Laptop ecu/m Intergration

[miknne]

I need to know if anyone has win 2k software for this ??
I dont want a "chip"
I wanna "do it myself"
..I've never intergraded a laptop for street use ..I've used one to replace the ecm/u on strip builds ..etc
Thanks,
Mik

[DemonSVT]

Well for starters you would need a self programmable chip.
The software by itself would be worthless.

Currently there is nothing available for our PCM that does this. That should change in the future. :biggrin:

Food for thought.
This type of ability would make destroying the engine literally 1 keystroke away! I would not recommend this to 99% of the enthusiasts out there. (no normal folks at all!) It will not be even remotely plug and play.

Try several hundred variables, scalars, multipliers, etc. If you don't have a strong understanding of PCM programming & what effects what and causes & effect you WILL be lost! No lie! For instance just changing 1 little multiplier could effect 20-30 other settings. Do you know which ones??? Do you know which way to tune them? Is 1 a lot or .1 or .01 or does this multiplier work backwards of the rest?
There are over 6 different base table just for spark advance. How do they relate to each other? How does the PCM utilize them? Changing what one can damage the engine? How does the knock sensor come into play?

I could go on & on.

Yes self tuning sounds great, but the pitfalls of such are immense and the results can be costly by being only that 1 keystroke off.

[slockin]

Hopefully, sctunner.net (http://www.sctuner.net/) or eec-tuner.com (http://www.eec-tuner.xom/) will be releasing one for the cougar soon. :banana:

Demon is 110% right, this isn't a toy to play with. It's a really damn good way to instantly turn your engine into a grenade. Have a pro dyno tune your car with it. It's a little cheaper than a new engine.

-Nick

[miknne]

well I understand all of that..
I've been a Mechanic for the last 12yrs.. and My family Is full of professional machinists/engine builders..
can't I just flash the "chip" I have and reprogram it (If I have the software)....
(I've done that Before for our race cars..and installed stock info in customers cars)
I've worked at a gmc/olds/mazda dealership and I could do that with a techII ...
Let me know When the software is available..
Thanks,
mik

[lucky]

You CAN easily have a pc hooked to your ecu!! Ive done it and so has many others that i know. If you have been a mechanic for that long then you could do it. But i recommend having a computer "nerd" for a pal. The bad thing is ounce you do the changes like timing or anything else it will only work if you leave the pc hooked up. The ecu's are programmed to go back to original settings ounce the pc is removed. But they are touchy, dont mess up or you will blow your motor!! Do things in incriments, test and tune!!

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
You CAN easily have a pc hooked to your ecu!! Ive done it and so has many others that i know.

Explain that in detail please! I want to hear this.

We are not talking about getting OBD-II data from a setup like Alex-Pepper's or Autotap.

This is discussing the ability to actually change the PCM settings or self program an external chip. (which the PCM will use in place of it's pre-flashed codes)

[lucky]

Correct. I gave my jet chip to a computer "man" and had him make a computer connector to hook up to a laptop. My families business deals w/ computer chips and baords so i have nice connections when it comes to this. I then had a computer hacker get into my ecu (which took some time w/ out the dealers program). He then went with me on a car ride to evaluate the system and to get a grasp on what goes on during running. We then took small steps in the air/fuel mix. Since i run a tad rich he leaned it out and bumped the timing. And like i said you MUST do this in incriments and alot of test and tuning. What we are working on now is reprogramming the jet chip to what i want, since as soon as we unplug the pc the ecu goes back to original settings. We've been working on this for about two months now but i havnt got the time right now so its on delay. But i will tell you this much, if we do succeed in which my guy says we will, i will inform all of you and sell the info. And i wont charge the ridicoulos $650. that weapon-r charges!! Where theres a will theres a way!!

[lucky]

I was under the impression that we have the obd-3. Not sure though.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
Correct. I gave my jet chip to a computer "man" and had him make a computer connector to hook up to a laptop.

Man are you full of BS!!! :rolleyes:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. I was under the impression that we have the obd-3.
2. Not sure though.

1. OBD-II (II as in roman numerals for 2)

2. I think that's one of the first things you posted that may be true! custom_images/emoticons/shocked.gif

[lucky]

Your intelligence must be pretty low. Look up Bullen ultrasonics inc. That my friend is my families multi million dollar business. We deal with computer chip boards and silicon wafers, if you even Know what a silicon wafer is or what it is used for. I don't don't claim to know everything or i wouldn't be asking for help to make this chip work. But dip****s like yourself will get nowhere in the world because of you ignorance and stupidity. I like discussing things on this forum but people like yourself make people like me want to go elsewhere for advice and help. So take your ugly slow wannabe sports car and stuff it down your a-hole! Dum****.

[DemonSVT]

A ha. The real you again. Called out to explain himself and when he can't he bursts into profanity and ignorance.

The Jet chip is not capable of being "programmed" from a PC (neither is a superchip or diablo) NO MATTER WHAT BS you say you did to it. It uses the wrong PC board setup, E-PROM, and firmware. All 3 require a separate base station that flashes the prom with the new .bin file. The software to do such is also proprietary meaning it ONLY flashes an entire .bin file. No editing of the file is possible.

I really suggest you stop lying and making up BS because it's plainly obvious that you are doing such and really have no idea what you are talking about.

BTW - I'm on the beta test team for the Tweecer (run to Google.com and look up what that is :tongue: ) so I have a pretty good idea what can & can not be done and what it takes to do such.


Originally posted by: The Doofus
I like discussing things on this forum but people like yourself make people like me want to go elsewhere for advice and help.
Man I can only hope so. No I'm not sorry my tearing your utter bullsh~t apart makes you want to leave. I have that effect on lying trolls.

Another thing. If I have a sorry excuse for a sports car and your cougar is built on the exact same CDW-27 platform with a lesser Duratec engine, what does that make you drive??? :rolleyes: Again talking with no clue about what you are saying. I'd suggest not insulting the other CDW-27 owners. All of us "enthusiasts" (leave yourself out) seem to like our cars very much & with good reason.

[lucky]

You again didn't understand what i was referring to when i said we are using the chip for . Its a building platform for what we will eventually will permantly use as a replacement. The computer annalist was using the prongs on the chip to make a cord. You can also "reprogram" ANY CHIP OUT THERE. This my friend can be done if your knowledge exceeds a highschool student. Once again i deal w/ nothing but computer based chips. We are one of the biggest suppliers of Intel and Lam research and also Nasa. I think i do know what im talking about, thanks! You need to once again research on how chip/computers work. Maybe become a friend of a hacker, they will confirm everything. And yes you are right, i was being a tad childish in my remarks, i apologize. So nothing in response to the ignition i see.

[slockin]

People! People! Settle down! :slap:

I'm operating under the assumption that chips (superchips, jet chips, diablo chips, etc) for the Ford computers plug in to the service port in the back of the computer. If these chips can be reprogrammed (and I've heard they can), it means that those chips is an EPROM (Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory). Now if you had the proper EPROM writer to go wtih the chip, you should be able to reprogram you're chip. :biggrin: Most PC's BIOSes use an EPROM chip, hence why you can upgrade the BIOS by flashing the new code on there. However unlikely, but if the Ford computer took the same EPROM chips a computer's motherbaord does, you could use it to rewrite your BIOS chips. :evil:

Now, what to write to the chip is a different matter. Hell, I could write the Linux kernel to it... I'd expect my engine to either not start or grenade. And I'm leaning towards grenading... :( Without both an intricate knowledge of automotive computer systems and an explict memory map of the data to change, then I'd strongly advise against attempting to change anything in this manner.

I'd just assume that the chip tuners have a computer with the correct EPROM writer - along with a program written by the chip manufacturer that allows tuners to modify the data on the chips easily.

Damn it guys - now I want to get into the DIY-EFI project again! I already got enough projects to work on. :banghead:

-Nick

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. You again didn't understand what i was referring to when i said we are using the chip for . Its a building platform for what we will eventually will permantly use as a replacement.
2. So nothing in response to the ignition i see.

1. Why because every other post you change what you said you are doing with it!

"You CAN easily have a pc hooked to your ecu!! Ive done it and so has many others that i know" - followed by your typical childish insults to deflect attention away from your lack of knowledge

"I gave my jet chip to a computer "man" and had him make a computer connector to hook up to a laptop" - Which is total BS since it can not be used as a dynamic & adaptive Chip. It (and most others) can only be burned by a set EPROM flasher and only burned with an ENTIRE .bin file. NOT SELF PROGRAMMABLE! If you don't believe me try telling this load of BS at Corral.net or on the EEC Tuner list. BTW - a Chip can not be flashed this way. It requires an external power source (and NOT a PC either)

"I then had a computer hacker get into my ecu (which took some time w/ out the dealers program). " Like any computer hacker could magically make sense of the 10's of thousands of lines of code solely related to the EEC-V & OBD-II systems. (NOT typical Computer code or language!) Even Ex Ford Engineers that "Actually designed this code" have to refer to their "Ford Bible" for programming an editing software program. There is a reason it takes month to just decipher this code into a program able to edit it on the fly & this is being done by the experts. Not Joe Blow the wannabe hacker. BTW - The machine most dealerships have ONLY flashes a new PCM code into the PCM. They do not allow for editing of the individual code itself!

"What we are working on now is reprogramming the jet chip to what i want, since as soon as we unplug the pc the ecu goes back to original settings" What a load of crap. The program is FLASHED TO THE CHIP's EPROM! No standard aftermarket chip has even a reverse pass-though much less able to pass through a laptop's program directly to the PCM. Also like I stated aftermarket chips ONLY ACCEPT an entire binary file. Not individual changes!!!

"I was under the impression that we have the obd-3. Not sure though." I threw that in the just for spite because it show how ignorant you truly are.

"The computer annalist was using the prongs on the chip to make a cord" Um. Yeah. Because you can program a chip without a power supply (I.E. attached to the PCM or to a docking station) No wait. Let me guess. You plug the chip into this "cord" & the PCM at the same time :rolleyes:

"You can also "reprogram" ANY CHIP OUT THERE" No you can't, neither can I. Chips are able to be reflashed with an entire .bin file However without the software to decipher & edit these binary files (no easy task in creating or all the "computer hackers" would have done it! :rolleyes: ) you will not be able to change anything. Also without the correct chip design (I.E using any standard chip) you can only flash a static .bin file to it that is not adaptive.

"Once again i deal w/ nothing but computer based chips. We are one of the biggest suppliers of Intel and Lam research and also Nasa. I think i do know what im talking about, thanks! You need to once again research on how chip/computers work."
That says nothing, but you trying to feel important while you have no real answers to anything I say except to try and deflect them and my criticism by saying I know nothing and you work for a company that supplies computer chips (with the intelligence level you've shown I wouldn't even buy you worked there as a janitor's helper!)

"Maybe become a friend of a hacker, they will confirm everything."
They would confirm you are an ignorant moron. I am very computer literate and can program in several standard languages. No I do not have a degree in engineering, but do in a few other areas. (Including Automotive & Computer Science) In you insist I can defer to my wife on the Engineering degrees. (both - ME & EE)

Now like you promised you would do before. Plus leave this forum and take your lying troll butt elsewhere. I'd try ClubSi. They seem to be full of folks ranting on your level.

oh yeah.

2. Haven't seen it yet, but the response from Brad last night should have driven home my remarks even a bit further. Unless you posted he also does not know what he is talking about. :rolleyes:

[lucky]

Computer hackers have taking over satellites before doof. Do you REALLY think a little coded Ford crap is hard. You cant be that computer literate if you think that. Why in the good lords name don't you think you cannot have both pc and chip hooked up, can we buy some common since for five dollars please. YOU NEED SOME COMPUTER SCHOOLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you had read my statements before you would realize that its taking months to do this, not one day or even weeks MONTHS!!!! And why WOULD hackers be interested in hacking into ecu's doof. It took me awhile to talk Shannon into doing this because it is BORING to him. He has better fish to catch than little ecu's on cars!

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. Computer hackers have taking over satellites before doof.
2. Do you REALLY think a little coded Ford crap is hard.
3. Why in the good lords name don't you think you cannot have both pc and chip hooked up
1. Like that relates at all. More of your sensationalism and deflection techniques. (yes you can get out the dictionary to look up what those big words mean - I should have told you this earlier by your obvious lack of understanding of most of my posts!)

2. Yes I know it is. We are not talking about standard programming language and running repetitive algorithms to achieve an access code. (I bet I was running NAVpass hex codes before you where even born)
We are talking about deciphering 1 specific memory address for each and every command the PCM has. I mean not only finding the specific address among thousands but actually know what the heck it is and how changing the code effects it in real world numbers. Doing this by trial and error which be quite expensive considering the ramifications of those actions!

3. Explain exactly how you hooked the laptop to the jet chip while the jet chip was attached to the PCM. Also explain how you changed the jetchip's EPROM to except source programming since IT IS NOT POSSIBLE for that type of EPROM!
No stalling, no deflecting, no typical BS! Explain it in detail!

[01blkcat]

3. Explain exactly how you hooked the laptop to the jet chip while the jet chip was attached to the PCM. Also explain how you changed the jetchip's EPROM to except source programming since IT IS NOT POSSIBLE for that type of EPROM!
No stalling, no deflecting, no typical BS! Explain it in detail!

Hey... not to get in the middle of this, I just want to let you know that there currently is a bypass chip that is manfactured for the Ford ECU that actually runs a 13-pin ribbon off of it to a laptop/desktop. While I'm not sure whether it is just used for system monitoring or for system modification, it appears that the idea in itself is doable.

Just my .02.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: 01blkcat
Hey... not to get in the middle of this, I just want to let you know that there currently is a bypass chip that is manfactured for the Ford ECU that actually runs a 13-pin ribbon off of it to a laptop/desktop. While I'm not sure whether it is just used for system monitoring or for system modification, it appears that the idea in itself is doable.

Just my .02.

Correct. Either the EEC tuner or SCTuner fit that description. It's also for EEC-IV only. It is also nowhere near the same setup as a basic flashable chip is. (which is what he's trying to say he is using)
Making the proper setup is one thing. (the easy part) It is the deciphering of the code and writing it into a usable GUI interface program that is the hard part.

NOTHING to date has been released for our EEC-V PCM. Either software or hardware.

You are right. You should not have stepped in it. ;) :biggrin:

[01blkcat]

Heheh... sorry - but at least now I myself know more about that kit -- thanks for the info!

[lucky]

Ok, explain to me how people can burn and make reprogrammable chips(if your that smart). People are out there doing this, why in the hell cant someone w/ the mass computer knowledge and support cant do this, hmmmmmm. This should be good. Oh, thanks for your two cents worth! Atleast there are a few people out there w/ SOME common since!

[01blkcat]

Originally posted by: lucky
Ok, explain to me how people can burn and make reprogrammable chips(if your that smart). People are out there doing this, why in the hell cant someone w/ the mass computer knowledge and support cant do this, hmmmmmm. This should be good. Oh, thanks for your two cents worth! Atleast there are a few people out there w/ SOME common since!

I'm not sure if the above is directed at me, if so, I never said that I knew how to do a chip reprogram... I've done motherboard BIOS chips, but I don't think I'd play with an ECU chip. If you can do it, more power to you, but in my opinion I wouldn't take the chance right now. It may also be that I have the Weapon R ECU installed :)

If you decide to continue with this project -- good luck!

If the above wasn't directed at me, then disregard everything I just said.

[lucky]

NO, wasnt directed at you! Sorry, im just having fun w/ MR. demon boy. Any chip can be reprogrammed, just wanting to know how demon boy thinks no one can. And, if he has done any research on what my business does and what i do for a living, i think its funny, oh well.

[Kaiser]

Even if you did hack the EEC V you couldn't read it unless you borrowed someone else's software. All you would see is 4000 lines of code.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: Kaiser
Even if you did hack the EEC V you couldn't read it unless you borrowed someone else's software. All you would see is 4000 lines of code.

...but he hacked it using a jet chip (static, base station flashable EPROM) and a laptop magically linked to both the PCM & the chip. Then he changed the parameters on the fly, but of course it wouldn't stay changed as when he turned the laptop off the PCM forgot the modifications :rolleyes:

Watch out Chris. He's about to tell you you have no idea about what you are talking about and have no experience tuning or with high power engines using the stock DIS setup. He's already done it to several other knowledgeable & respected members, why not you as well right. ;) :biggrin:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. Ok, explain to me how people can burn and make reprogrammable chips. People are out there doing this,
2. why in the hell cant someone w/ the mass computer knowledge and support cant do this
Where is my detailed explanation??? Is that too difficult to comprehend? I've only asked a half dozen times and you keep deflecting and talking out your ass.

This is the put up or shut up stage son. I've seen nothing put up but BS.

1. I've explained to you at least 3 times how standard chips are burned/flashed. Why can you NOT READ the posts before you! No kidding people are doing this. I mentioned 3 players myself (superchip, diablo, jet) Not any of them have dynamic chips that except adaptive binary files. All 3 are required to be flashed by a base station and registered software. None of the 3 allow for on site custom programming much less programming via a laptop. (you have to call the manufacturer and have their programmers - who are running DIFFERENT software - modify the binary file and send it back to you) Plenty of folks on the EEC tuner list (we are talking some fairly elite programmers with automotive backgrounds) have tried self programming these chips. The design & coding of these chips simple DOES NOT allow it.

2. I've explained this as well. What it takes to do such and why it's not just simple program hacking.

There are at least 3 self programmable chips on the market (I've already mentioned all 3 before as well - tweecer, eec tuner, sc tuner)
NONE of these support the EEC-V processor in any CDW-27 platform.

Tweecer will most likely be the first one to the table with "public" support for our PCM's as they are already in the beta testing stages. (something else I previously mentioned - you should really read the prior posts in their entirety!)
No you can not just buy a tweecer unit and use it. Our PCM's use a completely different chip firmware and software setup. Hence why I state it's not "public" yet. They are only working on the 3rd Beta revision at this time.

Now back to my first burning question. Put up or shut up punk.
Either answer that "apparently" easy question and don't bother posting again..

[RodneyBur]

This sh*t makes me scared to post a message on this forum. I'm not a computer genius and I wouldn't know how to do it myself, but in theory if chip makers can design a chip that hooks into the ecu why couldn't someone else do it? Obviously it is not that hard to design the hookup's to the Ecu especially if you had another chip to go by. The hard part would be getting the right codes to put in the system. That I know would take some sort of computer hacker or code writer. I don't know if he has done it yet, nor would I believe it until I saw some picures or some hard evidence. It does however sound like an interesting idea, if not for practicality but just plain old bragging rights to say you could do it. I think its very possible.

I want to know how hard would it be to copy chips and sell generic versions.

[01blkcat]

Originally posted by: RodneyBur
This sh*t makes me scared to post a message on this forum. I'm not a computer genius and I wouldn't know how to do it myself, but in theory if chip makers can design a chip that hooks into the ecu why couldn't someone else do it? Obviously it is not that hard to design the hookup's to the Ecu especially if you had another chip to go by. The hard part would be getting the right codes to put in the system. That I know would take some sort of computer hacker or code writer. I don't know if he has done it yet, nor would I believe it until I saw some picures or some hard evidence. It does however sound like an interesting idea, if not for practicality but just plain old bragging rights to say you could do it. I think its very possible.

I want to know how hard would it be to copy chips and sell generic versions.

You can copy any chip with a chip copier... I've got one to make backups when I recreate BIOS chips... it would work the same for the ECU chips, but the problem is getting a generic version that you could use, as all ECU versions are different, and Ford wasn't smart enough to make them all backwards-compatible.

[JF]

Good programmers cost $. Then someone like me has to make a fancy GUI interface and make things look pretty for the "users".

Anyway, DemonSVT, since you've definitely been doing your homework Do you know the scoop on Diablo sport's "romulator"?
Diablo Romulator (http://www.diablosport.com/software.html)

Thanks, JF

[PuckPuck]

lucky - you are the biggest ignorant, hypocritical, lying piece of crap i have ever met... a hacker moving a satellite is VERY different then hacking a chip with all assembler code.... satelites have programming that allow them to be moved around, a hacker would only need to bypass the security mechanisms that stop the public from doing this... once in he can issue any of the move commands to the sattelite.

Now onto the EPROM chips. ALL EPROM chips are flashed in one shot. Not step by step. you can not modify a single address on an EPROM chip and save it, you need to modify the entire address in one shot. Now there is one way that you could possibly do what you are explaining, but i won't tell you because you are awful sketchy on your details of what you did, more than likely because you didn't do it... so fess up with details and we'll get off your back... otherwise LEAVE TROLL,LEAVE

Next there is a law that forces Auto Manufacturers to provide "AUTHORIZED" aftermarket chip vendors with confidential information pertaining to the PCM data stored in the car's ECU. Not all the information is given out, but information pertaining to how to emulate "some" values are shared. This is why chip manufacturers can come to the plate and offer a chip in very little time. Joe blow or your super buddy programmer are not privileged to this information. And just to put it in perspective there are over 70000 lines of code in the ECU. Yes that's 70 thousand lines of code... if you could put 50 lines of code per page, then your printout would be over 1400 pages long.... and you said your "hacker" buddy is able to decipher this stuff in his spare time in a few months.... only a fool would think that is possible.... the tweecer team has been working for a over a year to decipher this code and they have a team of people doing it FULL TIME, who do this kind of stuff for a living.

btw: you seem to me like a 16 year old punk who thinks he's l33t, but in reality is just a fool.... quit watching shows like hackers and welcome yourself to the real world....

[01blkcat]

One words, folks: OWNED.

I believe the Triad has spoken.

[FastCougar]

I believe that lucky may know what he is talking about in some instances, but for the most part, his attitude towards questions is utterly and blantantly rude.

As for the ROMulator, the concept is quite simple. Chips work because they store tables of information on a ROM chip. What this would do is allow a RAM chip to be used instead with some EPROM emulator/converter to handle the request ... much like how non G3 intended macs can use a socketed G3 processor. It's all in the programming interfacing with the hardware. Don't ask me to explain, I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I do know that it's possible. There is always a way.

Some interesting reading: EPROM definition (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/E/EPROM.html), EPROM Programmer (http://home.quicknet.com.au/andrewm/eprom1/), I have no clue if this helps! (http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~ece372/supporting%20documents/lecture/68HC11%20Wiring.pdf), more to come.

[FastCougar]

Badda Bing (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=EPROM+Emulator), Badda Bang! (http://www.electronic-projects.net/projects/eprom_emul/index.shtml) (note the copyright date) :wiggle:

[JF]

Thanks for the links on the ePROM, romulator shizit. LOL :goofy: that copyright, I was driving an 83 toyota starlet and in high school!. I wish I still had that starlet. Thanks again for the info. and links.

[luckbfor]

Well i got yelled at for talking about this so im out of discussion for now, sorry. But i will once again call you doofs out e-prom flashed cards/chips are ALL readable AND changeable. We use flashed cards everyday for our Haas cnc machines. If you don't have the $$ to buy a flash card reader then yes you ain't doing crap(nothing). Im sorry the intelligence runs very little for people that obviously have big egos like Demon boy that cant comprehend someone else having the support and knowledge to do what i WILL be doing soon. AND, "little boy" i checked on your so called knowledge about the so called Fords special coded language. NOTHING BUT BS!!!!!!!!!!! ANY computer can decipher a coded language (depending on user knowledge!!). Why you make me ask these stupid questions to my peers at work i don't know. You are correct that this is borderline patent "bending" but thats the market out there, i see it everyday w/ my company! Oh sorry for the change in nickname, went out and bought a new computer. Oh one more thing, my cousins the one that owns the 2000gsr that has headers, jacobs ignition,cold air box, and sometype of ricer boy exhaust. Thats what i called modded doof. Any, yes, ANY gsr that runs 13's is running forced induction!! YOU COULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT IF YOU SAID TYPE-R, but you did not. Im finished. Be back when we are done!!!

[FastCougar]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
Oh sorry for the change in nickname, went out and bought a new computer.For someone with such knowledge, I figure you would have the common sense to click on the link on the login page that read "forget your login information?" ... better yet, I figured with 100+ posts on the board under the alias "lucky" you would have at least figure out how to customize your password to something you could easily remember. Hopefully this new found knowledge will help for when you get your next new computer ;)

[luckbfor]

don't really care , should i, uh NO! Sorry, said i was done but i couldn't resist.:stupid:

[luckbfor]

Originally posted by: lucky
NO, wasnt directed at you! Sorry, im just having fun w/ MR. demon boy. Any chip can be reprogrammed, just wanting to know how demon boy thinks no one can. And, if he has done any research on what my business does and what i do for a living, i think its funny, oh well.

That my man is why they make computers, to do the hard stuff!! Decipher, Decode, hack, etc............

:biggrin:

[miknne]

Maybe you could have your "hacker buddy" 00hack00 into this forum and retrive your password...
:) grin:

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: luckbfor

Originally posted by: lucky
NO, wasnt directed at you! Sorry, im just having fun w/ MR. demon boy. Any chip can be reprogrammed, just wanting to know how demon boy thinks no one can. And, if he has done any research on what my business does and what i do for a living, i think its funny, oh well.

That my man is why they make computers, to do the hard stuff!! Decipher, Decode, hack, etc............

:biggrin:

i'm sorry but that just shows how computer illeterate you are... sure any computer can read the code stored in the chip, however it takes a programmer to write a program to decipher the code... and since the code and data are store in a format proprietery to ford (i'm not talking about store in assembler either, i'm talking about WHERE in the chip the code/data are stored) it would take a hacker many days and quite a few supercomputers to crack... for example, your 128 bit encryption... sure you can crack it, if you have 100 computers wired in parralell all trying to decipher the code, however that kind of power is not part of a laptop.... like i said before, you live in a fantasy world, are full of ****, and really have no clue what you are talking about.... you mention your family owns this multi-million dollar business, however you never mention what your role is besides operating a cnc machine which is VERY FAR from programming. cnc machines take a program, but the program is a step by step of operations to perform... a real program has something called logic, step by step operations are not logic.

[JF]

God all mighty feckin hell, I'm a very patient man but lucky I can't take it anymore, you are an immature idiot.
I hope your 00hacker00 peeps bust out some mean code, then you can sell your application for millions of pounds of turds.
Wouldn't a man of your genius nature, with l33t access to technology build his own computer?

[MercMobile]

1. If you are going to argue the point and claim you have something no one else in the world has... take a picture.
2. I know people have noticed he has claimed to know a guy who editted an encrypted EPROM.. and basically what he's saying is.. he apparenlty know's a guy.. a "hacker" who somehow knows what every character in an encrypted file stands for, was able to convert/decode it.. and THEN edit a READ ONLY file?
3. With the time and effort you and your hacker friend and your hardware genius, etc, etc, etc, put into this.. don't you think it would be smart to .. oh.. I dunno.. manufacturer it at half the cost of other companies (Weapon-R or AEM with the programmable ECU).. and put them out the door in that market? Seriously man.. you... "invented the impossible".. for the love of god market it.. :rolleyes:
4. When you create a "new name" ... you should wait until the other one is banned first.. otherwise it makes you look rather silly.


how fast? creamed a modded GSR And? How does that determine how fast you are? I launched from a traffic light last night at normal speeds, I probably did the 1/4 mile in about 25 - 30 seconds.. speed limit was 40... However.. I DESTROYED the 03 Corvette next to me.. but.. then again.. he didn't realize the light was green and he was driving slower than me.. he looked to be deep in conversation..

So.. how'd you cream him? on a track? got a time? scan the slip, I wanna see your Reaction, 1/8, and 1/4..

[luckbfor]

Originally posted by: JF
God all mighty feckin hell, I'm a very patient man but lucky I can't take it anymore, you are an immature idiot.
I hope your 00hacker00 peeps bust out some mean code, then you can sell your application for millions of pounds of turds.
Wouldn't a man of your genius nature, with l33t access to technology build his own computer?

Never said i was the computer genius hotrod, im not, my friend Shannon is the computer nerd. You must read more carefully. Binary codes are NOT hard my friend. Heres in a small way what we are doing right now. This is the only way i can show you since Shannon wont let me show anyone what we are doing, OK! AND read only files are the easiest to get into. But once you do get into them they are useless (deleted). "Flashed" cards are the hardest though, they are still a new(kinda) thing and are getting harder. Also, what i haven't mentioned is i do have a inside source to Fords SVT engineering (i know one). Im sure you wont believe that but to bad. Once again this is close to what we are working on. This should prove that this can be done and will continue to be done. Hope i did the upload correctly.

[luckbfor]

This is what i want as soon as the obd-II binary codes are deciphered. The guys im working w/ are convinced that the Binary codes are different from what this link obviously knows (probably obd-I codes). This will be confirmed hopefully tomorrow. You guys have put me into hyperdrive on this quest, thanks! Hopefully when Shannon finds out the mapping on the Jet chip we will be WELL on our way to advance everyone that owns a Ford. I also have a uncle that works for GM that says he may be able to find the binary code decipher(this is a maybe though). Doesnt matter hex or not. Have they changed this from obd-I's? If not it does not matter, but that will be confirmed through the SVT engineer OR when shannan maps out the Jet chip. Thanks for that info, i had heard that also today talking to someone at work.

[Kaiser]

You are missing the point. Let me review. You want to plug you laptop into the EEC V and gain control of it. The only way the car will run the way you want is with the laptop hooked up. There are 3 units...count them 3....that are being beta tested that work better. These are programmed plugged in and forgotten about. All of them I believe have a switch on the fly feature for several programs. You don't have to worry about your laptop getting stolen and then you are screwed. Your entire library of files that will probably take you 50 dyno runs or more to create...gone. Why would you waste yours and others time on something that already exists?
I am also curious why you believe that you are right and everyone else who has responded is wrong? No one will spend the money on this when the others are less than $400. Even if you could do it (which personally, I don't think you can) why would you?

[luckbfor]

Your missing my point i believe (not being a smart butt). I don't want to leave my laptop in the car. My initial trial was done this way to see what exactly goes on while driving. Which in turn told me/us that wasn't really the way to go, which you mentioned. I want to plug a chip in but to my own configurations. This means we will have to do this ourselves. In all fellas, if worse came to worse you can bypass these ecu's if you really wanted and make your own ecu board. Last thing is, do you realize the cost of making a chip like Jet??? Probably not unless you are in the inside of a computer based business which im sure atleast one of you are. A single board cost $10.00!!! Now yes if you don't have the equipment, that does cost money, you wouldn't find this to be a good idea, but i do, so why not. WE deal w/ computer boards and programing daily. Im not trying to sound conceited i was hoping someone would say DO IT AND THEM HELP ME, but no i got smart remarks and guys that think im ignorant. I rely on common since, and my family does to, which in turn made our business in the top five profitable in the tri-state. I just thought this was common since that there are people out there already doing this why cant i and make a small amount of money w/out infringing on patent laws. Also, you wouldnt do any dyno runs if you have these hex/binary codes deciphered. Thanks.

[NorCalCoug]

Common sense is what led you to believe that something that tells the ECU you're flowing more air to richen the fuel mixture will somehow make it suck in more air, right? :biggrin:

[luckbfor]

No, saying it the wrong way gets smart ass remarks. Depending on driving conditions (Racing or not) the Venom will lean out. WHICH MEANS MORE AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I see you had to go back to a old subject that was just worded badly by me. Once again, drop the old and stuped subject of the Venom!

[PuckPuck]

you know what i find most hilarious about this entire thing... you posted the SCTUNER website which is the software front for the EEC Tuner control board.... which only works with the EEC IV chip... we use an EEC V format chip... furthermore... EEC Tuner is currently developing said chip... and they aren't doing it with a few runs using a laptop, that's for sure.

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
Also, you wouldnt do any dyno runs if you have these hex/binary codes deciphered. Thanks.


Now I know you know nothing about tuning.

I'm done arguing, it won't be worth the effort and it is not pheasable.

[luckbfor]

You nor eading very carfully are you. I said this was in a small way what we are doing. Did i say this was Exactly what we are doing, nope. My point, which you missed, was this can be done!! So what if the computer they are using is old. Obviously they have done the hard part by deciphering the code, right. Im using up to date stuff here, not intended to figure out old obd-I coding. Still laughing? Im still surfing and finding a huge amount on decoding hex codes and binary codes. You may want to do the same before returning w/ a laugh on this forum!:banghead:

[luckbfor]

Originally posted by: Kaiser

Originally posted by: luckbfor
Also, you wouldnt do any dyno runs if you have these hex/binary codes deciphered. Thanks.


Now I know you know nothing about tuning.

I'm done arguing, it won't be worth the effort and it is not pheasable.

Good! One less person to convince they have there head up there butt. My friend do some surfing before arguing on tuning. You may get smarter. And if you had seen anything that has to do w/ these codes they are cut and dry.

Air flow in neutral
Air flow in drive
Advance rate vs rpm
wot advance vs bp

Yes, im sure ill want to test my car after words, who wouldnt? But large amounts of dyno runs is not needed. You can map out the air/feul mixture throughout the rpm range and see what is best. And of course you will need a laptop for this. If you want i can go into this a little deeper if needed, but please.
:rolleyes:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
1. My friend do some surfing before arguing on tuning. You may get smarter.

2. And if you had seen anything that has to do w/ these codes they are cut and dry.
Air flow in neutral
Air flow in drive
Advance rate vs rpm
wot advance vs bp

3. But large amounts of dyno runs is not needed. You can map out the air/feul mixture throughout the rpm range and see what is best.

4. If you want i can go into this a little deeper if needed, but please.

1. Chris (Kaiser) has around 550 dyno runs under his belt. That's just for his 00 SVT. Which of course is the test mule for the street flight turbo kit. Which before that was the test mule for tubular header, intake pipes, intake spacers, and a few other things not openly known. He's also one of the first tweecer beta test users. I think he has a pretty decent clue about tuning.

Boy do you really know how to stick your foot in your mouth! :rolleyes:

2. Those are basic EEC-IV code tables. You'll notice I said EEC-IV!!! If you'd like I can show you what some EEC-V screens (scalars, multipliers, base tables, etc) look like you ignorant moron since you have no clue what you are even trying to use as proof of your bogus endeavors.

Airflow at anything! No such variable. It's called the MAF Transfer Function! Airflow per MAF voltage reading at 30 voltage points. This is what the PCM uses for determining numerous parameters (A/F & Load are 2 large ones)
Advance vs RPM - There are no less then 12 separate tables for this alone!!! Not taking into account scalars & countless multipliers. Again clueless as usual!
Advance vs BP. heheh... Tell me where the MAP sensor is. PLEASE. heheh... This isn't an EEC-IV Mustang!

3. How are you going to measure your A/F ratio & plot it against engine rpm??? Let me guess. By osmosis! No wait. You are going to use a blinky light A/F gauge because we all know how accurate they are. Oh hey I have it now. You have a wide band O2 sensor on your car from the factory and Ford even installed the proper controller and digital readout. Plus while they were at it they through in realtime datalogging because you were such an upstanding fellow. :rolleyes:

4. but please? You haven't gone even into simple facts or details (remember the put up or shut up punk) Those 4 base tables you likely pulled from google.com as they are not even in our PCM so you definitely did not get this information there! (see #2) :rolleyes:

Damn you are just too easy to tear apart. This is really not any fun anymore. I really don't even have to tell people how stupid you really are because anyone with even an iota of brain power would have cut & run long ago. You just are so clueless about everything you don't even realize this by now & it's been told to you multiple times even. (there's that reading impediment again!)

BTW - you should tell your teachers to help you with grammar and spelling. While it is becoming of your apparent intellect level it's pretty hard to decipher at times.

[Frank]

And all this for what, 5 horsepower on your stock 2.5L motor? So you can be like Paul Walker in FnF and play with your laptop while your car is falling apart at 140MPH? I don't get it.

I don't care if you tune your car to run on 114 octane leaded race gas... your stock 2.5L motor cannot physically breathe enough air and fuel for it make much of a difference. Boost it, swap it for something bigger, or do both... then you'll see what tuning is really for.

[MercMobile]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
No, saying it the wrong way gets smart ass remarks. Depending on driving conditions (Racing or not) the Venom will lean out. WHICH MEANS MORE AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I see you had to go back to a old subject that was just worded badly by me. Once again, drop the old and stuped subject of the Venom!Wait.. so you did this to get more air so that your engine would send more fuel.. you know you could have simply done the "IAT" mod right? Just trick it into thinking it's getting more and colder air and it will send more and more fuel.. so in reality you are getting the same air and more fuel.. .... you knew this right? It's like a 20 cent resistor at radio shack...

[PuckPuck]

deciphering hex codes is not the problem.... the problem is knowing WHERE amongts the 70000 lines of code are the fuel/air/ignition map tables stored.....

i never said converting hex or binary to assembler code was the problem.. heck programs exists to do it... however you still have figure out WHERE the data is...

also remember a fuel map table will look similar to the ignition map table (and there are quite a few more than 1 for each type)... however you have no way of knowing which table it is (if it is even a table).....

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE YET?!?!?

btw: i was prolly hacking computers while you were just a toddler so don't tell me what is and what isn't possible.

[GrandMasterKhan]

i am kind of glad LUCKYBFOR keeps yapping...thanks to him this post have become an extensive resource of information about ECUs and shuff. now we just need to delete all of LUCKBFOR's posts to strain out all the CRAP!

:banhim:

[Seelow]

:drama:

[luckbfor]

[luckbfor]

[Frank]

:hitit:

[PuckPuck]

OBD II info? that's what it looks like at least...

[DemonSVT]

That appears to be EEC-IV code to me. (OBD-I) Again! Not "the actual" code mind you because that's in Hex format.

OBD-II does not use a ground test loop. This is also why you can't simply pull codes on an OBD-II vehicle like you can on OBD-I vehicles.

[luckbfor]

haaaaaaaaaaa!! I have both, must i repeat BOTH OBD I AND OBD II codes! Unfortunatly this website will not except such large amounts of info or i would give you guys more. I have over 1000 pages of info but since i got **** on so much i hope you guys can get this stuff to. Might i remind you guys though that even though i have this info there is still alot of deciphering to go!! I got alot answered by my insider to tell which is for ignition or fuel mapping etc............

[luckbfor]

:biggrin::bowdown:

[FastCougar]

Try this (see attachment)

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
haaaaaaaaaaa!! I have both, must i repeat BOTH OBD I AND OBD II codes! Unfortunatly this website will not except such large amounts of info or i would give you guys more. I have over 1000 pages of info but since i got **** on so much i hope you guys can get this stuff to. Might i remind you guys though that even though i have this info there is still alot of deciphering to go!! I got alot answered by my insider to tell which is for ignition or fuel mapping etc............

Why the hell would we care about OBD-I info?
Why would you post OBD-I info if "you knew" it was OBD-I info and our cars ARE NOT OBD-I? That's either completely stupid or just plain ignorant. Which one is it?

#1 The binary code IS WORTHLESS without the software to edit it.
#2 The binary code is worthless without the processor strategy cracked.
#3 The binary code is worthless without information placement knowledge.

#1 Can be worked around
#2 Can not. you MUST crack the processor strategy and if you don't know how it's arranged YOU HAVE NO CHANCE. So you're pseudo (that's fake BTW) computer hacker HAS NO CHANCE.
#3 This you can not even guess at and get right. This is where having knowledge of the OEM EEC-V programming and countless hours of deciphering come in. (again see that NO CHANCE part)

So what exactly is it again that we are not going to get to see from you...

You "claimed" to have programmed your car from the start.
Then it was proven that you could not have done it.
Then it was proven that you definitely did not have an iota of a clue of how to or why you could not have done it. (We won't even bring up the fact you "supposedly" installed a capacitive discharge box on a DIS setup & then changed your story to saying it was a DIS setup (not realizing the stock was DIS) once you were proven wrong Plus didn't know about need several extra parts to even install such a setup)
Then it was proven that you didn't know the difference between OBD-I & OBD-II and your self claimed OBD-3 (heheh)
Then you post EEC-IV parameters and try to pass it off as your "cracked code" and get proven wrong again.
The yet again you post EEC-IV (maybe even any OBD-I code actually) and try to pass it off as your "cracked code" and get proven wrong yet again.

Still the same old worthless BS posted by you!

[luckbfor]

Im sorry, did i say i deciphered the code dip. No sure did not. You must get some computer knowledge before you speak. ANY computer locked or code locked or what the hell ever CAN be got into(you might as well call the little processor a computer). Your retarded if you think not. Ive seen whole computers locked by numerous codes and had them broke into. When i say broke into i mean they had to actually take apart the pc to get into the "processors/hard drives" to unlock them. Where the hell do you think i got that info, my a-hole. Take your head out your rear for one moment please. Did i say you needed the OBD-I codes? Nope! don't care if you did anyway brother. I have said this once before and i can see that you cant do any searching for info that hex or binary does not make either one any harder than the other. Numeric,colored, 1-100 code, 1-infinity, they are all codes that can be broke and deciphered. Look up "hackerspider", maybe they can shed some light on you inability to believe that a little computer that controls a car can be reprogrammed or hacked into etc....

[Frank]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
When i say broke into i mean they had to actually take apart the pc to get into the "processors/hard drives" to unlock them....

It's called a clear password jumper... and it's called a motherboard... and it's called page 3 of the manual... and I don't know why I'm wasting my time right now.

:banhim:

[luckbfor]

You are wasting your time, because once again someone has never seen a locked a computer to the point were you have to break inside the pc. There are so many different ways to call motherboards or whatever, so yes your wasting your time with stupid remarks that have nothing to do w/ the conversation. sorry. Password jumper???????????????????? Do what. Something else that has nothing to do w/ the conversation.

[Frank]

Never seen a "locked computer?" Whatever that means. I've been servicing PC's professionally for 4 years and I'm a 3rd year Computer Science major. I think I know a little more than some punk kid that brought some girl over his house, rented "The Net" and ended up having to sit through the whole movie because he's got no game. just kidding. very drunk. happy new year O lord of geekdom. :poke:

[PuckPuck]

luckybfor.... you still don't get the point... I DO NOT CARE IF YOU CAN READ THE ENTIRE PROCESSOR CODE AND POST IT.... UNTIL YOU CAN MAKE SENSE OF WHAT THE 5,600,000 characters (@ 8 bits per character that's 44,800,000 1's and 0's OR 11,200,000 HEX Codes) for the 70 000 lines of code you have NOTHING... get it NOTHING, ZILCH, ZERO CAPICHE!!!!

further more OBD-II is made so you can tap into it... it stands for On Board Diagnosis, and just in case you didn't know, you can already buy programs for less than 100$ to tap into your vehicle's OBD system, read all the information it provides and reset your MIL (or CEL), however using OBD YOU CAN NOT MODIFY PROGRAM PARAMETERS OF THE VEHICLE'S ECU. http://www.autotap.com if you want one, cause they way you are going you are just wasting your time trying to figure out OBD-II

As for your little thing about unlocking a PC using a jumper..... welcome to my job when i was 16, it's called being a PC technician, and i'm sorry but if you are bragging about that, it goes to show just how far down the PC Tech ladder you are..... i did that job when i was 16 before finishing high-school....

keep quoting the hacker sites... thoses are for 16 year old fools like you who "think" they can hack.... you prolly couldn't even tell me what 1F08:0012 would be

[luckbfor]

Alright im done posting things that get craped on, you guys win! And just for you computer no alls if it wasnt for my company you wouldnt be hacking around on that little pc your mom gave you as a hand me down! WE MAKE PC's WORK!!! AND, WE ARE THE LARGEST IN THE US, AND WE HAVE THE ONLY MACHINE IN THE WORLD THAT CAN PRODUCE THE AMOUNTS OF SILICAN THAT WE DO. Once again look up my fam's business Bullen Ultrasonics, i think we have more than just little pc techs that just sit around and put in hard drives and motherboards in all day. And if you think you can get somewhere w/ just a degree in computer science think again. Not bangin anyone that takes the initiative to go to school but the pc world you need atleast a DR degree . Ok im done. Ill take my loses and run, until i have solid proof!

[Kaiser]

You mean you are finally done name dropping? Thank God. If you know everything why do you care what we think? We don't care about your "solid" proof and please don't take away the family genius' from their work to invent something that has already been invented. I would personally hate to be responsible for a recession in the silicone chip industry.:rolleyes:

[luckbfor]

If you read the post you would noticed i mentioned i did not admit i know everything, why do think i have someone else doing the hard work?? AND, the main reason i want to do this was to save $500.00. And not only for me but to others as well that own a 2.5L Ford, but insted i got "you cant" "your full of bs", but like you JUST said theres already people out there doing this. See my point yet? If you could do this for $100 insted of paying Weapon-r $650.00 i think you would, or atleast try. But God forbid someone on Neco trying something out of the ordinary. And once again my info is not from my experience w/ ecu's or pcm's its from others that say they have done it or have seen it done. I think from now on i'll just quote only what i have experienced, i dont want anyone to think im tredding on there territory (motor god territory). oops i said i was done, sorry.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

now where are you guys gonna put the lap top?

i have a lap top i wanna use inmy car for my GPS but I dont have astand... any one have any ideas on that?

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
If you read the post you would noticed i mentioned i did not admit i know everything, why do think i have someone else doing the hard work?? AND, the main reason i want to do this was to save $500.00. And not only for me but to others as well that own a 2.5L Ford, but insted i got "you cant" "your full of bs", but like you JUST said theres already people out there doing this. See my point yet? If you could do this for $100 insted of paying Weapon-r $650.00 i think you would, or atleast try. But God forbid someone on Neco trying something out of the ordinary. And once again my info is not from my experience w/ ecu's or pcm's its from others that say they have done it or have seen it done. I think from now on i'll just quote only what i have experienced, i dont want anyone to think im tredding on there territory (motor god territory). oops i said i was done, sorry.


ok luckbfor... this is where your ignorance shines...

OBD = On Board Diagnosis... what that is, a system that dealerships, mechanics, joe blow who wants to know, use to tap in to READ system parameters for diagnosis reasons....

what you want to to is MODIFY ENGINE PARAMETERS.... big difference... if you said you wanted to make your own obd-ii reader, you would of actually of gotten help from other members who have (including me)... heck at one point in time (about a year and a half ago), i started writing a GUI interface for another member who wrote all the communication code and made a cable to tap in, then we were going to sell it to neco for very cheap, however due to other reasons and the fact that autotap went down in price and is much more easy to use full of features we dropped the idea (think 100$ for an autotap)....

WE ARE STILL TELLING YOU IF YOU WANT TO MODIFY THE ECU MAP TABLES YOU WILL NOT BE DOING IT THE WAY YOU SAY.

Also i don't care what your family business is, your knowledge of computers is obviously mediocre at best by just reading what you are posting. and quit trying to push your family's business, the more you do, the more you make yourself look like billy madison.

in short OBD is not the same thing as the ECU... OBD is an industry standard communication protocol for cars, used to read system parameters for diagnostic reasons.

[luckbfor]

Also i don't care what your family business is, your knowledge of computers is obviously mediocre at best by just reading what you are posting. and quit trying to push your family's business, the more you do, the more you make yourself look like billy madison.

lol, now thats the only comment ive enjoyed! Kinda funny but thats one of my favorite movies. In many ways you are correct on how i want to do this parameter changes on my ecu. The guys im working w/ are changing daily how we are going to do this. So far we have now three Ford "insiders" working w/ us since we surprised them by getting all of the codes. Our insiders would not directly give us the codes but said if we got that far then they would help. But now its a waiting game while they give us the actual meaning and definition for the codes. Yes people have this out but they can only abide the emission laws, i don't since Preble county does not have emissions. Yes my pc knowledge is very mediocre, ive only started using "personal" computers for two years. I use computers in a whole different way at work(mainly dos mode). And no i don't want a reader, thats kinda the way we got the codes, not using the reader but its ability to spit out the codes.

[PuckPuck]

So far we have now three Ford "insiders" working w/ us since we surprised them by getting all of the codes. Our insiders would not directly give us the codes but said if we got that far then they would help. But now its a waiting game while they give us the actual meaning and definition for the codes.

hate to say it.... "but we told you so"

if you want to crack the ford eec-v, you need to know what everything means... now you have sourced some help from ford, good going, now just hope they don't make you wait too long