View Full Version : 3L Turbo on the Dyno. Now with dyno plot scans!
Now with scans!
Got the new chip from ADC Express Mail this morning from the Post Office, wiped the ECU while I was cleaning the plugs before the dyno, put the chip in, fired it up. Watched the fuel trims, we were good to go. Drove it out to Excessive Motorsports in Manassas, VA. This a Mustang shop- Currently they're working on a 800+rwhp twin-turbo Cobra. :eek:
Run 1:
Stock (File 0) turbo program. Boost controller on 25%, max 6psi before 20% trim. When the gas was hit in 4th, there was more pinging than engine noise. But then it suddenly went away (MAF above 2.5V triggered open-loop). Ran to 4200RPMs, started pinging AGAIN. He shut it down.
http://dglicoes.home.comcast.net/Run1Sized.jpg
Run 2:
10% richer (File 2) program. boost controller on 25%, max 6psi before 20% trim. Hit the gas, started pinging AGAIN, quieted down, then got massive ping at 3400RPM. Shut down again.
http://dglicoes.home.comcast.net/Run2Sized.jpg
Run 3:
Same program. Let it cool for a while - Boost controller on 20% this time, 6psi max, 20% trim. This time we ran it through 'till 6500, where there was a slight ping, and he shut it down. Better to err on the safe side.
Max boost: 9.0psi.
Now, for the numbers................ <drum roll>
http://dglicoes.home.comcast.net/Run3Sized.jpg
Car's not even getting started. The guys there said as soon as ADC gets the timing right, we'll hit 400fwhp after being able to turn the boost up where it should be (14-16psi on 93 octane).
How's 'dems apples? :banana:
J-Man
12-22-2005, 04:12 PM
very nice dan!
so 314 hp is at 9 psi?
XplosivePlushToy
12-22-2005, 04:13 PM
I think "wow" fits in nicely here.
Nafunu32
12-22-2005, 04:21 PM
Thats insane... ever figure out how to get traction on take offs? ;)
nadthomas
12-22-2005, 04:23 PM
Nice
jrak123
12-22-2005, 04:27 PM
hey dan I have too much rubber on my tires can you take care of that for me? 'cause I know you can put all that power to the pavement
Djperico
12-22-2005, 05:14 PM
Nice numbers there guy. Can't wait for you to hit the 400 mark. :)
Kinger
12-22-2005, 05:32 PM
400FWHP? I was hoping for 500, you got the build for it, wring it out man!
You got the build for it, wring it out man!
Um, yeah. Let me get right on that with it pinging as bad as it does. :disgust:
Everyone EXCEPT Jesse: Thanks, and stay tuned! :biggrin:
jrak123
12-22-2005, 05:34 PM
400FWHP? I was hoping for 500, you got the build for it, wring it out man!
guess I should have done his head work...j/k:rofl: :rofl:
Kinger
12-22-2005, 05:37 PM
Wuss.... :)
What the crap is the deal with ADC, can you find a tuner in your area with some knowledge that can modify that chip for you? Seems to me to get the most out of her you need the tuner right there working out the bugs.
jrak123
12-22-2005, 05:39 PM
Wuss.... :)
What the crap is the deal with ADC, can you find a tuner in your area with some knowledge that can modify that chip for you? Seems to me to get the most out of her you need the tuner right there working out the bugs.
From hat I heard a lot of shops wont f' with someone elses tune/chip they want to do it for you from scratch, atleast that is what Donnie Walsh told me.
jrak123
12-22-2005, 05:46 PM
ha the litle leg humper got something right ;)
BigBalledOX
12-22-2005, 06:23 PM
Thanks, and stay tuned! :biggrin:
Isn't it more like GET tuned? :rofl: :tongue:
Frosty
12-22-2005, 06:58 PM
Isn't it more like GET tuned? :rofl: :tongue:
:rofl: I was thinking the same thing.
Nice numbers Dan!
Topik
12-22-2005, 08:34 PM
awesome dan. Your voicemail was messed up so I had to wait until now. So much more potential too. Can't wait until everything gets straightened out timing wise.
fordrule
12-22-2005, 09:10 PM
Isn't it more like GET tuned? :rofl: :tongue:
go for it dan good job. cant wait to see that beast on the 1/4
Blackcoog
12-22-2005, 09:54 PM
Actually you can't mess with someone elses tune. The SCT software won't let you look at someone elses tune. They would have to start from scratch if he went somewhere else.
Instigator
12-22-2005, 11:06 PM
max power at 5700 rpms? how did the curve look, i thought we we supposed to carry the power band well past 6500 with our cam setup......
sorry im confused :crazy:
RodneyBur
12-22-2005, 11:44 PM
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
nice!!
Hey Dan, how come you are using a chip instead of a piggy back system where you can tune it as needed?
DemonSVT
12-23-2005, 12:17 AM
Congrats on getting it running well enough to dyno. I am sure a lot of work went into that.
I certainly hope you find a lot more power in your setup.
314 at 9psi is just warming up a stock 3L.
Turbo's twiddling it's thumbs waiting to spool and actually do something... Remember, that's at 20% on the boost controller- It was 9psi, and we know what the T3/4 is capable of (the 400fwhp 2.5L)...
max power at 5700 rpms? how did the curve look, i thought we we supposed to carry the power band well past 6500 with our cam setup......
sorry im confused :crazy:
DemonSVT
12-23-2005, 12:38 AM
I forgot to add.
You will want to lower the IMRC point to around 3000 rpm.
I predict around 440-450 wheels at best cfm flow. (tune willing) I suppose I could dig out a map of a 60-1 trim with a .62 housing.
Demon- Check the scans- See what you think. Really, only run 3 is useable...
fordrule
12-23-2005, 01:26 AM
the beast is starting to waken......
PREDATOR
12-23-2005, 02:20 AM
Bad ASS! Hope you get all the bugs worked out :cool:
tr0nic
12-23-2005, 02:35 AM
I look forward to running you at fest man. It will be a great race.
NobleForums
12-23-2005, 05:28 AM
Very nice! That's a load of torque, especially for the power.
azbobbybooshay10
12-23-2005, 05:49 AM
:eek: I've got one thing to say.
DAYUM!!
Ok, one more: How do you spell "torque steer"? Knowing Dan though, He'll find a way to make it as friendly as possible! Way to go, good luck with getting it tuned in right!
Another reason I'm glad AZDC is just a 30 minute (3 hours in rush hour, lol) drive from my house! I can't wait to get down there in person and let Keith work his magic on my car once I get my 3L going in the future!
Bigoudi
12-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Very nice man! :biggrin:
FYI: Nasty things happen at 23lbs, so don't try it... :tongue: Ask Keith about it!
Greg
warmonger
12-23-2005, 11:54 AM
Dan,
Wow! I'm impressed with the torque at low rpm but I really want to see the midrange and see how it flattens out or not.
318 ft-lbs at 3100 rpm is impressive.
This thing is more than capable of 450 hp!
I'm comparing your cam setup to the basic escape cam setup and right now at your boost pressure you are pulling more low end torque earlier on, though you are running a different boost controller and a 0.65 exhaust trim... almost too differnt to compare I guess. The trim and boost controller combined will change it enough that we can't really compare the low-end performance of the cams very accurately I guess.
Just for comparison, let me post my scan at 8-9psi with escape cams in this same thread so you can see how the curves differ
These runs were on the basic escape hybrid motor with converted factory manifolds, you know the one where I was trying to prove that for 2 grand and some ingenuity you could drop plenty of horsepower? Well I never dyno'd it at 12psi like I was going to. Anyway, you can see where your curve shows much better low end torque, but I think that could be a combination of the smaller exhaust housing size than what I have and not running headers versus stock manifolds.
So I wonder what peak flow will look like on yours with the smaller housing?
Anyway, you can see that your system will way outperform this basic setup once you just get it tweaked right.
http://www.rumodded.com/warmonger/Jan%202004%20turbo%20changes/dyno_325hp_feb_2004.jpg
B3NN3TT
12-23-2005, 12:26 PM
:eek: I've got one thing to say.
DAYUM!!
Ok, one more: How do you spell "torque steer"?
Not with an LSD.
That car's a rocket. And it's only gonna get better. Nice work, Dan!
cougarprophet
12-23-2005, 12:57 PM
i feel like im in the presence of a god...danG thats fukin amazin....
beyondloadedSE
12-23-2005, 02:09 PM
max power at 5700 rpms? how did the curve look, i thought we we supposed to carry the power band well past 6500 with our cam setup......
sorry im confused :crazy:
Im running the stock 2.5L non svt cams, and my power curve is pretty much identical to Dan's. Power begins to fall off right around 6,000 RPMS. Im guessing the 3.0L and Mazda 6 cams that Dan is using are similar.
Rikenbomb
12-23-2005, 02:59 PM
You guys also have to remember that they heard pinging around that rpm range so he could've been laying off the throttle.
DemonSVT
12-23-2005, 03:14 PM
The higher low end numbers are inflated due to the IMRC and the fact he is running a much smaller exhaust housing. (verses Tom) These numbers are not in a range valid for performance. Below IMRC is just cruising range. Also that smaller housing will limit his upper rpm cfm ability. That's why I predicted to reach maybe 450 wheels. One could plot the map and get within 5%. Even with the larger exhaust housing (like Tom's) the 60-1 will not surpass about 49lb/min at 20psi. Anything above 20psi is really just hot air - the 60-1 is not a "high boost" turbo per se. Well definitely not on an engine of our displacement.
{edit}
Just did some fast calculations. (liberally rounded)
18 psi = ~43lb/mi & 415-420HP
20+ psi = ~46lb/min & 440-450HP
MagicHallucinations
12-23-2005, 03:44 PM
very nice numbers Dan........def just getting started though;) can't wait to see the final results:thumbsup:
what a beast she's going to be:bowdown:
M
FastCougar
12-23-2005, 03:50 PM
I just took a ride in the car with Dan at lunch ... DAMN!!!!! I didn't hear any pinging because Dan wasn't laying into the throttle, but I couldn't tell ... the car's a rocket, even without any traction. Starting off in 2nd gear and lightly easing into the throttle and the car would start to loose traction towards 4,000 RPMs ... this car has too much torque and not enough traction. I forsee a large invoice in Dan's future from a driveline shop for some custom axles :evil:
VERY impressed and I must say thanks to Dan for reinspiring me to get my setup underway :thumbsup:
rbls4ever
12-23-2005, 09:19 PM
i rode in it when he was still running 12 psi. no secondaries. it felt like a high 13 second car then with NO traction
FastCougar
12-24-2005, 01:25 AM
With proper tuning and traction (race slicks w/custom axles), I'm sure he could punch out mid/low 12's ... if and only if he could get the rubber to stay planted.
Topik
12-24-2005, 03:08 PM
Hey trevor what is the name of that track you live like around the corner from 1/4 mile? I forgot the name of the track. hehe.
GrandMasterKhan
12-24-2005, 05:49 PM
Awesome Dan! Thats quite a beast you have there!
It was pretty quick when I rode in it...how it is now? hehe
gyger
12-24-2005, 09:35 PM
Nice job Dan
Sounds like she's coming together nicely.
It's cool to finally see a Cougar with numbers that high...again.
Now the only problem is you have all that
power in a FWD LSD car. Not like you could
steer a FWD with a posi front end though:biggrin:
What are your plans for it? I know you aren't really into
1/4 you gonna auto cross it?
DemonSVT
12-25-2005, 01:21 AM
Now the only problem is you have all that
power in a FWD LSD car. Not like you could
steer a FWD with a posi front end though:biggrin:
Posi-traction is just GM's "name" for their limited slip.
Posi-Loc was Mopars. (then track-loc, then etc)
Locker was Fords. (which begat the famous Detroit locker for 9" rears)
Simply enough it was just short for Positive Traction.
Either way they are all forms of limited slip differentials. A torque sensing differential (like Torsen or Quaife) is superior to a clutch, spring, or viscous-fluid differential. A "true" locker (i.e. drag cars) will not split power but they do suck for street driving. They HATE turns with a passion!
CougarGuy939
12-25-2005, 11:41 AM
i have faith that dan will figure something out to put all that power to the ground
warmonger
12-26-2005, 10:00 AM
The higher low end numbers are inflated due to the IMRC and the fact he is running a much smaller exhaust housing. (verses Tom) These numbers are not in a range valid for performance. Below IMRC is just cruising range. Also that smaller housing will limit his upper rpm cfm ability. That's why I predicted to reach maybe 450 wheels. One could plot the map and get within 5%. Even with the larger exhaust housing (like Tom's) the 60-1 will not surpass about 49lb/min at 20psi. Anything above 20psi is really just hot air - the 60-1 is not a "high boost" turbo per se. Well definitely not on an engine of our displacement.
{edit}
Just did some fast calculations. (liberally rounded)
18 psi = ~43lb/mi & 415-420HP
20+ psi = ~46lb/min & 440-450HP
It will be interesting to see what the torque curve looks like on these cams in NA form with tuning as well as when Dan actually gets a solid boosted run without any issues so that we can compare.
I don't think it is really going to get a lot higher in the midrange while he remains at this pressure setting, just a bit more once the timing is fixed.
Then, as he raises the boost I'm guessing he will get a much bigger midrange spike/hump similar in shape to what I've shown above but not much more to the low and high.
I've done three different turbo configurations and I'm finding that 6-8psi is enough boost to figure out the overal character of the engines response curve, at least in the low and high rpm ranges as they define the limits of the turbos efficiency. Raising the boost higher results in higher numbers, but no real changes to how the graph looks overall.
The more boost applied will result in more power at the area and rpm that the turbo and engine are most efficient at.
Yeah, this isn't to say that his system will totally dominate mine... :tongue:
especially not now with my newer changes.
fordrule
12-26-2005, 07:12 PM
how long until the beast is rockin on the dyno
RobCSVT
12-26-2005, 07:20 PM
Very impressive numbers so far.
Driveshaft Shop has stage 5 axles available for the Contours, I don't know how different the axles are for the Cougars. And they run about $1700.
Good luck with everything. I hope to be in the 400+whp range within the next couple weeks.
Robert
Instigator
12-27-2005, 11:06 AM
Very impressive numbers so far.
Driveshaft Shop has stage 5 axles available for the Contours, I don't know how different the axles are for the Cougars. And they run about $1700.
Good luck with everything. I hope to be in the 400+whp range within the next couple weeks.
Robert
i have a set of those axles, and they fit perfectly fine:)
gyger
12-28-2005, 12:05 PM
Posi-traction is just GM's "name" for their limited slip.
Posi-Loc was Mopars. (then track-loc, then etc)
Locker was Fords. (which begat the famous Detroit locker for 9" rears)
Simply enough it was just short for Positive Traction.
Either way they are all forms of limited slip differentials. A torque sensing differential (like Torsen or Quaife) is superior to a clutch, spring, or viscous-fluid differential. A "true" locker (i.e. drag cars) will not split power but they do suck for street driving. They HATE turns with a passion!
yeah I just use the word posi cause everyone knows it. Try driving a lifted
4WD with lockers front and back.:biggrin: