reliable superchargers??

[VHull03]

i just remember hearing a lot awhile back about how the s/c's were 100% failures. just wondering if anythings changed since then? if they have, can someone hook me up with a site that i can get a good one? thanks

[mcon99]

Originally posted by: VHull03
i just remember hearing a lot awhile back about how the s/c's were 100% failures. just wondering if anythings changed since then? if they have, can someone hook me up with a site that i can get a good one? thanks

definitly click here (http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/search.cfm) and enter the magic word Vortech :slap:

[pgtatx]

The superchargers themselves were fine. The Driveshaft was the screwy thing. It is since been fixed by Vortech.

Superchargers can last 50K or 100K...ya never know.

[JediCougar]

While the knowledgeable people here are answering an S/C question, I figure I'd pop in one of my own: I seem to recall reading somewhere that superchargers put a large strain on the engine in order to make their power. Does a supercharger decrease engine life? Or does the supercharger just cease working after '50K or 100K' because of problems with the unit itself?

Before mcon99 jumps down my throat, I have run a search on this, and didn't find much.

[PuckPuck]

99% of the mods that add power will reduce longevitivity...

put it this way to make more power you end up putting more stress on the engine by making bigger explosions in the combustion chamber... basically you are working the engine harder than stock, and over a long long long time it will take it's toll... this is true for nearly all power adders (some actually help in power and longetivity but they are rare)

[AtomicInternet]

I know I answered this but the search feature failed me!

I've got almost 5,000 miles on mine and no problems yet. I agree with Puck though, anything non-stock reduces longevity, so I'll go 180,000 miles instead of 200,000 miles. Honestly, I'd worry more about your transmission putting up with all that extra power before you worry about your engine.

[JediCougar]

Thanks, AtomicInternet. Appreciate the answer!

[Madcat]

Atomic, thanks for the answers too, and everyone else, cuz this is an alternate to a Turbo as well, and it helps when people see things posted, since it seems like everyone is about the Turbo or 3.0 now.

[AtomicInternet]

I got the supercharger because it was the cheapest option, easiest to install (myself) and I'm not looking to set any records. Of the 252HP it generates, I can't even get it all to the ground. The Turbo is definately the more powerful option (especially if you combine it with a 3.0) but you have to upgrade alot to get it all to the ground. If you're like me, and just looking for a little more power (and the cool F/I sound), then the S/C is the way to go.

[Hamm23]

where can the vortech s/c be purchased at and how much is it? I want some big power but i am afraid of blowing my engine up

[naynay]

Honestly the Itsturbo kit will be the cheapest...at the moment. $3800 for the kit....$900(give or take a $100) for the labor. S/c's are good but take power to make power...turbos do not, you just have to get over the turbo lag (IF you get any). Much more opportunity to tune the turbo also. Just my 2 cents worth.

[arskiracer]

I decided to go with the Vortech supercharger because I don't like waiting for my power to kick in. I've only driven completely stock turbo cars - so I don't know how early a finely tuned turbo would kick in, but as for the ones I drove, I didn't like the lag at all. I also like the fact that you can drive the hell out of a supercharger and not worry about burning it up like a turbo. I burned up a stock talon turbo a couple years ago. I've put over 5,000 miles on my vortech without a single problem.

[naynay]

Hamm23.....go Turbo if you want big HP's!! Just to be truethfull....the turbo will last longer than your motor(same with s/c's). Yes i here about "stock" turbos going out. Well...those are "stock" turbos...no T3 Garrets!! If you want no lag then you research the type of turbo you want! S/c's will never compare to turbos fellas....only because of the endless amount of tuning and upgrading you can do to the turbo!! What are you going to do with a s/c??? Ummm...notta! Dont get me wrong....i like s/c's to, but it just make since to go turbo for MANY different reasons. Thanks for listening!!:biggrin:

[Faboo]

Originally posted by: naynay
S/c's will never compare to turbos fellas....only because of the endless amount of tuning and upgrading you can do to the turbo!! What are you going to do with a s/c??? Ummm...notta! Dont get me wrong....i like s/c's to, but it just make since to go turbo for MANY different reasons. Thanks for listening!!:biggrin:

hmmmmm...cant upgrade a S/C eh??? :rolleyes:i guess these (http://www.clubgp.com/cgi-asp/qtrmile.asp?txtfunc=&page=1) 32 Grand prix's that are running 12's and under are stock..... :banghead: nope

PnP the blower...smaller pullies...better IC...etc

I won't say that they are easier to upgrade than turbo's, but i dont think u should say they will never compare........

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: arskiracer
1. I decided to go with the Vortech supercharger because I don't like waiting for my power to kick in.
2. I've only driven completely stock turbo cars - so I don't know how early a finely tuned turbo would kick in, but as for the ones I drove, I didn't like the lag at all.
3. I also like the fact that you can drive the hell out of a supercharger and not worry about burning it up like a turbo. I burned up a stock talon turbo a couple years ago. I've put over 5,000 miles on my vortech without a single problem.
1. That does not make any sense! A turbo will create power much sooner then a centrifugal supercharger since it is exhaust dependant not rpm dependant. (see graph below)

2. Most, if not all, stock turbo cars have very small turbos that boost up almost instantaneously. Thus you get full boost at very low rpms verses a cent S/C that does not reach full boost until redline or higher!

3. Burn up a turbo? Please elaborate here! No I insist after a comment like that.
Are you saying you drove the car as hard as you could and then intentionally (of your own doing) turned the engine off immediately afterwards without the use of a simple device such as a Turbo Timer. Then did this repetitively on a daily basis for months. ???
If so, who's fault is that??? If not then explain exactly what you mean by that "loaded" statement...

That Turbo vs S/C graph - See how the turbo makes boost immediately (I.E. SEE THE CURVES!)
Notice how only when the S/C reaches full boost (6800rpm) does it match the turbo's HP output. Never the TQ output!

http://www.geocities.com/demonsvt/SCvsTurbo.txt

Looking at that there really is NO comparing the 2 from a power stand point. The turbo just crushes the S/C in all areas. An "average" of +50 FWHP and +60 FWTQ through the main power curve! Just goes to show you "peak" numbers mean very little compared to the power curve!

Also you can tell by the curves that a slightly larger turbo would not flatline in power at 6000rpm. (or perhaps coaxing 2-3 more psi out of this particular T28 - I.E. its cfm limit BTW)

[Kinger]

I don't think anyone doubts the TC will offer more power, buts its also almost twice as much as the SC, which plays a big role with the question "is it worth it?"

[arskiracer]

First of all, you don't need to get all pissy at me for trying to give my personal opinion about the supercharger vs. the turbo. The research I've done in the past suggests that turbos take time to spool up because you have to wait for the exhaust pressure to build up before you can get any good power. The research about the supercharger told me that since superchargers run directly off the engine, the rpm's are there instantly. I can't give you technical data here because I don't know that much about why all this happens, I just know what the majority of the people I've talked to have told me. I don't know where you got that chart, but I'm not going to believe some guy that I've never talked to before with some picture that I have no idea what the sources are. I don't know anything about stock turbos, but I do know that I burned up one of my friends turbos off a 94 Talon in about an hour. The turbo melted and failed while I was driving it, I didn't shut it off. Nothing you can tell me about why turbos don't melt will change my view about this because I have first hand experience about it happening. Also, this turbo did NOT boost up immediatly. I watched the boost gauge and I saw a little boost off the line, but hardly felt anything until around 3k or so. I never said anything about superchargers producing more over all power and I know turbos produce more torque. I even told you that I don't know much about turbos and you still gave me crap about all this. I said I only know what I've driven. I didn't like that turbo car at all. After the addition of the supercharger on my car, I can notice A LOT of power off the line and my car isn't even running close to it's full potential yet. You can give me all the charts and numbers you want, but It's not going to take the place of my personal experience. I am wrong about a lot of things and I quite possibly may be wrong about my statements based on my past research about turbo lag and such, but I am just trying to voice my opinion to help out this guy, so rather than getting on here and down talking all my statements, why don't you just give your own statements and leave quitely.

[Clutch]

Try not to get offended by Demon, He may be short with people and jump at you, but he is very knowledgeable.

[95Mike]

I agree. Although Demon can be rough, his is right about 99% of the time. The other 1% usually pertains to a situation where the resolution is based on personal opinion.

Anyways, I have the vortech on my svt and I will tell you right now that the real power doesn't come on untill 4k. It then builds untill the end of the rpms so around the town, the car will feel only a tiny bit quicker than stock. However, when in a race the rpms will stay high and the turbo's advantage will not be as great. I have yet to see a 1/4 mile run with a turbo, but I'm guessing it won't be too signifigantly faster than a supercharged svt with the same whp. Hell, traction is an issue already so launching the turbo will probably be harder. That being said, in the hands of the right driver and a limited slip, the turbo will be very fast.

If you got the cash get the turbo, because it is the better choice. If not, the supercharger will not dissapoint you.

[arskiracer]

I'm not trying to argue anymore with this question, I really want to know... Why aren't turbos used extensively in drag racing like superchargers? It seems like people only put turbos on small engine cars and usually superchargers on larger engine cars. Why and is this correct?

[naynay]

Originally posted by: arskiracer
I'm not trying to argue anymore with this question, I really want to know... Why aren't turbos used extensively in drag racing like superchargers? It seems like people only put turbos on small engine cars and usually superchargers on larger engine cars. Why and is this correct?


Thats completely untrue!! People have been boosting Mustangs and Camaros for years. Carson just finished a twin turbo 4.6L Mustang GT!! They are out there man...just gotta look!

[AtomicInternet]

The answer to your question is this:

Supercharger involves some "drag" on the engine since it gets power from the crank, which would normally be giving that power to the drivetrain.

Turbo gets it's power from normally wasted exhaust gases. You're using power that normally just goes out the pipe and recycling it into a usable form of energy.

As a result, the Turbo will always win (assuming they are both setup optimally). However, as we all know, running the required exhaust ducting and possibly a required oil timer (to keep the turbo from burning out) is much more expensive than a supercharger install, which only requires rerouting of the belt, and with some kits (like the Cougars) a jackshaft. Superchargers are also considered more reliable since they don't deal with the enormous heat generated on a turbo (answers your question about the dragsters). The dragsters exhaust is so hot and huge in volume, that a turbo would have a hard time dealing with it, so a supercharger is often chosen for that application.

For our applications (assuming nobody is a pro dragster) you can go either way. Make your choice and be happy with it, but realize others will have different opinions. Even though they sound like they are attacking, they're just passionate about their opinion. If you cut through the ego you can find useful information.

Another thing to consider before you go with your choice is the time and cost, and eventual wear on your engine. I happened to have a big bonus at work, otherwise I'd still be stock. I wasn't willing to go into debt for it. I also realize that my car won't last as long, but I'm of the opinion that a car should live strong and short rather than weak and long.

</rant>

[naynay]

(automic Internet) Hey man...put that poor cat in your garage!!!!:confused:

[MustangLX757]

Turbos ARE used in drag racing.

Look at the cars that run in Pro 5.0.

There are Mustang's in that class with 347ci V-8s and a single turbo generating 1,800hp.

MustangLX757

[Faboo]

Originally posted by: MustangLX757
Turbos ARE used in drag racing.

Look at the cars that run in Pro 5.0.

There are Mustang's in that class with 347ci V-8s and a single turbo generating 1,800hp.

MustangLX757

I dont know what class of dragster i am speaking of....but most of the ones i see (~70%) have blowers on them.

[AtomicInternet]

(automic Internet) Hey man...put that poor cat in your garage!!!!
hehe, yeah we had a freak ice storm and I refused to start it till it got warm again. Fortunately, it did get warmer and I treated it to some AutoX (http://atomicinternet.homeip.net/newmcneco/photos.asp) :evil:

Is this the famous person I met at Cougarfest? :confused:

[naynay]

Famous?? Who??

[Knibbs]

im reading all this talk about turbos and super chargers. at first i wanted to do a 3.0 , but after talking about reliablilty . i thought against it.. beacuase i have only heard of a few people not having problems with that swap. as for the sc i had never thought about it till lately when i find that i wish my car was a little faster and after talking to pgatx about the vortec. he really changed my mind about a supercharger. i want one for speed and looks for shows cuz im not sure if to many people know me but my car is mainly a show car and a weekend fun car. Now mind you i do most of the work on my car myslef and after hearing about brads install of the vortec and hearing some of the testimonials of people who have them i want to go the sc route. the turbo for our cars is not fully tested in my opionion and the people that have them so far that i know about have problems. yes i understand that after market stuff will have problems.. but when your blowing engines after having the manufacutor who made the kit install the kit and still have some problems im a little leary about it. now vortec on the other hand is a known company . they back there stuff . and i have read that sc last longer on the whole as opposed to turbos. dont get me wrong i love turbos with the vvrrrrrrr rpish sound of the blow off valve. but i seriously think that for me using my car for travel and show then im going with a supercharger. thanks for you time and help in this forum.. ill probobly be back soon with more questions and viewpoints