What would you have to do to make the cougar accept a 100 shot?

[CougarBalla2k5]

Obviously I wouldn't use it all the time but, what kind of new internals would the cougar need to not go BOOM?

[PuckPuck]

From what I understand some people are already running 100 shot on stock internals...

to be safe however I would seriously look into getting at least the Clevite77 rod bearings and a dual mode damper....

besides that make sure you have a rev limiter on the N2O which kicks in 250rpm before the fuel cutoff, and all your other n2o safety devices, as well as ensuring you are dumping adequate fuel and you should be good...

mind you constantly dumping a 100 shot of n2o into your engine will eventually ruin it, but the occasional shot shouldn't hurt

[pgtatx]

Use of race gas and retarding the ignition timing will be a necessity...

If you don't run race gas, then you'll need to retard ignition timing even more.

Also, you'll want a reall small gap on some copper plugs that are 2 steps colder. Gap of like .030-.035" should be good.

[FastCougar]

Originally posted by: pgtatx
Use of race gas and retarding the ignition timing will be a necessity...Not really ... a 100 shot would only require about 2 degrees of retard and premium fuel should suffice (92+ octane).

Originally posted by: pgtatx
If you don't run race gas, then you'll need to retard ignition timing even more.Not really ... you want to run as much timing advance as possible without pinging ... this type of blanket statement is good at CYA, but not for optimal performance.

Originally posted by: pgtatx
Also, you'll want a reall small gap on some copper plugs that are 2 steps colder. Gap of like .030-.035" should be good.That is very true ... spark blowout will occur otherwise and once the fuel/oxigen rich mixture hits the pre-cats/cat, it will cause the car to backfire. However, you will get some very ****ty MPG when driving without the nitrous. Since the nitrous is only run for short burst seldomly, I would run normal plugs at stock gap when the nitrous bottle is empty. Just make 100% sure that you have the proper plugs in when running the nitrous.

[pgtatx]

I was told on a 75shot to retard ignition timing 2-4 degrees on 92 octane gas, and about half that on race gas (like 105+ octane gas)...


I only run a 55 shot on 93 octane gas so all is well with no ignition retard...(so far ;))

[CougarBalla2k5]

I'm really just wondering because as you all probably know, I'm trying to get as quick as possible with as much simplicity as possible....I figure Nitrous is the best way to help out on the track. Do you guys happen to know any round-about guess on how many 1/10ths a certain shot will lower your time?? On an ATX of course ;), damn HP Robber.

Please don't yell at me Fett

[FastCougar]

Originally posted by: pgtatx
I was told on a 75shot to retard ignition timing 2-4 degrees on 92 octane gas, and about half that on race gas (like 105+ octane gas)...


I only run a 55 shot on 93 octane gas so all is well with no ignition retard...(so far ;))I ran my ZEX kit with no retard, two steps colder and 93 octane and set to the maximum 75 shot and never had a single ping :) As much as people like to use "Rule of thumb" examples, the best for performance must be "dialed-in" where your tuning uses the lest amount of retarding as possible without causing pinging/detonation. Now, for playing it safe, as most casual nitrous users should, this rule-of-thumb is a very safe way of ensuring that you will not have any problems.

[pgtatx]

Since most people can't rebuild their own engine, nor do they have the money too, I usually recomment the rule of thumb methods.

People would rather lose 10hp then lose $2500...

If I ran my 75shot jets I wouldn't run a retard either, however I also don't use it often. Some people use it all the time, so just having the extra degree of retard will be 1 less chance of going BOOM...

BTW trevor, I think my arm is larger than your baby... ;)

[Jagular]

Here is what most of the nitrous manufacurers say about timing and octane. retard the timing 2.5-3 degrees for premium pump gas and 2 dergees for race gas, PER 50 hp. So with a 100 shot on pump gas you'd need 5-6 degrees timing retard. You won't lose that much power from that, altough if you run a good octane booster that will put you in the 100+octane rating and retard the timing 4 degrees then you will typically make 5-10 mroe HP. The HP settings from the nitrous companies are estimates and are often low. if you use the high octane and 4 degrees of retard you'd probably see right at 100 wheel HP. i've tuned a LOT of nitrous cars from 25-800HP of nitrous and those rules have never steered me wrong.

[CougarBalla2k5]

I thought those HP ratings from the "shots" are crank HP numbers??? That is the amount that actually reaches the wheels??

[mindtrip1016]

Originally posted by: CougarBalla2k5
I thought those HP ratings from the "shots" are crank HP numbers??? That is the amount that actually reaches the wheels??


With proper tuning. I have seen local guys put in 75 hp jets and make almost 90 hp after dyno tuning.

[CougarBalla2k5]

If I am completely stock can dyno tuning help?? lol

[DanG]

Of course, but you would need to have something to adjust- S-AFC, E-manage, or a custom chip setup based on your mods by FordChips. Those options go from least to most expensive, and, as there's no easy hp for no money, S-AFCs start at about $290 on Ebay. E-manages require a laptop, several separate harnesses, and are complicated to hook up to the Duratec- Not something I would recommend for the Weekend Gearhead.

Your 2001 will need a wet system, and any wet system works in principle, but is not immediately optimized for your setup. Therefore, tuning will realize more of a benefit from the same amount of nitrous.

I would say the internals would be plenty fine on a 75 shot. 100 shot is pushing it. Also with an ATX, you'd need a cooler at the very least to keep its longevity. That shot is going to send the tranny temperatures skyrocketing.

[CougarBalla2k5]

Tranny cooler? So, an ATX can more easily take a bigger shot than the MTX?

[DanG]

No- The MTX is basically gear to gear meshing in every gear. ATXs have slip built in, and that slip causes wear and friction, which causes heat. The torque converter won't lock up (CD4Es have locking TCs, right?!) until very high speed, so there is an amount of slip and compressing (heating) of the trans fluid as the converter operates.

ATXs are, intrinsic by design, more fragile than MTXs. But the up-side is you don't have to shift all the time.

[Jagular]

If the guy knows what he is doing with burning a chip then he will be able to adjust the lock up on the converter and also the shift firmness and the shift points...

[FastCougar]

Originally posted by: DanG
Of course, but you would need to have something to adjust- S-AFC, E-manage, or a custom chip setup based on your mods by FordChips. Those options go from least to most expensive, and, as there's no easy hp for no money, S-AFCs start at about $290 on Ebay. E-manages require a laptop, several separate harnesses, and are complicated to hook up to the Duratec- Not something I would recommend for the Weekend Gearhead.

Your 2001 will need a wet system, and any wet system works in principle, but is not immediately optimized for your setup. Therefore, tuning will realize more of a benefit from the same amount of nitrous.

I would say the internals would be plenty fine on a 75 shot. 100 shot is pushing it. Also with an ATX, you'd need a cooler at the very least to keep its longevity. That shot is going to send the tranny temperatures skyrocketing.Thanks for putting this better than I could. I am not disagreeing with anyone on the "rule of thumb", but I am saying is that for optimal performance, you require a tune. Start off with the rule of thumb, then tune using a dyno with EGT & A/F readouts and you will be sitting pretty.

If you don't want to tune, be it for money or time, take the proper precautions so that if you go lean for a split second, it doesn't detonate. Like Jagular pointed out:
retard the timing 2.5-3 degrees for premium pump gas and 2 dergees for race gas, PER 50 hp.Now, keep in mind that if you run nitrous at WOT, which is the only time you should be running it, on the stock program, WOT is running of fuel maps that are very rich. That being said, you have some built-in safety and thus why you don't have to retard the timing with the ZEX dry kit ... because even though the FPR is increasing pressure and thus dumping more fuel, it was running rich before that. Running rich will take the place of pulling timing in this instance because the extra fuel will cool the charge enough that the excess pressure will not cause detonation. Remember, it's much better to run rich than lean. So, this is my rule of thumb:

"Better to tune it for performance and if you can't, better to run rich than lean."

Now, back to what is healthy for the car. If you are doing nothing to the engine but strapping on nitrous, I suggest nothing larger than a 75 shot, which can be run without timing retard if you follow these simple rules.

1) run 1-2 step colder spark plugs, gapped .030"-.040" (largest gap that doesn't cause backfire/spark blowout)
2) run 92+ octane at all times
3) never run for more than 15 consecutive seconds

[CougarBalla2k5]

And If I got the 75 shot then got Dyno tuned it would produce even more than 75? BTW where/how can I get dyno tuned/tested??

[Kaiser]

ATS Performance
Two Notch Road
Columbia 29223
Tel. 803-786-7766



Bond's Career Center
505 North Main Street
Greer, 29650
Tel. 864-848-2492
Website: http://www.greenville.k12.sc.us/foothill/

Gibson Performance Solutions
260 Bay Pines Road
Beaufort, 29906
Tel. 843-846-6740



Power Zone Performance
5638 Craig Rd.
Charleston 29406
Tel. 843-744-1200

Pro-Dyno
(mobile dyno)
8495 Vance Baker Rd.
Fort Mill, 29715
Tel. 704-651-6232



Versuch Racing
1612 Main Street
Anderson 29624
Tel. 864-222-9692

[CougarBalla2k5]

Do I have to call and get an appointment to do dyno at one of those places?

[FastCougar]

Originally posted by: CougarBalla2k5
Do I have to call and get an appointment to do dyno at one of those places?<vent>How are you coming up with these questions? Oh yeah, that's right, you have a brain ... no offense, but USE IT! Jesus, I have never seen someone ask so many damn questions. Go out on a ledge, take a chance and think for yourself with common sense stuff like this. How the hell should we know if they have dyno time available? We don't!

As for the dyno question ... he found that information directly from DynoJet's website (or the like) ... it just takes a little effort on your part.</vent>

[gamiller]

Originally posted by: CougarBalla2k5
Do I have to call and get an appointment to do dyno at one of those places?

not necessarily, but you won't know if you don't talk to them...

[MeanKat]

yea unlike others I will be cool headed and say just give them a call and see what they say, it is always best to do so specially if you are going to end up making a lengthy drive....