99 Taurus 3.0 Vs. 4 cylinder 00 Accord

[Nemesis]

Beat it by about 3-3.5 cars at 80mph. We were at a stoplight exiting out of my neighborhood. I actually recognize the kid from my town, and hes seen my car before and he relized that I was in the Taurus. I revved a couple time knowing that it would be an easy kill, he laughed and revved back. I seriously got a nice jump off the line powerbreaking it and shut off at 80 since the speed limit was 55. Cool guy tho, hope I see em again to tell he got beat by my moms riced out Taurus :rofl:

[ND4SPD]

dude... you should take the engine out of it, and throw it in your cougar, and put the cougar one in the Taurus... she would never know! :biggrin:

[Nemesis]

my mom would beat the living hell outta me I already did too much to that car as is and im restoring it back to the way it was... and no I wont tell anyone what I did with it...since im embarrassed :rofl:

[ND4SPD]

c'mon!!! SPILL IT!

[CougarBalla2k5]

VTEC accord would've gotten you I think.

My friend Chas has a 4 cyl vtec w/ headers and intake......its not fast....but it ain't bad a'tall

[Nemesis]

Call BS somewhere else, I have no reason to lie, the SOHC Vtec engine in that accord only put out 150 hp.

but im sure in your town, much like in mine Vtec owns everything :rolleyes:


oh and by you saying he has a 4 cylinder Vtec, that would include the following engines... so which one does your friend have?

B16A3
B17A
B18B OBD-I
B18C1 OBD-I
B16A2
B16B
B18B OBD-II
B18C1 OBD-II
B18C5
B20

[CougarBalla2k5]

I wasn't calling bs.....you never said this accord even had vtec.....I was just saying that the ones that do have vtec are pretty decent. Why does everyone always jump the gun on me, settle down.

[RigaTony00]

I sense a :lock:


Every thread cougaballa posts in gets locked. lol. He has to hold the Neco record for most locked threrads.


Back to the topic: Nice work George! :)


Tony

[ND4SPD]

is it just me, or does all vtec really do is provide a better management of the electronics and junk than say a non-vtech engine...
its 'variable timing & electronic control' right??
"vtec" doesn't give any extra power, it just makes better use of whats there right?


-i know nothing about vtec engines, so someone please... enlighten me if i'm wrong...

[CougarBalla2k5]

Originally posted by: RigaTony00
I sense a :lock:


Every thread cougaballa posts in gets locked. lol. He has to hold the Neco record for most locked threrads.


Back to the topic: Nice work George! :)


Tony

Thats because people flip on me for something I didn't even say/mean. Maybe I just don't vocalize too well. I don't know which engine he has, it is a stock engine I know that. And not japanese. My cougar can beat him.....so I'm sure you did beat one with a Taurus....I'm not disputing that at all.....I was just aying that the VTEC ones are not bad at all.....non VTEC accord :thumbsdn:

ND4SPD Well, Chas always says "When my VTEC kicks in at 4k I am gone" and its true...so I'm not sure man.

[Nemesis]

VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) allows the engine to effectively have multiple camshafts. As the engine jumps into different rpm ranges the ecu can activate alternate lobes on the camshaft and change the cam's timing. Vtec is known for using best features of low-speed and high-speed camshafts in the same engine. You can actually hear when Vtec kicks in when you are racing someone equipped with it.

oh and i forgot to mention most VTECs are SOHC, only the DOHC VTEC engines are truly tuned for maximum performance.

[MagicHallucinations]

Originally posted by: CougarBalla2k5
VTEC accord would've gotten you I think.

My friend Chas has a 4 cyl vtec w/ headers and intake......its not fast....but it ain't bad a'tall

you never said this accord even had vtec.....I was just saying that the ones that do have vtec are pretty decent


he's in a 3lt taurus.........he's gonna win. i've beaten accords..........and i may be wrong but don't all newer honda's have vtec......it's not really an option is it:shrug: lol







M

[CougarBalla2k5]

I thought it was, maybe not.

3L Taurus isn't all that fast is it? My grandma has a 3.0 Taur and it doesn't seem any faster than my coug? They weigh more I would think.

[ND4SPD]

don't be so sure... the cougar is indeed a fat-***** in the weight department.
the car should never have weighed over 3000lbs with a 170hp 2.5 v6...

THAT is what makes it slow.

[CougarBalla2k5]

His is a DOHC VTEC IIRC

[Ness1216]

Tauruses only weigh like 100 pounds more, fully loaded i think, so power/weight is almost the same as the cougar. My aunt who drives really slow decided to floor it for some reason at like 30mph and when she downshifted tires spun for like 2 seconds. They are pretty fast, compared to cougars.

[ALiEN]

Originally posted by: DgnZCoug
Call BS somewhere else little boy, I have no reason to lie, the SOHC Vtec engine in that accord only put out 150 hp.

but im sure in your town, much like in mine Vtec owns everything :rolleyes:


oh and by you saying he has a 4 cylinder Vtec, that would include the following engines... so which one does your friend have?

B16A3
B17A
B18B OBD-I
B18C1 OBD-I
B16A2
B16B
B18B OBD-II
B18C1 OBD-II
B18C5
B20

u sure do know quite a bit about hondas which makes me curious as to if you have ever owned one or are just enthralled about the motor and its possibilities?

[Nemesis]

Originally posted by: ALiEN

Originally posted by: DgnZCoug
Call BS somewhere else little boy, I have no reason to lie, the SOHC Vtec engine in that accord only put out 150 hp.

but im sure in your town, much like in mine Vtec owns everything :rolleyes:


oh and by you saying he has a 4 cylinder Vtec, that would include the following engines... so which one does your friend have?

B16A3
B17A
B18B OBD-I
B18C1 OBD-I
B16A2
B16B
B18B OBD-II
B18C1 OBD-II
B18C5
B20

u sure do know quite a bit about hondas which makes me curious as to if you have ever owned one or are just enthralled about the motor and its possibilities?


well my first choice in a car was a Prelude SH with an H22 motor. Ever since I test drove one I was very "enthused" about the DOHC Vtec motor. For about 5-6 months I tried so damn hard to get that car, did reasearch, learned everything I could, and when I realized I couldnt afford it I started looking at Civic SI's. In my town there are a bunch of Honda guys and I usually get to listen in on a bunch of the conversations. I do have to give serious props to Honda for making an engine that is so "tuneable" and so easy to swap. One of the most amazing things I had ever seen was a Del Sol with an H22 swap w/Jackson racing SC. There are a lot of things that I dont know, since I dont have a car with one of those motors but its still nice to know you enemies :rofl:

Im not a huge fan of Hondas but I can appreciate a nicely modded one.

[ND4SPD]

wtf... i'm QUITE sure that you and i would not be friends if you had ended up with the Civic Si :tongue: heh!

[SamuraiCougar]

George maybe it was your custom exhaust work that helped the taur win. I see you didn't mention that in your story...

[Nemesis]

Originally posted by: ND4SPD
wtf... i'm QUITE sure that you and i would not be friends if you had ended up with the Civic Si :tongue: heh!


Originally posted by: GrayV6
George maybe it was your custom exhaust work that helped the taur win. I see you didn't mention that in your story...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


you guys are harsh

[ND4SPD]

well yah! you stole my rims! :tongue: :rofl:

[SLiDE]

here are the specs on the 99 ford taurus.

http://autos.msn.com/vip/engines.aspx?modelid=3131&src=vip

which actually surprised me... 3 different "levels" of the 3.0 liter motor.

145 hp
150 hp
and 185 hp.

the whole vtec thing is kind of interesting... other companies are doing their own versions. For example Toyota/Lexus has the VVT-i which is another form of variable valve timing.

here is a decent list of the engine codes for the honda motors...

http://www.torontoracing.ca/video/tech_hndacodes.html

People refer to VTEC like it was a magical boost of power that will push the 4 cyl motor to do incredible feats. The non VTEC motors are actually much torquier than the VTEC counterpart.... (at least in the integras).

The stock 4cyl accord motors found in the USDM market (as far as I know) are as follows:

F22B 2.2L USDM SOHC VTEC 94-97 Accord EX/97 2.2CL 145hp
F23A5 2.3L USDM SOHC 98+ Accord DX 135hp
F23A1 2.3L USDM SOHC VTEC 98+ Accord EX & LX/98-99 2.3CL 150hp
F23A4 2.3L USDM SOHC ULEV VTEC 98+ Accord EX & LX 148hp

Nothing special...


The only DOHC VTEC motors for the accord 4cyl are found in Japan. (correct me if I'm wrong)

This is an example of why kids do motor swaps. The JDM motors are fairly cheap, easy to install, built better and more powerful.
The US 99-00 Civic SI actually had a decent motor that put out a good amount of HP for its size. 1.6liter DOHC 160hp

If the Taurus "spanked" the accord... I would have to assume it was the 185hp 3liter.

[Nemesis]

Great post slide.

You are correct partially on the 3.0's having three steps . They came in the 3.0L OHV V6 generating 145hp and a 3.0L 200hp DOHC V6 (which is my moms)


the whole vtec thing is kind of interesting... other companies are doing their own versions. For example Toyota/Lexus has the VVT-i which is another form of variable valve timing.

Now, I-VTEC is VTEC, with a twist. Toyota's VVTL-i is the same thing as i-VTEC. Basically, in addition to VTEC, the ECU reads and modifies both intake and exhaust cam timing to an optimal point at every point on the RPM band. This is why the new RSX-S motors, even though they are only making 5 more hp than the old Type-R motors, are making around 12 more lb-ft of torque - because of i-vtec. Kinda funny when you think about other companies ganking the idea




The only DOHC VTEC motors for the accord 4cyl are found in Japan. (correct me if I'm wrong)

yes you are correct, unless of course there is a swap involved. The V6 Accords have DOHC Vtec. You are thinking of the Euro R

[ND4SPD]

omfg... i'm actually LEARNING on this forum!! custom_images/emoticons/shocked.gif

[B3NN3TT]

My understanding is that VTEC alleviates the problem of engines that are powerful on one end or the other.

For instance, the Cougar, as we all know, is a road car. A brute on the freeway, and happy as can be to run well over 80 MPH without breaking a sweat; but it is hard to get a good, quick launch because of lack of low-end power. My Saturn, on the other hand, is a stoplight warrior. It launches like a rocket; but when you get to about 60, it runs out of steam. Sucks for freeway driving, especially after driving the Cougar.

The VTEC uses a different set of engine dynamics on the low and high end, to more effectively use the power, both high and low. It downplays the weaknesses. Is this accurate?

[Nemesis]

Originally posted by: Bennett9000


The VTEC uses a different set of engine dynamics on the low and high end, to more effectively use the power, both high and low. It downplays the weaknesses. Is this accurate?

Correcto! Essentially VTEC allows many different camshaft profiles. Ideally you can have a "low RPM cam", then kick in the "big RPM cam". You've got the best of both worlds with Vtec.

[SLiDE]

even with the "high/low" cam settings, those small displacement engines are still pretty weak off the line...
Of course those J/R superchargers really helped in that department. :biggrin:

I used to own a civic... 1.6l sohc.. horrible from a stand still, but it was fun on the freeway. I think I ran a 16.7 in the quarter mile. heh..

Wait... I take that back... I'm thinking of JUST the civic...
I can't say that for all of them..
The bigger the motor, the better the torque... no displacement for displacement... blah blah blah

the 1.8 (integra motors) were probably by far the most popular to swap in.. 180ish horse for the GSR and um.... 195 for the type R.
still not a torque horse, but pop her into a lighter civic...

then the 2.2 prelude motor..
Those are supposed to be pretty rediculous in a light car. Have yet to ride in one :)

Sooo... i guess you can look at it this way. The biggest following for the honda is the Civic.... they're pretty slow... but when you feel that "VTEC" kick in... it feels much more substantial than it really is.

[ALiEN]

VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT! VCT!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Ness1216]

heh, VCT took away the egr valve thats all.

[ALiEN]

heh, yah, that was my little smartass post.

but this thread is actually becoming very interesting...lotta neat stuff about hondas you don't hear quite often around these boards aside from "omfg!!! i just smoked the mostest ugliest honda rice ever!!"

i think nd4spd said it best...

omfg... i'm actually LEARNING on this forum!!

there's no replacement for displac.......knowledge

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by: DgnZCoug
Great post slide.

You are correct partially on the 3.0's having three steps . They came in the 3.0L OHV V6 generating 145hp and a 3.0L 200hp DOHC V6 (which is my moms)


the whole vtec thing is kind of interesting... other companies are doing their own versions. For example Toyota/Lexus has the VVT-i which is another form of variable valve timing.

Now, I-VTEC is VTEC, with a twist. Toyota's VVTL-i is the same thing as i-VTEC. Basically, in addition to VTEC, the ECU reads and modifies both intake and exhaust cam timing to an optimal point at every point on the RPM band. This is why the new RSX-S motors, even though they are only making 5 more hp than the old Type-R motors, are making around 12 more lb-ft of torque - because of i-vtec. Kinda funny when you think about other companies ganking the idea




The only DOHC VTEC motors for the accord 4cyl are found in Japan. (correct me if I'm wrong)

yes you are correct, unless of course there is a swap involved. The V6 Accords have DOHC Vtec. You are thinking of the Euro R

OMG you are sooo sexeh....*drools*

[SLiDE]

oops... I lied... I ran a 17.7 with my civic in the quarter mile... YAY!!

Here's another little bit from what I've learned about the honda motors.

People create "Frankenstein" motors.

for example... Take a B18 non vtec from an integra or a B20 from a CRV and convert them to VTEC by swapping on a different head from a B16 (jdm civic or usdm 00-99 civic si)

Some guys use the LS or CRV motor for boost monsters... mainly because of the low compression and tall gearing... although the B20 (crv) block is weak and has been known to crack even if resleaved...

here...
check out this link... It's like a swap fest on the honda-tech boards..

http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroforum?id=18

it blows my mind what people do with the honda motors and parts... I'm not sure If there is any other company whose parts are so interchangable... except for maybe... chevy back in the old days?

[Nemesis]

You all should get a kick outta this...

Below youll see round-fronted Mini with a 16v 1600cc VTEC showing that it's certainly possible to fit the VTEC and still maintain the Mini's original looks. Its built on a regular Mini subframe with every thing cut off in front of the suspension towers. The guy uses 13" wheels with the largest custom brakes he could fit. The car took a total of 6 months to build and is used for hill-climbing and circuit racing. The car actually wheel-spins all the way through 3rd gear!. I have a video somewhere...ill try to find it when i get home...

http://www.btinternet.com/~honda.mini/hybrids/VTEC/Graphics/Hatfield_01_640x480.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~honda.mini/hybrids/VTEC/Graphics/Hatfield_02_640x480.jpg

[SLiDE]

lol.. now that is different...

barely fits. I like the intake filter all the way in the corner against the firewall.

I'll bet you couldn't even see through to the ground with that motor in it...

makes me curious as to what axels he used.

[CougarBalla2k5]

I can't see the ground in my cougar :( and yeh, chas has a SOHC VTEC. But its true about swapping a mid hp engine in a light car. My friend skeebo (don't ask) has a CRX with a B18A engine in it. He gets on it and just shoots off.

[Julie]

Ok... let me clear this up just a little.. Chas is my boyfriend so he can verify all of this. He has an F22B1 SOHC VTEC 94 Accord. When Alex and Chas raced, from what I remember, Chas beat him in the accord. BUT they did not run a full quarter mile.. so there is no telling what Alex could do at the track. So that's just clearing it up some... Chas has beat my ATX EVERY time we raced. I have NEVER beat his Accord and he's got more modifications on the way..

Julie

Edit: Skibo has a B18C5 motor in his CRX...

[CougarBalla2k5]

Originally posted by: Julie
Ok... let me clear this up just a little.. Chas is my boyfriend so he can verify all of this. He has an F22B1 SOHC VTEC 94 Accord. When Alex and Chas raced, from what I remember, Chas beat him in the accord. BUT they did not run a full quarter mile.. so there is no telling what Alex could do at the track. So that's just clearing it up some... Chas has beat my ATX EVERY time we raced. I have NEVER beat his Accord and he's got more modifications on the way..

Julie

Edit: Skibo has a B18C5 motor in his CRX...

Yeh and like I said I was noobs then.....I didn't run with over drive off or anything, didnt know what I was doing. I still want to race again, I don't know what would happen. And Julie, damnit, YOUR COUGAR DOES NOT COUNT. It is slower than my grandma in a wheelchair....argh.

EDIT ty for the correction on skIbo. I meant to add I think to that A part. thankya