Question about S/C and PATS re-key...

[aircougar1]

OK... I've done all the searching I can handle for one really long night, and I have found nothing related to SVT motor swap with a Vortech S/C.

All these parts that I got from another member about a year ago, and I went over absolutely everything I could think of in preparation for this install.
SVT complete motor, with Vortech S/C including the SVT ecu with the already installed Vortech chip in the ecu.

Now, I remember asking this person about the PATS rekey, and he said he never had to do it when he installed it into his Cougar. the car fired right up no problem. Despite everything I have read on this forum, he said it didn't need to be done because it worked when he installed all those parts.

I'm not calling anyone on B.S., but how can a S/C SVT Cougar be driven to the Dealership on a stock ECU without MAJOR problems???

Also, isn't there a way to reprogram a new set of keys, like the ones that you could get from Ebay that have the keyless entry buttons and brand new keys.
How do you program the new ones to the ecu in the car??? If you can do that, why can't you reprogram you existing key to a different Ecu, like an SVT????

These are things I have been pondering for a while and I need clarification.

thanks!!!

[Blackcoog]

Tow it there and have it done. I don't think it would make it on the stock program.

The dealership is the only one (unless you have their scan tool) that can do it. You need to have two working keys to program more keys on your own. If you drop a new computer in there you won't have any working keys. As far as the other guy you are talking about. He is either lying or his PAT's is F'ed up.

[aircougar1]

Can I just bring the Ecu down there without the car or do they need some info from the car???

[Blackcoog]

I pretty sure they need the car. The scan tool they use to program the keys hooks into the OBD port as far as I know.

[aircougar1]

OK, thanks!!

I have a friend at work who can borrow a flat bed, so we can get it to the dealer, that is if we can even get my car up it considering how low it is..LOL!

[Buckshot77]

The ECU will need re-keyed and has to be done at the dealer with the car so they can use the ignition switch to do the keying. As far as driving the car there, that's easy even with the vortech installed. Remember, the boost does not start coming on until 3500-4000 rpms and builds from there up to redline so you're not running full boost. As long as you keep the revs below 4000 you'll be fine on stock programming as you're not really adding anything to the engine performance at that point.

I put several hundred miles on my car at one point in time doing the break in miles without a chip.

Rick

[aircougar1]

The ECU will need re-keyed and has to be done at the dealer with the car so they can use the ignition switch to do the keying. As far as driving the car there, that's easy even with the vortech installed. Remember, the boost does not start coming on until 3500-4000 rpms and builds from there up to redline so you're not running full boost. As long as you keep the revs below 4000 you'll be fine on stock programming as you're not really adding anything to the engine performance at that point.

I put several hundred miles on my car at one point in time doing the break in miles without a chip.

Rick

Yeah, but I have an SVT motor going in as well, won't the stock program screw up the way an SVT motor runs, considering compression and the cams??? Maybe I'm confused, but even though it is about 2-3 miles to the dealer, I'm a little nervous about this considering there is a different motor going in. If I was bossting the stock motor then that makes sense to me, but is it safe with the SVT motor and the stock ecu driving under 4,000 rpms?

[mond12345]

Just shift at 2,000 rpms.

[Buckshot77]

The motor should make no difference. The stock program will run an SVT motor just fine. The SVT ECU actually would have a more aggressive tune than the stock one. For the few miles you're going, injector sizing and MAF calibration shouldn't really come into play either especially if keeping it in the lower rev range.

Rick

[aircougar1]

OK, I'm going to take your word on it, and I'll give it a shot when I finally get the thing running! I appreciate the help!

[DemonSVT]

Here is the real question.

Why would you waste your money paying for a dealer reflash when you are going to need an XCal2 (i.e. custom dyno program) to tune it anyway??? :crazy:

You can XCal the stock code.

[Logan Motorsports]

Yea, you should be able to get a chip/Xcal made that will run that motor with the supercharger on the stock Cougar computer. Many people will tell you that it will run fine without a custom tune, but we've found that even the Vortech tunes can be improved by at least 20 hp, sometimes more. I'd highly reccommend finding a good shop to set you up with a tune to get it running, and then driving the car to the shop and getting it tuned on the dyno. That is the only way to get the car running how you want it to.

[aircougar1]

Here is the real question.

Why would you waste your money paying for a dealer reflash when you are going to need an XCal2 (i.e. custom dyno program) to tune it anyway??? :crazy:

You can XCal the stock code.

Why exactly would you sat I need this??? I just need a re-key from my car to the SVT ecu that already has a Vortech chip in it. I just want to be able to turn the car on and drive it with the setup I received.
How would I go about running with an Xcal2 setup??? Just use my stock computer and get the Xcal2 from ADC, or will I need another chip from ADC as well as the Xcal2???

i need some details about options.

[Buckshot77]

The xcal2 replaces the need for a chip. Basically it's a handheld flasher that you buy with a custom program all ready set up for your car's perameters. However, if you're working with the old vortech kit that still uses the FMU and such, you might just be better off sticking with the vortech programmed chip for that until you're ready to ditch the FMU and get bigger injectors and then go to the xcal2. Not the most cost efficient way to go about it, but it will work.

Rick

[DemonSVT]

A vortech kit with a hack tuned FMU and their POS Stuporchip programs. That's a winner. :rolleyes:


Tune it correctly or pick another hobby. 'nuff said.

[aircougar1]

A vortech kit with a hack tuned FMU and their POS Stuporchip programs. That's a winner. :rolleyes

Tune it correctly or pick another hobby. 'nuff said.

Yeah, you are being a REAL big help right now!!:rolleyes:

I could use a little more insight as to what else I could be doing with this kit.
I have heard nothing about removing the FMU, and getting bigger injectors until now!
So what do I do???
I have been pondering the Xcal2 for a while now, but figured since I have the whole original setup that I would just run with that. Considering most people are and they are still running, that seemed like a good idea. But, Demon you could try helping me understand how to go about a set-up with the Xcal2 instead of throwing out needless remarks!

I want this Supercharger to run as good as I can make it, and without any added headaches like this PATS re-key B.S. So what injectors should I go with, and will an Xcal2 from ADC set me up with programming I need from my stock Cougar ecu without a chip???

I appreciate all the help being thrown my way, I'm learning as much as I can to get my setup right, and I'm doing all the work myself. So keep the input coming...and leave unnecessary crap out of this ...please.

[Logan Motorsports]

You could get an XCal 2 or a Chip, they both do the same thing. One is just a software flash and one is a hardware flash, both from SCT. You need to understand that an XCal 2 accomplishes the same goal as a chip, just in a different manner. Go to www.sctflash.com to get more information about SCT's products. A skilled tuner should be able to let you know what you need to get the car running right, and he/she should be able to tune it just fine with your stock computer. I cannot stress enough that you take your car to a dyno shop and get it tuned on a dyno. Mail order tuning is fine for stock type vehicles, but any time you have a non-stock engine in your car it is well worth the money to get it tuned on a dyno. Supercharged engines can be blown up easier than you think, and unless the air-fuel ratio is PERFECT, you could be running on borrowed time. Not only that, but if you want the kind of driveability and throttle response of a stock vehicle, you need to get it tuned.

[DemonSVT]

They may essentially "do" the same thing.
However the main Real difference between a Xcal and a chip is you change make minor changes with an Xcal. ($350) A static chip is just that. Non-self tunable!

Also for a couple hundred more ($650) the Xcal offers 100% self tune-ability and that is really a must for tuning any setup so far from the stock setup. (unless you have a SCT dyno tuner near you)
Chasing a mail order static chip tune is a big waste of money. Emphasis on BIG!

~~~

The only correct way to tune is by properly sizing the injectors and making a custom program for your setup.
24lb injectors will support ~300 wheels which is more then a stock 2.5L engine will make with a Vortech.
The stock MAF is "safe" to about 270 wheels which is also a bit higher then a Vortech on a stock engine. An SVT MAF will do ~300 wheels. If you upgrade the MAF "further" then get an 80mm Lightning MAF. It will support ~450 wheels but get enough resolution at low voltage to make the 2.5L driveable.

I may seem "mean" but IMHSFHO if you can't do your own homework then you shouldn't do a project like boosting an engine. Also all this information has been posted countless times before on both sites. (NECO & CEG) Hence why I seem to have little to no patience for said people.

I hope this information has helped you.

[aircougar1]

Well thanks for at least describing what you meant by your previous comments, however, I already knew about the Xcal2 info and what it does versus a chip, and all of the upgraded MAFs and injectors capabilities.
I have "done my homework for over the last year or so, trying to get everything I need for this to run. I got an absolutely incredible deal on the main SVT/SC parts that I have from another member, and it all worked perfectly fine before they were transfered over to me. I expect there to be some wrinkles that will need to be smoothed out, but the way you guys talk about our Contours/Cougars its like they are so much more complicated than any other vehicle.
Everything you described has been read and re-read many, many times over this past year, but apparently there is no definite, bottom line when it comes to boosting a Cougar/Contour. There are plenty of people trying it right now, and so many different routes by which they are going about it, its very difficult to choose a direction to go in AND stick with it.

I appreciate the effort to help me sort these things out, but like you stated, these facts have been discussed for quite a while now, and I have been following along. I'm just going to get the damn thing running with what I have, flash the SVT ecu, and see how things are running, then I will make the necessary adjustments needed thereafter. I will still have my stock computer, then I can get it tuned with a chip(or Xcal2) on a dyno when I pick up a bigger MAF and Injectors (actually, I might already have a set of 24# ones in the basement...)

Anyways, thanks again....:)