so it doesn't run anymore. turn the key and nothing.

[uRiDiAN]

ok, so, i went to go put a couple more miles on the car before i headed out for the night, but alas, i turned the key and nothing happened.

now, mind you, it ran earlier in the day.

here's the story... i checked out my battery leads, and it turned out the positive lead was loose, so i reconnected it nice and securely, and tried again... nothing. my father, when he stalled it, just went nuts with the key in the ignition trying to start it again, "on>start>on>start>on>start>on>start>on>start..." you get the point. so i wondered if he coulda confused PATS. i grabbed the other key, and still no go. the PATS light, when the key is turned to on, illuminates solid for 3 seconds, then goes out, which, according to the Tech CD is AOK. everything else in the car works, headlights, flashers, sound system, etc. i can also hear the fuel pump priming.

i've busted out the multimeter to check grounds, battery voltage, etc, but i don't REALLY know what i should be testing. battery voltage is 12V on the dot, and i've checked continuity between the ground terminal on the battery and the engine, and that's kosher. checked voltage between the starter (where the large battery cable is bolted to it) and the ground terminal on the battery and that's 12V, too. those two voltages drop to about 11.8V when i try and start it.

anyone have any ideas? i'm at a loss.

i don't have a second person here to help me with the starting system pinpoint tests on the tech CD, but if anyone could shed any light, that would be wonderful.

[FastCougar]

Disconnect all connections to the starting system

1) The battery ground
2) The battery power
3) The starter ground
4) The starter power

and then reconnect everything back in the opposite order making sure that all connections are solid.

[FastCougar]

It sounds to me like either your starter is not grounded or fried. Like I said, double check all connections between the battery and the starter and also check the starter ground. I personally find it better to disconnect everything and start from square one to ensure that nothing was overlooked in instances like this. Good Luck!

[overfiend]

i do know rappidly turning the key like that has *something* to do with the keyless entry system programming, like tunning a univeral remote. but if you dont have keyless...nevermind

[DanG]

I once confused the PATS system completely by pressing the hood sensor up and down quickly, about 10 times. The siren went off, and it WOULDN'T SHUT OFF. Had to disconnect the battery. Once I reconnected, all was well.

But I agree with Trevor. Sounds like the starter's not getting power, or if it is, it's fried internally.

[PuckPuck]

have you checked your clutch switch?

it's kinda hard to find but it's up there on the clutch pedal bracket... just a small switch with 2 wires... when you depress the clutch it closes the circuit allowing the starter's relay to get it's negative ground (gee how do i know this stuff :P)

Another way to check is to take apart your engine bay fuse box... locate the starter relay. Should have 1 constant power, 1 switched power, 1 switched ground (coming from clutch pedal) and the starter lead wire. When you turn the key the switched ground should get continuity with a common ground. Also check to ensure the switched power and constant power still work. If all that works, check the starter lead to see if it's getting it's power (with relay installed of course). If all is good still, your starter lead diode may be fried, or the starter itself.

btw: the clutch pedal switch wire, comes from the EEC, and this is the wire that the eec allows ground to go on, ONLY when pats is AOK. unfortunately if PATS is not AOK you will not get spark either which is internally controlled by the eec.

[Blackcoog]

I had a similar problem on mine when I installed. I pulled the starter off and had it checked. It was fine and when I put it back in it started. Must have been a connection problem. :confused:

[uRiDiAN]

ok, here are my findings... i can't make too much sense of them just yet:

http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/attachments/starter_relay.jpg

ok, here goes. with the key out i get 12V outta pin 30, nothing else, no voltage, no continuity from any other pins

with the key in the start position, i still get 12V outta pin 30, i get 12V outta pin 86, but nothing else. no 12V outta pin 87, and no continuity with common ground on pin 85 (red multimeter lead on the pin, black lead on negative battery terminal, both pins). BUT... when i swap the multimeter leads, put black on the pins and red on the negative battery terminal, i get continuity from pins 30 and 87, and still nothing from 85 or 87. i don't know WHAT that means.

now, i tried the FSM pinpoint test on the clutch switch, and i couldn't get ANY resistance readings either way, except my auto ranging multimeter switches through all the ranges from .0 mV and ends on 0.00 kV. but when i did a continuity test on the two pins in the switch and pressed the switch in, i got continuity, so i assume that means the clutch switch is fine.

when i get to the next pinpoint test, it's diode to ground, and i get no voltage from the left pin hole (when you're standing outside the driver's side). it then says to test resistance from the right pin hole to the bottom right pin hole for the ignition switch plug under the dash. my multimeter leads aren't nearly long enough for that.

now, given that information, does it sound like my ignition switch may have **** the bed?

[uRiDiAN]

and, just for ****s and giggles, i went into diagnostic mode to check for DTCs, and came up with 9359, and according to a FAQ here on the board, that mean something like Ignition run/ACC circuit failure. can someone fill me in on that?

(*edit, typo*)

[mcon99]

sounds like either a bonked fuse, bad relay, failed key switch? You can test the ignition switch if you hotwire it under the dash. look at the switch wires on the ford tech cd, it is easy (of course you key would still have to be at least in the ignition for PATS)

if you haven't tried hitting the starter with a hammer a few time, do that also. My trucks starter was going and once in a while it would not engage without a slap. then it completely died :)

[uRiDiAN]

ok, so at one point today i was almost convinced that it was ignition switch, but i decided to try and jump the clutch pedal switch with some solid core wire. at that point i at least got my ground from the relay socket. so i popped the relay back in a tried at the relay clicked, but still nothing from the starter.

to try and rule out faulty relay, i jumped the 12V (pin 3 on the relay, pin 30 on the diagram above) constant to pin 5 (the pin the 12V ends up at, pin 87 on the diagram above) and still nothing from the starter. i then ran a wire from the positive battery terminal to pin 5 to rule out anything related to the ignition switch as well, and still nothing.

so i'm almost positive it's my starter now. i'll bang on it with a hammer tomorrow. it'll be fun! :)

[EricF]

Originally posted by: DanG
I once confused the PATS system completely by pressing the hood sensor up and down quickly, about 10 times. The siren went off, and it WOULDN'T SHUT OFF.

Dan actually I just read up on this since its something I've played with before..
by pressing it in about 5 times I think will put the security system into a self test mode of some sort.


Sounds like the started is dead... although If your not hearing anything, maybe the solinoid for the starter
is whats bad.

[uRiDiAN]

ok, so i feel like a moron.

i had my father wiggle the starter wires to check for a busted battery cable or something, and i got intermittent starter. doubled checked again and the solenoid wire was loose. i could've SWORN it was tight, but i guess i missed it. starts up every time now.

[EricF]

Hey I was close! ;) I said Solenoid.. can I get a ribbon :)
good job, have fun dood.

[uRiDiAN]

you were close... as was everyone else. heh... i coulda SWORN i doublechecked it. oh well... i'll give you a cookie next time i see you. :)

but, i'm not having all too much fun just yet. :mad: (http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=74254)

[ssix]

Well I am a day late and a dollar short, but I was going to tell you to push start the car dump the clutch and see if it started, that would have told you if it was the starter. Glad you got it fixed.

[uRiDiAN]

for the record, we did pop start it, so i knew it was something starter, i guess i just spaced. heh.