If you use all the money you'd need to put into that Civic's engine rebuild so that it could handle 25 psi WITHOUT EXPLODING and put that into the C6... I shouldn't have to finish that thought. Taking a stock Civic and running 25 psi would result in the same thing a GS-T trying to run 35 psi on stock internals in the vids forum experienced, parts all over the floor.

Or put that money into an old 'Vette Stingray. 'Nuff said.

[Logan Motorsports]

I think car crafting is about having fun. If you want to go fast in a Civic, go for it. If you want to beat a vette in a cougar, more power to you. In posting that thread about hp/liter I was merely pointing out that the duratec isn't as mundane as it seems, and even compared to a car that some have called the greatest performance bargain ever, it can hold it's own in some categories. That is what my point is, I believe taking an engine originally designed to serve duty in mundane vehicles and making it something worth talking about is the soul of hot rodding. If it were my choice I'd be hot rodding everything, including my lawn mower :rofl:

[Aeglos]

True. Very true. We've got a true enthusiast here!

[1COUGAR99]

I think car crafting is about having fun. If you want to go fast in a Civic, go for it. If you want to beat a vette in a cougar, more power to you. In posting that thread about hp/liter I was merely pointing out that the duratec isn't as mundane as it seems, and even compared to a car that some have called the greatest performance bargain ever, it can hold it's own in some categories. That is what my point is, I believe taking an engine originally designed to serve duty in mundane vehicles and making it something worth talking about is the soul of hot rodding. If it were my choice I'd be hot rodding everything, including my lawn mower :rofl:

HERE HERE!!!! :evil:

Who said that? I never once saw Honda bashed in this thread. The closest thing that came to that was me saying I could take a Civic Si. And I will still believe that, until I'm proven otherwise. Even if the car IS putting down 197 horsepower at the wheels, I still have a much better transmission with lightweight flywheel and, more important, a limited slip differential. I also make more torque than a Civic Si could dream of.


Last time I checked the SI comes from the factory with an LSD.

Just stirring the pot a little :eek:

[BigBalledOX]

That is something I admittedly did not know.

And yes, DeWayne rules. :cool:

[gyger]

I think car crafting is about having fun. If you want to go fast in a Civic, go for it. If you want to beat a vette in a cougar, more power to you. In posting that thread about hp/liter I was merely pointing out that the duratec isn't as mundane as it seems, and even compared to a car that some have called the greatest performance bargain ever, it can hold it's own in some categories. That is what my point is, I believe taking an engine originally designed to serve duty in mundane vehicles and making it something worth talking about is the soul of hot rodding. If it were my choice I'd be hot rodding everything, including my lawn mower :rofl:
Thanks for bringing this guy to the forums BBOX!
well said DeWayne
It's about building something you like, something unique.

[Logan Motorsports]

Thanks! Lol, I have this sick dream of building a '91 notchback mustang with a twin turbo SHO motor and a full Griggs GR-40 road race suspension. Why....I dunno

[BigBalledOX]

Thanks! Lol, I have this sick dream of building a '91 notchback mustang with a twin turbo SHO motor and a full Griggs GR-40 road race suspension. Why....I dunno

Why? Because it can be done, dammit! What more reason do you need? :cool:

[Aeglos]

*drool*... Damn. That'd be sick. [/wetdream]

[Logan Motorsports]

Yea, and we all know the ladies dig the V6 wail waaaaaay better than the ancient 5.0L engine anyway :rofl:

[Aeglos]

:rofl: Try telling that to my wife and her '86 Mustang 5.0. You mention a twin-turbo setup on that, she'd be more interested than I've got money for!

[Tygerr]

vtec... all it's doing is holding back on airflow to the engine until it's floored. Dumb idea IMHO.

You fail at life. It's not a dumb idea. It saves gas when you want to and gets up and goes when you want to. Almost an ingenious design at that, I think you just made an ignorant statement based on the stereotype that only "ricers" think vtec is #1 yo! Therefore, you did not want to be part of that stereotype. Just wait till infinite variability valve timing comes out, if it ever does. ;)

I guess holding back airflow is a way to look at it, but not necessarily. Basically it has multiple camshafts, one for low end and one for high end. Saving gas by not opening the valves as much at low rpm (smoother operation), opening up the valves for longer durations at higher rpms (more power). How again is that dumb!!!! More air, more power. The End.

[gyger]

my mustang dream(I'm on a five year plan)
1968 mustang full primer
no show only go
5L? hahaha no try 7.5+Liters
my 460 big block
bored .30 over to 466ci
stock d3ve heads PnP'd
flat top pistons making it a 9.16:1CR
whatever crank work may be needed
Holley 750 Dbl pmpr with weiand stealth intake man.
headers

Desktop dyno rates this around 441+hp and 515tq:biggrin:
I have the engine just need to get it cleaned and tested so
I can start on it.
Sorry you guys started talking about dream Mustangs and I
got carried away:crazy:

[Logan Motorsports]

Well, if you wanna go that far....

My SUPREME mustang would be a '67 fastback....jet black. It would have a '97 4V cobra engine with twin turbos on alchohol, and I'd drive it on the street!

[Aeglos]

Just wait till infinite variability valve timing comes out, if it ever does. ;)
I stand corrected. Good point.
Edit: I understand the concept of variable valve timing. It's not hard. The DOHC concept isn't new or anything. For some reason I was thinking earlier that it acted more like opening secondaries/a butterfly valve while using the second cam. In that case, yes holding back airflow would be detrimental to performance. It's been a busy night, so my thinking has been elsewhere. It's just a case of the momentary lapse of sanity. :cover:

[ilovemycar]

If you use all the money you'd need to put into that Civic's engine rebuild so that it could handle 25 psi WITHOUT EXPLODING and put that into the C6... I shouldn't have to finish that thought. Taking a stock Civic and running 25 psi would result in the same thing a GS-T trying to run 35 psi on stock internals in the vids forum experienced, parts all over the floor.

Or put that money into an old 'Vette Stingray. 'Nuff said.

The motor has a TOTAL of 3k in it...and it can handle well over 1000hp. I never said it was a stock motor :rolleyes:

[gyger]

My SUPREME mustang would be a '67 fastback....jet black. It would have a '97 4V cobra engine with twin turbos on alchohol, and I'd drive it on the street!
nah, I have to stay realistic since I could never afford all that.:(
That would be nice though.

[Tygerr]

No problem man. It's always good to learn and correct/admit your mistakes then play ignorant. ;) I wasn't trying to be too harsh.

Mustang? I'm wanting to buy like an '03ish Mach1, Cobra, or even a GT and turbo'ing that biotch. Dream car would have to be a Porsche Carrera, but that may never happen. I can dream though!!!