Just got the blower pulley for the new coug supercharger kit.

[Jagular]

Hey guys! I'll post pics asap but I got the blower pulley for my supercharger kit today. This thing will bolt on the crank pulley and have a dedicated 8-rib belt for the S/C. I haven't decided what to build yet but I am leaning towards the roots blower. The kit will be based off of and eaton M90 or a whipple 1.6L. Depends on money and if someone else wants to put one or the other on their car. This pulley will also be the pulley that I use for the Procharger kit. It is 7.5 inches in diameter and is 8-rib like I said earlier.

[PuckPuck]

how much pass the crank pulley will it stick out?

[exigent]

Theres like .75" between the crankpully and the car.... not only that but it changes the mass of the dampner... you can kiss your main bearings goodby...

[Jagular]

Well, I've measured this car many many times and there is 2.5" between the frame and the belt assembly.
What do you think any other supercharger kti for anything does. They bolt on to the crank pulley. It is a balanced to zero pulley. TI wont have any affect on the balance of the engine. Any time you put something on the crank it will put a load on it but saying that it will destroy main bearings is flat out wrong. Putting a vortec on the car doesn't destroy main bearings does it? This is teh same thing only with a dedicated belt.

[exigent]

You got me on the distence... you are correct... i spaced on that... there is plenty of room to run a belt... Id still be carefull with clearences... for some reson I remember somthing being awfully tight down there... perhaps durring install?

No... bolting extra mass to the crankshaft does roast the mains.... try it and see. Did you notice the duratec has no balence shaft or any kind of gizmoid to keep the crank from happily destroying the bearings? Its internally ballenced of course and VERY VERY prone to a main bearing failure when you change the mass on the dampner like that... Im just trying to point out that just because it works on every v8 known to mand does not mean it will work on the duratec. It hasnt been discussed in a long time but perhaps you can still find it in the archives... main bearing failure with any kind of crankpully mod has been well documented... in fact is was enough of an issue that Ford made a new dampner to further isolate the harmonics.... You are playing with fire... plus... why go dedicated?

[PuckPuck]

umm... no offense here dave...

if it was soo bad then how come people aren't blowing motors left and right with the keane belle unit on a DURATEC motor which has THE SAME F'ING CONCEPT!!!

instead of tryign to downplay people on ever concept that comes out, maybe you should give them a shot... heck you never know, they may just prove you very wrong.....

using your concept, putting a ligthened flywheel would screw up the harmonics and spin a bearing... think about that for a second

[FastCougar]

Bottom line, everything should be balanced as a single unit at the machine shop. But you already knew that right?

DanG had this done with his engine. They balanced the crank, DMD, Flywheel and Clutch as a single unit since that is how it will be acting once it is installed. His engine revs like butta! Smooth and creamy :) Since I didn't ask, I'm not sure how this was done on Dan's engine, but from what I have read, they basically add or remove weight from the counter weights to balance the engine.

[Kinger]

Buckshot's flywheel had little spots where they drilled (not through obviously) to remove metal and balanced the whole assembly that way. Its the way to go but expensive (roughly $500-1000 depending on shop).

[Jagular]

I know that an engine needs to be balanced with the balancer, flywheel, rods, pistons, rings etc. They are done that way so they match, but if you put on a pulley on the crank that is zero balance then you aren't changing the balance. You can ask any machine shop or engine builder that and they will tell you the came thing. If that wasn't possible then you couldn't buy aftermarket pulleys for ANYTHING and bolt them on.

P.S. A machine shop should NEVER drill on the flywheel or flex plate to balance a rotating assembly. The flexplate and flywheel are already balanced when you buy them. The crankshaft counterweights are what need drilled or tungsten put in to make them heavier to balance the assembly. Just FYI for anyone building an engine.

[exigent]

Your comment about ud pullys is EXACTLY what im saying. They may work with other cars but they have been proven time and time again to be a source of bearing failure in our engine.

Puck.... im all over jagular because of the way he is. New concept exactly, hes jumping on the cougar like its a new model mustang and rideing the "oldschool" v8 type bandwagon. Not only that but he has a ansewer to everything... why cant i have a problem with all his "solutions" Jagular and I have had talks in the past and I think we've come to a halfway decent understanding. Im not here flaming a nubie im challenging a bit, someone who is talking the talk, and time has not yet proven if hes walking it...

why should i just congradulate him on his progress and not try to shoot it full of holes? He didnt post to have everyone tell him how great he is... i think he WANTS information like this. If he doesnt then he is more then welcome to ignore me.


You guys are all right when it comes to the ballenceing of the assembly. If the part you add is pre ballenced there is NO need to ballence anything at all. What im saying here is bolting somthing to the !HARMONIC! pully is probably going to lead to main bearing failure. Not because the rotating assembly isnt going to be ballenced... but because it may change the harmonic nature of the dampner. Puck... didnt you install a DMD???? You know thats awefully funny coming from you.... Why did you spend all that money on the upgraded pully again? Do you REALLY think its perfectly fine to bolt somthin to that? As far as keeny belle or whatever I could say the same thing "all kinds of people have UD pullys with NO problem" and id be fully WRONG because there are plenty of documented failures on UD pullys with the duratec. You dont KNOW there havent been problems with the KB SC kits... anymoreso then i "KNOW" a pully bolted to the crankpully will be a problem.


Dammit I may be wrong on this and Im fully prepared to accept that. I admited already about being wrong on the other account... Ill do it every time.... i will NOT stop questioning or commenting on things like this as long as I think what I have to say at least can add a diffrent perspective. I didnt just go "yer a dumbass for trying this... just buy a vortech". Puck do you really want me to be like every other sheep on here and get all warm and gooey about EVERYTHING that comes down the pike? Remember everyone getting all gooey about the "weopon-r" headers??? Im sure you dont even have to search to see what I had to say about THAT. How about the "ceramic" that coated those msds headers... i got my ass chewed for telling marty how $hity his product was coated and looky looky... now everyone knows the truth now that they are all rusted completely out... I can site 100 points like this were I DIDNT just go with the flow and was eventually proven correct. Why do you think nobody really cares for me all that much on here? Dont you think I know that? I dont much care, Im just trying to help people were I can and if they listen then great... Sure... im wrong somtimes too... VERY wrong as you put it... but does that matter realy any more then being "right"? People dont usually listen either way but at least I conversated about the issue... Read my last post before this... I didnt slam him or dismiss his idea at all. I questioned it... i even sumed it up with why go dedicated? I really and truely want to know!

Beleive me im taking it easy on Jagular you dont need to moderate the talks him and I have... I slamed him HARD once already and retracted and im not going to do it again... To be honest i think hes WAY out there... My first impression of him was a VERY good scam artist setting up this board for a BIG take.... But some of the things hes said have made me stop and just question him....i dont KNOW yet... he could be 100% for real and just a bit lacking on some information... or he could be 100% right and im just heckleing him.... but at least it makes him think about it a bit... How in the world does that hurt? He hasnt asked me to lay off and when he does you know I will... I will not be a sheep... i will not just clap my hands when someone says they are making somthing for the cougar... i dont expect anyone to do any diffrent for me either.

Think about all the CRAP people said to me about swaping my trans... trade it in... too expensive.... How many times was I told off or told go buy a manual. You know what im talking about... amung that crap was some glimmer of help and made life a bit easier for me. Some peoples critique actally helped. Dont confuse my questioning of jagular or anyone else for that matter as being an attack... you KNOW thats now how I am puck. If he cant take critisism then he should have never offered to sell these things. Id take it FAR easier on him if he wasnt trying to sell them....

[PuckPuck]

Originally the 3L duratec comes with a harmonic... attached to that harmonic is the pulley.... when you put a 3L in you swap timing covers and most importantly throw the harmonic AND the pulley out.... look around for pics of a taurus 3L and you'll see what i mean by this setup

No one is blowing 3L motors.... why because the Harmonic is balanced and the pulley is zero balance... when you take it off and put your 2.5L Harmonic balancer / pulley combo you get a balanced system again. Bolting something with equivalent weight all the way around will not throw it out of balance. Unless the pulley was lopsided it will work just fine..

the reason why the UD pulleys fail is because they ARE NOT BALANCED... and are a REPLACEMENT for the harmonically balanced pulley.... what jagular is talking about is an add-on to the already balanced harmonic balancer... big difference here....

and my whole point is, instead of jumping down everyone's throat the instance they make a post, let them answer questions in a FRIENDLY NON-ACCUSING MANNER.... that way there you won't possibly scare off or deter someone trying to help the aftermarket out....

[Jagular]

The reason that I'm going with a dedicated pulley for the supercharger is this.
1. The 8-rib belt has more surface area and is less likely to slip at high RPM and when you stab the throttle.
2. With a dedicated pulley I have more contol over blower speed and boost. ( More pulley selection)

I don't mind your remarks and questions, although I do find you a bit forward with your remarks. You are right it does keep me on my toes and keeps me thinking.

I'm in it for the long haul. I'm not going anywhere...

[exigent]

Um... puck...
3L and you'll see what i mean by this setup Dude i have one in my garage on a stand im familiar with it... Its important to remember that the 2.5 dampner is matched to the harmonics of the 2.5 style setup. The 3.0 dampner is match to that particular setup. By attaching to the dampner the way it does... and with what im sure are harmonic diffrences in the dampner to compensate... it works with the 3.0 in taurus FEAD.


No one is blowing 3L motors.... Hold on there.... who has more then 10,000mi on thier 3.0... not only that but most of those probly have aftermarket main bearings... trimetal mains prolly delays it.... who knows? Leo makes it a season no problem with his ud pully... but then again that motor isnt anything close to stock or even built for that matter.... its been bullit proofed.


I know im forward... like i said thats why people dont elevate me to the same level as say you.... If I kissed ass and showed everyone love Id prolly be an admin... Its not like the things I so say are total bunk... and lets face it there arnt but 5-10 people on here that even come close to having done or even SEEN the kind of things ive done/seen with this car. You know i dont bash people to make myself seem superior... hell i dont bash people at all... i give it to them strait and somtimes people cant handle it. Im sorry for being forward... but i dont like dancing around the issue. I didnt jump down his throat at all... read my first post. Yes it was forward... but i didnt attack him... i didnt call him stupid... i didnt question his integrity or inteligence... i questioned his KNOWLEGE about a VERY well documented concearn that he may have not been familiar with.


Im not concearned with the ballence or the weight of the pully. That is all irelivent... im concearned that by bolting ANYTHING to the dampner you will remove the harmonic nature of it. Not only that but what makes you think UD pullys arnt ballenced? Im sure they are... they simply dont have a dampner in them. Your 3.0 example is PURRRFECT for illistrating this. Think of the actual pully as the equiv of the UD pully or... jagulars pully. Now... you have that dampner... its just got the rod running through the center. Im offering that perhaps that 3.0 dampner is designed to take that into account.... and obviously our 2.5 dampner is not. When he bolts to the stock pully he may actually REMOVE the dampening fuction... at the very least it may throw it off. Either way it bears investigation or at LEAST a second thought.

Now I know why he wants the dedicated belt... thats great and makes perfect sense. But now he knows about a potential concearn... its obviously his decision...


You know... im like the LAST guy that jumps down the throat of a new vendor... I dont attack any of these guys. I may exploit thier flaws but WHY NOT!!!?? So maybe that makes them stop selling it... woopty... so they wont be selling us some crap that will break/rustout/blowup the engine... did we really loose anything?

Im STILL waiting to hear about the streetflight kit and whether or not they have done anything to combat the rev limiter fuel cut.... Read THAT post and see how people ripped me a new one for even THINKING that it was SF's fault! Im sick and tired of all the sheep blindly following thier chosen leader and making blind choices. How many engines have to blow ? How much money must be wasted before its considered okay to ask a question. James poped up and called ford rings JUNK even though in my 3 years here ive NEVER heard of anyone toasting a ring unless they did somthing to CLEARLY cause it. He can do that but when I call street flight out on the rev limiter IM the a$$hole... does that make sense?

Puck.. i dont know why you fell all the suden that im with the crowd that slams vendors but I really dont get it... im doing what ive always done. 90% of people dont have the knowlege to even ASK the questions I ask... so what then... we just let people blindly buy garbage again and again until they figure it out??? Just so we dont piss off vendors? You know as well as I do that half of the things sold for the cougar can be had at a substantial discount of most online prices because people are MAKING MONEY ON SELLING THINGS THEY HAVE OTHER PEOPLE MAKE! whats wrong with that? Nothing. Im all for capitolism and all that ... but these vendors ARE going to get my questions and the rest of the people around here are at least going to see the vendor for what they really are. Because the vendor is in the buisness of making money off us opens them up to imediate scrutiny... NOT flaming... but scrutiny.

Ive noticed somthing in my time here... go search for posts by me... notice how many threads DIE after I say somthing. Its not that Im trying to get the last word its that usually nobody has anything to say beyond what ive said. You could argue that Ive just pissed everyone off but then why wouldnt they chime back in? Its usually because they no longer have anything to say...

Im done poluteing this thread with nonsense... ive made my point(s... now.) Jagular... I really want to see you succede in what you are trying. I know it doesnt always seem that way but I do.

[PuckPuck]

as far as as know... we have over 2 dozen 3l motors running around... some with as much as 25K miles on them (contours)... one of which I know of has ZERO, ZILTCH, NADA bottom end treatment and over 15K miles on it....

you should seriously visit CEG a little more often, you will amaze yourself with the 3L Turbo charged cars running STOCK (yes i said STOCK) internals without problems....

Although I respect Leo and what he is doing, you can't take what he does and convert it to the street. Many reasons why, one of which is 8000+rpm. leo's engine is VERY different than what we are running, and unfortunately until you get that into your thoughts you just won't understand that one does not need to spend 15000$+ into an engine to make 300hp. Kinger is doing it with just Clevitte77 rod bearings and notthing else... Warmonger is doing it with completely stock internals... heck as far as I know very few people have opted to upgrade rod/pistons and NO ONE has main bearing upgrades... why because no aftermarket company makes them and no one is going to spend the ridiculous dollars on the SHO bearings....

Anyhow the harmonics from the 3L pulley so close to the 2.5L pulley that one need not worry. in fact the cranks and rods are identical, the only difference is the larger pistons.

as for you slamming people... notice how i "nicely" asked him how far the pulley sticks out. I didn't need to slam him, i just asked a nice honest question. obviously my intents were to ensure he didn't go out and get a pulley made that won't fit (slight oversight for some people). Now I didn't need to slam him. Since I knew it was an add-on pulley I knew it wasn't going to change harmonics like the UD pulleys do. That's called being nice. I do it for a few reasons. 1. I can gain respect. 2. I don't need to be in a heated match. 3. I don't need to slam a person so they can build a defense before responding, I ask with a blind eye, expecting a proper response.

The more respect you have the more people will listen. if all you do is slam, eventually people will just ignore, however if you chime in with a knowledgeable post, and explain it in a fruitful manner people will listen, before it's too late.

Treat others how you would like to be treated. Maybe it's the canadian in me, maybe i'm just a nice guy, either case I have no need to slam people every post.

[Jagular]

I have a set of Federal Mogel 3/4 groove race main bearings for 2.5/3.0L right here in front of me. I also coated them.

[Kinger]

Originally posted by: PuckPuck[ Kinger is doing it with just Clevitte77 rod bearings and notthing else...

And federal mogul mains :) That's it for bottom end mods, top end is stock 3L dual port heads with SVT cams.

[arskiracer]

Any update on the kit Jagular?

[Alan]

seriously...

[Jagular]

Not on the supercharger kit, No. I haven't worked on it. I've been working on the Turbo kit. I have the chip from Diablo sport. I have the injectors, MAF sensor, I just got the exhaust housing here about a month ago and have been building the headers as of late.

[Iceotron]

any ETA on when the first of the 2 will be released? Also are you getting to the point where you can pretty accuratly guesstimate the price/hp/trq of the kits?

[arskiracer]

Yeah. Any tq/hp guesses? If the kit ends up producing a good deal of torque early in the rpm's and it proves to be a reliable system, I'll be in the market for one. Do you know the max boost the compressor is capable of producing efficiently?

[Jagular]

Well, I have a few answers for you. If all goes well I hope to be done with the turbo within 2-3 weeks. I can give you a SWAG of the horsepower. (Scientific Wild Ass Guess). About 250-275 at the wheels. Thats pretty close. Could be more could be less. I won't know untill its on the car and tested. With this turbo the kit should be good to 15-18 lbs of boost efficiently. It's a larger turbo than is normally used so lower boost levels cn be used to obtain the same amount of power. (4-5 lbs) Thats volume versus pressure for ya. The reason it take so long to do anything is ONE I have a fyull time job and TWO I also have to work on my fathers race car a lot as well. Right now we ar busting butt on it to get it done. Scott Armish from AEM ni California will be flying in on Satyurday the 13th to help us get the thing running and tuned this weekend. This new AEM processor is the nicest aftermarket fuel injection system that I have worked with yet. The kti will be about 3000 with air to air and 3250 with water to air. Thats all for now.

T.J.

[arskiracer]

What about for the supercharger kit...

Did you decide to go with a roots system?

Any tq/hp guesses? If the kit ends up producing a good deal of torque early in the rpm's and it proves to be a reliable system, I'll be in the market for one. Do you know the max boost the compressor is capable of producing efficiently?