3L Debate thread!

[Mike]

Hmm... With a very good driver, I would suggest a high 13, low 14. My build is different from this one (hybrid), so my performance is not directly comparable. I have beaten S2000's, a G35, etc etc... Again, this setup is different, and in the brief time it ran, it was being babied for the break-in period, so I can't really compare. It's a pretty standard build... guys in the 3L forum would probably know.

Massiv.
I think a more realistic number would be a high 14, low 15. Just my $0.02.

Mike

[ilovemycar]

I think a more realistic number would be a high 14, low 15. Just my $0.02.

Mike

Yah sure...those are more realistic...for some of the more "horrible" drivers on here. With the right tires, and the right driver there is absolutely no reason for this car not to be in the high 13's! :cool:

[MaverickFlyer]

Yah sure...those are more realistic...for some of the more "horrible" drivers on here. With the right tires, and the right driver there is absolutely no reason for this car not to be in the high 13's! :cool:

Suspension plays a big part in it as well! ;)

If my motor was shot, I would buy this in a second!

[Mike]

Yah sure...those are more realistic...for some of the more "horrible" drivers on here. With the right tires, and the right driver there is absolutely no reason for this car not to be in the high 13's! :cool:

I knew I would get flamed. I expected it. Its my opinion and i'm entitled to it.

:)

Mike

[topjoe]

I assume this is iNFAMOUS 's motor ?

[ilovemycar]

Suspension plays a big part in it as well! ;)

If my motor was shot, I would buy this in a second!


Suspension is a given. If you are gonna spend 5k plus on your drivetrain and plan on drag racing it...and you do not upgrade your suspension...you have wasted your money.

[timeless420]

I think a more realistic number would be a high 14, low 15. Just my $0.02.

Mike

Mike, a similar build to this (sub 3L oval port UIM/LIM for SVT UIM/LIM) ran in the 14.2-14.5 range late last year and I have seen this motor with my own eyes both before and after build/prep. Ofcourse this is with proper tuning and a MTX.

Then again even the best car can put down crappy numbers with a bad driver.

[Mike]

Mike, a similar build to this (sub 3L oval port UIM/LIM for SVT UIM/LIM) ran in the 14.2-14.5 range late last year and I have seen this motor with my own eyes both before and after build/prep. Ofcourse this is with proper tuning and a MTX.

Then again even the best car can put down crappy numbers with a bad driver.

I never once said ALL 3L's are "slow". I know there are some quick ones out there.

I just don't believe its a high 13 second car. Thats all. Mid 14s? Sure. But I think a high 14 (14.6-14.9) is more realistic. Thats all. I didn't mean to bash all those 3L owners. I'm just stating what I think.

Mike

[timeless420]

Mike is there by chance one particular 3L you are thinking of in this case? Maybe one you saw at the track. I know that one does not have the SVT cams but just the Taurus cams which give better low end TQ but sacrifice upper end HP

[MaverickFlyer]

I think what Mike is saying is, High 13's are not realistic! There are so many other things that come into play. To drop this motor into just any car is not going to give you low numbers without cosidering the other factors!

[Mike]

I think what Mike is saying is, High 13's are not realistic! There are so many other things that come into play. To drop this motor into just any car is not going to give you low numbers without cosidering the other factors!

THANK YOU!

Somebody gets it!

[timeless420]

Mike, you know I very rarely make arguments on the internet but in this case you made a broad generalization in your first post. Ofcourse there are other factors, but you have failed to list them in any post.

In my example, the 14.3 with a motor built to a lesser degree with a Escape UIM/LIM vs a SVT UIM/LIM, a mediocre tune, and nothing more than basic suspension mods (springs/struts) came up with a much better number than what you suggested. To just say that the numbers Massiv "suggested" are not realistic as you did in your first post I feel are un justified and that was my reasoning behind my response.

[MaverickFlyer]

Okay guys, your high jacking Massiv's forsale thread, lets keep it clean!

[Mike]

Okay guys, your high jacking Massiv's forsale thread, lets keep it clean!

Good idea. I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this issue. :)

Mike

[Mike]

Mike, you know I very rarely make arguments on the internet but in this case you made a broad generalization in your first post. Ofcourse there are other factors, but you have failed to list them in any post.

In my example, the 14.3 with a motor built to a lesser degree with a Escape UIM/LIM vs a SVT UIM/LIM, a mediocre tune, and nothing more than basic suspension mods (springs/struts) came up with a much better number than what you suggested. To just say that the numbers Massiv "suggested" are not realistic as you did in your first post I feel are un justified and that was my reasoning behind my response.

I guess I should have read the original question a little better. I misunderstood. This motor is DEFINITELY capable of running some good times. No doubt.

But people need to know that they can't simply drop it in and expect to run in the 13s. Thats all I was saying.

I didn't mean for this to turn in to an 'argument'.

How about we just leave it at that and hope that Massiv can sell the motor. :)

Mike

[MaverickFlyer]

Okay, I split up the debate and the forsale thread, so Debate away! ;)

[iNFAMOUS]

I thought I'd put my 2 cents into this one since that motor was mine. Quarter mile times are heavily dependent on the driver. The best 1/4 mile time on a 3L is 13.5 by DemonSVT. His setup minus the tuning is very similar to the motor Massiv's selling. Nima also ran Low 14's (14.2 i believe) with his 3L which comes from the same source the motor in question is from. With that being said I think a 3L motor such as this can put down close to 220hp at the wheels. When you consider the cougar weights roughly 3000 lbs, low 14's or high 13's are achievable with a competent driver. Just my 2 cents..

[timeless420]

The english language is a great thing isn't it? Mike, my posts were not meant to be argumentative nor attack you, but more so a more detailed explanation on how Massiv came to his numbers. 13.9 is on more of the un-realistic side and it would take one hell of a dirver to do it and ideal conditions. The middle numbers seem more practical to me but anyone running 14.8-14.9 on a decent 3L build with accompanying mods should either a) learn to drive or b) find different way to spend thier money.

[timeless420]

I thought I'd put my 2 cents into this one since that motor was mine. Quarter mile times are heavily dependent on the driver. The best 1/4 mile time on a 3L is 13.5 by DemonSVT. His setup minus the tuning is very similar to the motor Massiv's selling. Nima also ran Low 14's (14.2 i believe) with his 3L which comes from the same source the motor in question is from. With that being said I think a 3L motor such as this can put down close to 220hp at the wheels. When you consider the cougar weights roughly 3000 lbs, low 14's or high 13's are achievable with a competent driver. Just my 2 cents..

An additional note to DemonSVT's time was that he was running drag slicks when doing it and consequently sheared a half-shaft, which is much more impressive than breaking a tri-pod. Bottom line is he "does" know how to drive his car and his times reflect it (even with his 2.5L he had great times)

In my case I doubt I will post my first few slips mainly b/c I never done 1/4 mile runs before since I am more of a road course person. However, the et should give an idea of it's potential regardless.

[Mike]

The english language is a great thing isn't it? Mike, my posts were not meant to be argumentative nor attack you, but more so a more detailed explanation on how Massiv came to his numbers. 13.9 is on more of the un-realistic side and it would take one hell of a dirver to do it and ideal conditions. The middle numbers seem more practical to me but anyone running 14.8-14.9 on a decent 3L build with accompanying mods should either a) learn to drive or b) find different way to spend thier money.
I agree 110%.

Anyone with a 3L similar to this should run mid 14s. I guess I was a bit off when I said high 14s to low 15s. I guess a more accurate estimate would be a mid to high 14 for an average driver. A good driver can no doubt get a low 14 out of it.

I guess we were on the same page afterall. :)

You know what I need? A ride in a nice 3L. ;)

Mike

[MaverickFlyer]

That's why I wanted the 3L shoot-out at last years HamillFest. But Only Puck Showed Up! :shrug:

[Mike]

That's why I wanted the 3L shoot-out at last years HamillFest. But Only Puck Showed Up! :shrug:

....and ran a VERY slow time. 15.1 if I recall correctly, because I beat him with a 14.9. :biggrin:

The only time he broke in to the 14s was when he was running nitrous.

Mike

[iNFAMOUS]

In my case I doubt I will post my first few slips mainly b/c I never done 1/4 mile runs before since I am more of a road course person. However, the et should give an idea of it's potential regardless.

Whats going on Evan, doubting yourself already?? :)... You just wait until my imported 2L rolls around. All jokes asside though I'm in the same boat, never ran a 1/4 mile, but we definately need to roll out come spring.

[jaged]

hmmmmmm where to find a 3L.......



At fest this year DanG ran a 14.3 w/no secondaries and a crappy tune. i couldnt tell you a good guess with mine since the roads havent beed dry enough to really beat on it since i got it tuned but id guess high 14's would be about right. Really depends on the driver and conditions. I ran 16.15 at fest in the 2.5 atx and could have broke into the 15's at HF since the weather was better. Ill have a gtech time sat if the roads are decent for 1/4 mile in the 3L

[Mike]

hmmmmmm where to find a 3L.......



At fest this year DanG ran a 14.3 w/no secondaries and a crappy tune. i couldnt tell you a good guess with mine since the roads havent beed dry enough to really beat on it since i got it tuned but id guess high 14's would be about right. Really depends on the driver and conditions. I ran 16.15 at fest in the 2.5 atx and could have broke into the 15's at HF since the weather was better. Ill have a gtech time sat if the roads are decent for 1/4 mile in the 3L

Thats a little different. DanG has a turbo'ed 3L. ;)

Mike

[Massiv]

Yeah the weight of that turbo must've really been slowing him down on that run... ;)

Speaking of 13-second 3L's... maybe I can make some money on this? What odds are we looking at that I can pull a 13-second quarter mile on my hybrid setup?

Massiv.

[MaverickFlyer]

Thats a little different. DanG has a turbo'ed 3L. ;)

Mike

Yeah, Slightly different story there!

and Pucks clutch was slipping at Hamillfest! :tongue:

[MaverickFlyer]

Yeah the weight of that turbo must've really been slowing him down on that run... ;)

Speaking of 13-second 3L's... maybe I can make some money on this? What odds are we looking at that I can pull a 13-second quarter mile on my hybrid setup?

Massiv.

13 flat? ;)

[Mike]

Yeah the weight of that turbo must've really been slowing him down on that run... ;)

Speaking of 13-second 3L's... maybe I can make some money on this? What odds are we looking at that I can pull a 13-second quarter mile on my hybrid setup?

Massiv.

I don't mean the turbo "slowed him down". I know the car wasn't running properly. Had it been, he would've been down in to the low 13s.

As for you getting into the 13s. I don't know. I guess i'll believe it when I see it.

Mike

[Massiv]

Yeah, I know. It'll be cool to see what he can run once he's got it all figured out.

And Maverick, by 13's, I mean 13.999 or lower!

Massiv.

[iNFAMOUS]

Speaking of 13-second 3L's... maybe I can make some money on this? What odds are we looking at that I can pull a 13-second quarter mile on my hybrid setup?
Massiv.

I got a better one.... What are the odds that you actually take your beast to the track or dyno.... :rofl:

[MaverickFlyer]

Yeah, I know. It'll be cool to see what he can run once he's got it all figured out.

And Maverick, by 13's, I mean 13.999 or lower!

Massiv.

Just checking! :rofl:

I think Dan finally got it all figured out! Now we just need to see it run! ;)

[Massiv]

All true, boys... All true. Now that Timeless has his mostly dialled in, we'll be hitting some tracks in the spring to see how they run. Tentative results show them to be basically dead even.

Massiv.

[hamill]

One key factor that no-one is taking into account is our climate and the tracks here. St. Thomas is typically the slowest track around and has poor prepping thus creating poor launches no matter what. Grand bend is the opposite, and Cayuga is in the middle. Our worst factor is humidity. I've personally seen some stangs run high 12's one day...all day, and hit mid 13's the next with no change in the setup to the car, just the humidity.

So on the right day, with good conditions, you can rock it!

[Iceotron]

One key factor that no-one is taking into account is our climate and the tracks here. St. Thomas is typically the slowest track around and has poor prepping thus creating poor launches no matter what. Grand bend is the opposite, and Cayuga is in the middle. Our worst factor is humidity. I've personally seen some stangs run high 12's one day...all day, and hit mid 13's the next with no change in the setup to the car, just the humidity.

So on the right day, with good conditions, you can rock it!


And where did we run for Hamillfest again?


As far as the 3L in the 13's or Massiv's car in the 13's it'll take some luck and one hell of a launch. Having an LSD will also help dramatically. I can say from experience though that a 220HP+ 230TQ+ car WILL hit 13's IF they have drag radials or better, good suspension, inserted or solid motor mounts, LSD, and possibly that traction bar thats available now. I had good tires, decent suspension ,a solid front mount, a slipping clutch and hit 14.033 <---thats a kick in the balls right there.

[ND4SPD]

if i ever really got dirty in the engine bay - i would definitely take the icotron approach... you had the fastest cougar, and seemed like the least amount of headaches ;)