3.0 short block swap????

[lucky]

Has anyone tried this yet? This sound really appealing to me. Sounds like a easy way to reach 220 hp (w/ some extras). I read up on it and it would cost under $1200 w/ all the pieces you need like head gaskets and all! What do you guys think?

[JAKESTL]

You might try the 3.0 forum, I have heard of people using 3.0 block with svt (2.5) heads, called a hybrid engine. Using the 2.5 heads bumps the compression, and the svt 2.5 heads also flow better than the 3.0's!

Jake

[ShadowCougar]

Try around $3000 just for a simple swap if you can find someone who will do it for cheap. It is a hard swap, and the ones who got it done are still tunning and fixing... Doing it yourself will prove to be more work than you could ever imagine... Just my .02

Gus.

[bnoon]

It's not a hard swap at all. Did mine for less than $800 total. I continue to tune it for more power, but it ran just fine on the stock ECU and 19# Mustang injectors I had. As far as the engine itself, if you have any engine experience at all you can do this swap, it just takes a while.

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:

[PuckPuck]

It's not that expensive... I paid about 1600$ and that includes head work and all fluid changes as well as tool rentals and a few misc items i had to pick up... I also got a very low mileage 2001 3.0 block. The problem is time... it takes lots of time, patience... someone like brad who does this quite often can pull it off in a weekend, but others would take 2-3 weeks to do it all properly

[Ripple]

The key is getting a low milage block. If you get a higher milage one (like I did), you might want to consider tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it. This is were it will start to cost you more money.

[ShadowCougar]

Brad, Puck, I am working on the assumption he would have someone do the install for him, as most people would not have, at least to my understanding, the engine experience, and time, to do it by themselves... I know I can't ;)
Anyways, yeah if you are doing it yourself, then all you have to worry about is parts...

[lucky]

The place i read up on it said that the 3.0 short block (brand new) would only cost $1200. This will bolt on to my existing 2.5 heads. Fyi, heads generally will not bump your compression up, pistons (flat top) will do the big compression jump. I would be doing the job myself and was guessing 2-3 weeks. And thats even w/ my car lift and all the tools required. If you say that you have done this what was your impression, good/bad. And who did the special machine work on the block, some is required. Has anyone done any porting and polishing on the heads? Thanks!

[ShadowCougar]

Mr. Brad Noon (bnoon) was mr. 3.0L himself, so anything related to that he can tell you just what to expect.

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: lucky
The place i read up on it said that the 3.0 short block (brand new) would only cost $1200. This will bolt on to my existing 2.5 heads. Fyi, heads generally will not bump your compression up, pistons (flat top) will do the big compression jump. I would be doing the job myself and was guessing 2-3 weeks. And thats even w/ my car lift and all the tools required. If you say that you have done this what was your impression, good/bad. And who did the special machine work on the block, some is required. Has anyone done any porting and polishing on the heads? Thanks!

you should read that same site a few more times....

putting your 2.5L heads on that 3.0L engine will most definetly bump your compression up... to a nice 11:1....

if you are seriously interested, i would first recommend you make a plan....

basically it comes down to this.... How much money do you want to spend "Going Fast = Spending Cash"

think about that... you can even lay your cash out in stages... do you want to eventualy boost it? stay naturally aspirated? then you have the cam consideration, how much porting and polishing, nitrous, and always remember, put 3000 aside just for the transmission if you do anything close to 300hp range....

[DemonSVT]

How can you have both a Venom 400 & a jet chip & WHY would you? (if it where even possible)

Why run an MSD and how did you set it up and get it to work? (no help other folks!)

How can you have NO pre-cats? Headers? Even empty they are still there.

Why can't you search or research this information and "fyi" you are dead wrong. 3L hybrid = ~11.2 CR - stock is 9.7 CR That's a mighty large increase!

[lucky]

Not one to argue but i come from old school 350's and 302's and you most certainly dont get that kind of compression jump. Absolutely unheard of guys. Like i did say, you will get some, but not what your quoting. I would have to see a compression check and actually see the difference. The only time you would see that kind of jump is if you did some machining of the heads. Why do you think the SVT 2.5 has such a higher compression than ours, hopefully you dont think its because of the heads? Read up on what Motortrend has said about those motors. Im only going on what ive read in the past about the SVT 2.5 and ours. Like i said i really think this 3.0 conversion is very possible, and w/ out spending anymore than $2000! Well, like i said im not in here to argue over goofey stuff like compression. Thanks!

[lucky]

I sent back the headers. And why wouldnt you have the chip and Venom?? One deals w/ timing and the other deals w/ air/fuel mixture. They are very much compatible, check Venoms website!!!

[lucky]

Originally posted by: DemonSVT
How can you have both a Venom 400 & a jet chip & WHY would you? (if it where even possible)

Why run an MSD and how did you set it up and get it to work? (no help other folks!)

How can you have NO pre-cats? Headers? Even empty they are still there.

Why can't you search or research this information and "fyi" you are dead wrong. 3L hybrid = ~11.2 CR - stock is 9.7 CR That's a mighty large increase!

Demonsvt, are you serious about the msd ignition? When you get more fuel what do you want to do w/ it, burn it efficiently. You also get better gas mileage and can program it for nitrous. Do you know what is in cats? If you did you wouldn't ask that question.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
I sent back the headers. And why wouldnt you have the chip and Venom?? One deals w/ timing and the other deals w/ air/fuel mixture. They are very much compatible, check Venoms website!!!

A Jet chip uses the PCM port. Where does the Venom hook too?

Why would the jet chip not tune A/F ratio like any other aftermarket chip?

Why spend 3-4 times the amount for both compared to a "normal" chip? That's ridiculous. It's akin to paying $700 for a Weapons-Rice ECU to do the same thing :rolleyes:

How did you setup the MSD unit? (MSD's Digital box!) Are you saying you simply plugged it in and it worked? Elaborate...

The stock Ford DIS (Inductive not Capacitive Discharge!) will supply plenty of current even past the mechanical rpm failure limit of the engine. Even under high heat and max current charge time it takes under 5ms to charge/saturate/fire cycle. 6000rpm ~ 10ms. So then at 12000+ rpm the coil may not have enough time to properly saturate. Tell me when you get there. :biggrin:

What do cats (and having platinum) have to do with the ignition system. The stock ignition has more than enough output to "efficiently" burn the A/F mixture. Better gas mileage too! Lemme guess it raised your power level as well :rolleyes:

[lucky]

The Venom is hooked on the maf and tricks the ecu when you are at half throttle that it is at full throttle and to open up for more air and fuel. I bought the chip when i first bought the car. I then bought the Venom a year after having the car. You can reprogram the Venom to what you want, meaning that you can have it open up later in the rpm range or earlier, thats your preference. The Venom has nothing to do ww/ your timing, the chip does. I will have to agree that the chip is a waist of money if you have a 5-speed. I would never buy waepon-r stuff again. They have been in a lawsuit a few times over people blowing their motors w/ there aftermarket parts. The msd system was a very easy setup. I would be glad to scan the directions for you if it interest you that much. Like i said before i have my car running a bit rich, sooo i needed the msd to efficiently burn all the extra fuel. My entire setup is designed for the computerized nitrous system, but i haven't got my wife to ok that purchase yet. I have done ALOT of research on what i needed when i bought this car. And the things i have on my car are there for a damn good reason whether people believe it or not. Maybe down the road when a few people have blown motors and i don't then maybe doughting people will get it. Im on this site to learn and help man. Thanks!

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. The Venom is hooked on the maf and tricks the ecu when you are at half throttle that it is at full throttle and to open up for more air and fuel. I bought the chip when i first bought the car. I then bought the Venom a year after having the car.

2.The msd system was a very easy setup. I would be glad to scan the directions for you if it interest you that much.

3. Like i said before i have my car running a bit rich, sooo i needed the msd to efficiently burn all the extra fuel.

4. And the things i have on my car are there for a damn good reason whether people believe it or not. Maybe down the road when a few people have blown motors and i don't then maybe doughting people will get it!
1. So in other words it is absolutely worthless. It basically dumps extra fuel (adding more air is IMPOSSIBLE!) in the A/F mixture and causes the engine to run richer (less power) than it already does instead of leaning out the mixture to make more power.
Not only that, but if it only hooks to the MAF how does it fool the TPS reading to the PCM??? That's not possible either!

2. You still have not said exactly what MSD component (or components) you are running nor shown pics of the setup. (skip the directions - PICS!)
On top of that at best the MSD unit is as good as the stock Ford DIS & still is not 100% compatible with the ignition system. More likely it's not even as good as the stock Ignition as Ford's DIS is quite exceptional (see last post for proof & BTW SHOShop made 550HP & 8000+ rpm on the stock Ford DIS system on a S/C SHO)

3. No doubt, see #1 & the MSD IS NOT more efficient. (see previous post. Again)

4. Okay that's just a "yeah, whatever" :rolleyes:

[NorCalCoug]

If you search he's posted two pictures in the past.

[lucky]

Your ford ignition is sufficient if your running little upgrades. But, the Ford ignition only sparks ounce(research this please) and the msd sparks many times and faster than stock. You can also programm the msd (you can also research this yourself). I have mine cutting my car off at 6700rpm, this protects from missing a gear and foolishly going to high in the rpm rang while racing. You have to find your peak power and plus 500 rpm's and then have it shut your car down before you hurt your internals. And if there is a speed shop that says msd (or any other ignition) doesnt help they need to be out of business!!!!!

Why would you think its impossible to get more air?????????? You need to research some of this. I dont mind giving some advice but not to the point where i feel like im talking to my five year old daughter. And im not sure what your talking about cats and platinum for?? Not on the subject. And dont take me seriously w/ my comments, im just playing around w/ you.

[NorCalCoug]

I think you may be a bit misguided on your Venom unit. If it hooks into the MAF, all it can do is tell the ECU that the airflow rate is higher than it really is, and make it compensate with more fuel. The throttle plate isn't open far enough to actually be flowing that much air, so regardless of how much fuel your Venom is telling your car to dump, you are only flowing X amount CFM of air that a half-open throttle plate can flow. That is your choke point. You can't flow any faster than the throttle plate will let you. The venom can't make your car suck in more air, period, unless it somehow fools the IMRC into opening the secondaries at a lower RPM than they should be, but somehow I doubt that.

:bs:

[lucky]

Not 100% sure how it works now since its been so long since ive talked about it. But, like i said it works completely different than the chip. Research it if interested, but im telling you that the Venom was the biggest gain ive gotten! Thanks.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. Your ford ignition is sufficient if your running little upgrades.
2. But, the Ford ignition only sparks ounce(research this please) and the msd sparks many times and faster than stock.
3. You can also programm the msd (you can also research this yourself).
4. I have mine cutting my car off at 6700rpm, this protects from missing a gear and foolishly going to high in the rpm rang while racing.
5. You have to find your peak power and plus 500 rpm's and then have it shut your car down before you hurt your internals. And if there is a speed shop that says msd (or any other ignition) doesnt help they need to be out of business!!!!!
6. Why would you think its impossible to get more air?????????? You need to research some of this.
7. I dont mind giving some advice but not to the point where i feel like im talking to my five year old daughter. And im not sure what your talking about cats and platinum for?? Not on the subject.
8. And dont take me seriously w/ my comments, im just playing around w/ you.

We it's definitely apparent you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's like you don't even read what I have posted or maybe just can't comprehend it.

1. Hello! 550+ HP SHO from the stock Ford DIS. Several 350 HP FI Duratecs. How about any modded 4.6L Mustang. I think that surpasses "little upgrades" :rolleyes:

2. I already went into detail to the FACT that the DIS setup has obsoleted the RPM factor in coil saturation and it's cycle! We ARE NOT TALKING about a Capacitive Discharge ignition! A DIS setup is far superior. If you want to downgrade to older technology and a single coil go right ahead. There is a BIG reason why the MSD NEEDS to fire multiple times. It's because it's spark output drops at high rpms and it uses this to compensate. It's a "band aid" design/fix for an old technology's limitations. Yes I admit it's a very good design for one stuck running this style igntion, but definitely not over DIS.

Here is an excerpt about the MSD setup compared to a superior DIS Ignition from a very knowledgeable engineer (off the EEC tuner list)

"From my waveform database on MSD's, the coil is fired at idle on an 8 cylinder application approximately 4 times for each cylinder. Each burst is 300-400 uS in duration. The time between firings is 700-750 uS. However, with each release of the four firings sequence the primary discharge is less that the preceding release. These four firings will take up to 3-4 mS to complete. The actual time the plug is firing is only (surprise, surprise) 1.5-1.6 mS.
This is the same time a good conventional inductive system fires a plug. The only difference between the two total times is that the MSD spreads the firing times over a wider total period of time. With the conventional inductive system on an engine running at 600 RPM and a total firing time of 1.5 mS, the engine would cover approximately 5.5 degrees of crank rotation. With the MSD it would take approximately 14.5 degrees of crank rotation for all the sparks to take place. MSD's theory is that if the first spark doesn't’t light it one of the following will. A problem sets up here because as a cylinder gets closer to TDC it requires more firing power than if it were fired at a point well before TDC. Another problem sets up as it requires a time period for cylinder pressure to build for best results. If the cylinder doesn't light on the first or second spark then the cylinder pressure builds too late. It has been reported that installing an MSD system on an OBDII equipped vehicle will set misfire codes under certain conditions.
With the advent of DIS, the number of times the coil has to fire on an V8 application was reduced from 4 fires per engine rev with a distributor based system to once for DIS. DIS, for the most part, obsoleted the RPM factor in coil rolloff
I still think for street type as well as many race apps (even turbo'd or blown) that DIS is really the way to go. The CD thing used to
carry a lot more merit when the kettering ignition systems were the only thing. It was a wonder they worked at all. When you get right down to it maybe those boys making motorcycles knew a little more than we think because the majority of them used a crude DIS setup. With todays engines one requires an ignition system that is capable of meeting the entire needs of that engine, especially when that engine is running on a tight fuel curve. All too many times in the past one had to run a richer mixture to overcome conditions and problems which could either be directly or indirectly related to an insufficient ignition system. The only way to meet those conditions to
supply enough kick to cover all those conditions, especially the maximum requirement conditions.
A CD system can't do that even if it were computer controlled because the control part is always after the fact."

That example is at only 600rpm. Imagine 6000rpm! Advantage DIS hands down!

3. No kidding. I've worked with MSD boxes before to quite some extent.

4. Again that's redundant. The stock PCM has "rev limiter" at 6750rpm already. Yet something else you obviously don't know anything about.

5. Why because a shop that either lied to sell a product or doesn't understand new car technology got you do waste your money on one? I think disreputable shops like that should shut their doors, but then again I'm sure the ignorant ricer crowd makes a lot of boat payments for them. Maybe I should start another side business???

6. Because in your post you state it "open up for more air and fuel." Maybe you should also read what you post as well.

7. You giving advice??? You must be kidding! You haven't even understood the basic questions and facts I started with, much less once I started getting a little technical. BTW - you again asked "Do you know what is in cats? If you did you wouldn't ask that question. " Again you can't even comprehend your own posts. BTW - running rich (what the Venom causes at part throttle - it doesn't affect WOT BTW) will trash your catalytic converters (cats & pre-cats)

8. Don't worry your little head. I don't take you seriously at all. It obvious by your lack of knowledge, your posts, and reluctance to give even just one straight answer to a simple question.

I just wanted to make sure others realized the troll you are so they wouldn't listen to the drivel you post. I'm done here unless you require more berating and technical beat down.

[lucky]

Thats nice that you can copy off a ignition box to sound like you know what your talking about. But my friend, if you were half as smart as you try to make yourself sound like you would know that msd only makes a dis system for our car. And if you want i can also copy what my ignition box says about the system, just to get up to your level. Uh, don't know what your car does, but mine stock DOES NOT SHUT OFF AT 6700rpm's!!!!!!! Once again you make me laugh, thanks! Key word today is RESEARCH!

[bnoon]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!:d rama:

The Venom 400 doing ANYTHING other than boosting part throttle feel would be a gift from God himself. You can get the same part throttle gains by advancing your TPS. Full throttle gains are nil, zip, zero, void, nadda, ZERO! Next...

Something Demon is waiting for you to mention about the MSD is that it takes a very special installation, along with two parts not included with the MSD purchase, to make it work with our special little high current Ford distributorless ignition boxes. Without these two special pieces, the MSD DIS 4 causes a hard code MIL, pulls timing, and reverts back to pre-programmed fuel tables. No need to look for these pieces in the instructions... they aren't there, yet MSD has known about them since 1999 when I bought one of the first DIS4's to hit the market. Gains? Not without it working properly... I think Demon is calling you out here... though the MSD box is a good purchase for SC'ed or turbo cars due to the occurance of spark blow out at high RPM.

The stock rev limiter is 6750. The Jet chip would have bumped it up perhaps... then you self impose a lower limit with the MSD box... How funny is that??? :rofl:

Also, let's talk some more about how the hybrid 3L swap (3L block with 2.5L heads) raises compression ratio... are you willing to talk heads??? :banghead:

[lucky]

Yes, you can get compression jumps off MILLING your heads, but not a significant amount! Unless you also shave your block. This i checked on w/ Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your car must have something wrong w/ it if it cuts out at 6700rpm. THIS IS FACT THAT THAT MINE DID NOT EVER CUT OUT AT 6700Rpm, even before the chip was added. Sorry for your misinformed info, this should be known since your a MODERATOR!

[PuckPuck]

1. 2.5L Heads on the 3.0L engine most definetely gives you 11+:1 compression.... this i can GUARANTEE YOU.... show me proof otherwise and i'll show you over 10 engines with it done already... you haven't done this so don't try and argue it.... if you would like to know WHY then i would be happy to explain

2. Take your 302/350 ways and throw them out the door.... first off thoses are v8 pushrod engines with 2 valves per cylinder... low revving heavy pieces of inefficient machinery.... WELCOME TO THE NEW AGE, where engines hitting 6K rpm in daily driving is regular stuff.... i myself am a big v8 pushrod guy, however most of my knowledge is nearly useless on theses engines

3. The ford ignition is A WASTED SPARK IGNITION SYSTEM.... meaning 2 sparks for each full cycle NOT 1 like you said... again get your **** straight....

4. Fooling the MAF WILL NOT dump more air into your engine.... if you had the knowledge you claim you do you would know this already, the only way to dump more air is to increase the velocity and volumes of your air passages

5. To make the MSD ignition system work you do need parts not offered by MSD, this has already been tried tested and trued....

6. Read the manual that came with your car.... REV LIMITER = 6750 RPM... now call up chip mfgs and ask them what the stock limiter is at

And now to bust your chops... I work for Ford and have access to far more information then you and your mechanics can ever dream of the more posts i read from you the more i figure you are an idiot... demonsvt, bnoon, myself, blackcoog, and many many many others here have all done or been witness to what we are talking about... YOU HAVEN'T so don't try and tell us we are wrong.... you my friend are just an idiot and starting to come off as a troll..... if you want info ask.... if you want to try and argue with thoses who have been there done that, LEAVE!!!

[PuckPuck]

oh and btw... i would highly recommend you remove your unothodox pulley.... of course you are a mechanic so you should also know that our crank pulleys have an integrated harmonic balancer... and since you are so well into the knowledge of ford with your mechanics you should also know that ford has changed this to a dual mode harmonic balancer.... and since you know so much you can pick up that unorthodox pulley and see just by looking at it there is no built in harmonic balancer.....

now since you claim to have a 7k limiter, please hit and and hit it often.... before you know it, you'll spin a few bearings..... have fun....

[FastCougar]

I would just like to add that your message board alias "lucky" is pretty fitting ... with the way that you talk down to people, you will be lucky if we help you and considering your tantrums in other posts, you are lucky that we haven't kicked you to the curb yet. Everyone that has replied to your posts know what they are talking about from experience, not theory, experience.

DIS system - Leo Capaldi uses the stock ignition from the box to the wires in his highly modified SVT equipped racing Cougar (#68 Speed World Challege (http://www.world-challenge.com/2002/standings-tc.html) - finished 2002 season 23rd out of 78 ... only domestic in the series and has no factory support). Good enough for Leo, good enough for anyone. StreetFlight integrates their turbo with this system as does Vortec with their Supercharger. Anyone who knows differently, please speak up ... unlike some here, I don't like spewing incorrect information and will accept the fact that I could be wrong.

[DemonSVT]

Okay I've check out the Ignition post now too lucky.

Still looks as if you are the consummate ignorant moron. It's just now you are getting kicked to the curb with facts and experience by several respective and knowledgeable members.

Is that what you wanted me to see. :slap: :biggrin:

Hey; I was having fun doing it by myself, but the more the merrier I always say... :banana:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. Yes, you can get compression jumps off MILLING your heads, but not a significant amount!
2. Unless you also shave your block.
3. This i checked on w/ Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. Your car must have something wrong w/ it if it cuts out at 6700rpm.
5. THIS IS FACT THAT THAT MINE DID NOT EVER CUT OUT AT 6700Rpm, even before the chip was added.
6. Sorry for your misinformed info, this should be known since your a MODERATOR!

Couldn't resist myself folks... :biggrin:

1. No kidding! What an novel idea
2. Milling the block custom_images/emoticons/shocked.gif bwahahaha.... You can deck the block for straightness, but you most definitely DO NOT mill the block!
BTW - Doing either 1 or 2 on an OHC engine can have nasty effects on the timing chain. As in making it too long! There is only a small finite amount of play the tensioners can take out of it. This isn't like working on old Pushrod engines where the cam and crank are both in the block!
3. Even more utter BS :rolleyes:
4. No. Factory rev limiter at 6750rpm on all standard Duratecs! This is a FACT!
5. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. w3rd yo.
6. So it's misinformation that the 3L cylinder heads have a smaller chamber size then the 2.5L cylinder heads and thus raise compression to a hair over 11.2 to 1. Oh wait! IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THEY HAVE SMALLER CHAMBER SIZES!!! It's even listed in the Ford Factory Service Manuals too. Damn them for being wrong about everything! :rolleyes:

Man I had really hoped you tried to jump Brad's post, but this is more than I could have hoped for. What a fool!

BTW - I notice no mention about the MSD parts and install either. Surprising you had NO CLUE (okay no it wasn't) it wasn't a simple plug & play deal.

Cut your loses and run boy.

[lucky]

You cant be a mechanic if you haven't heard a shaving the block moron. This has been done for many of years. AND, when i was talking compression jumps i was referring to large jumps in compression by swapping svt heads to my 2.5 l block, not just Ford motors but ALL motors. I really cant take anything you say seriously EVEN if you do work at Ford, our Ford mechanics in Eaton Ohio are just guys off the street that say they know what they are doing, like you. Unless you are a master mechanic i rest my case w/ this one.
Hmm, dis wont work on my car. Well dums@#$ mine works, maybe you need to go back to mechanics school. And even if the Dis didn't work they would be lawsuits left and right.
Quote " This system maximizes your vehicles distributorless ignition" These capacitive discharge ignitions feature multi-channel capability complemented w/multiple sparks, rev limiters and timing controls. The MSD DIS ignitions saturate each coil pack w/ 470 volts and up to 115 millijoules of spark energy creating more efficient combustion to produce more power (pending on mods). Throttle response is improved due to series of powerful multiple sparks that last for 20 deg of crankshaft rotation." The part # is bfm04f01 b2; look it up doof!
Since you Know all how come my 350 small block runs to 6200 rpms. Might want to read up before speaking. I should know since i built it.
I thought we were done w/ the Venom thing when i said its been to long since ive talked about to remember exactly how it works. But you guys want to keep bringing it up like thats the only thing you can win at. Drop it.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: lucky
1. You cant be a mechanic if you haven't heard a shaving the block moron. This has been done for many of years.
2. when i was talking compression jumps i was referring to large jumps in compression by swapping svt heads to my 2.5 l block
3. not just Ford motors but ALL motors.
4, I really cant take anything you say seriously EVEN if you do work at Ford, our Ford mechanics in Eaton Ohio are just guys off the street that say they know what they are doing, like you.
5. Unless you are a master mechanic i rest my case w/ this one.
6. Hmm, dis wont work on my car. Well dums@#$ mine works, maybe you need to go back to mechanics school. And even if the Dis didn't work they would be lawsuits left and right.
7. Quote " This system maximizes your vehicles distributorless ignition" These capacitive discharge ignitions feature multi-channel capability complemented w/multiple sparks, rev limiters and timing controls. The MSD DIS ignitions saturate each coil pack w/ 470 volts and up to 115 millijoules of spark energy creating more efficient combustion to produce more power (pending on mods). Throttle response is improved due to series of powerful multiple sparks that last for 20 deg of crankshaft rotation." The part # is bfm04f01 b2; look it up doof!
8. Since you Know all how come my 350 small block runs to 6200 rpms. Might want to read up before speaking. I should know since i built it.

1. Shaving the block! I already said zero decking the block was done, but shaving the block is not. (I.E. pistons suddenly extend past the top of the cylinder bore!) Did you forget to read to entire part about OHC engines! Not surprising considering you can't fathom a clue as to most of what is going on anyway; otherwise you would have cut & run long ago. We're just having fun with you since it's obvious you are just a typical ignorant troll boy.

2. Again your ignorance shows. The normal 2.5 & SVT 2.5 have the exact same cylinder head chamber size. The compression increase on the SVT's is done with domed pistons.
BTW - your original comment WAS about the 3L hybrid
"The place i read up on it said that the 3.0 short block (brand new) would only cost $1200. This will bolt on to my existing 2.5 heads. Fyi, heads generally will not bump your compression up, pistons (flat top) will do the big compression jump. "

Can't even remember his own posts & he started this entire thread too. :rolleyes:

While I'm having fun trolling let me pick apart that quote too.

You can get a new longblock (that's an entire engine BTW) from FORD for $1200. (your sources suck, but that's a given by now)
Heads can change CR a lot. It all depends on the chamber size. Saying heads don't "generally" change CR is plain ignorant. (I'll even throw you a bone here - How many different stock SBC heads and subsequent chamber sizes are there?)
Stock pistons ARE flat top. The SVT uses domed pistons to raise compression. (rehash from #2 again)
As usual you grammar isn't even the level of a 5th grader. The intelligence level you have shown is far below that.

3. Again you are just uttering gibberish to feel important

4. I don't work at Ford. That was the other gentleman's post. Again with the simple reading problems.

5. I was an ASE certified master tech (now I wrench on my own time!) and also have a nice shiny diploma saying I studied for such as well. (I seem to remember stating the latter in another of my posts - see the reading problems again)

6. The car comes STOCK with a DIS type ignition. I told YOU that on several occasions when you were telling me you installed a Capacitive Discharge MSD box on you car! Only in the last couple posts did you change your story to say it's a DIS coil pack you installed. (Let's also not forget you had no idea that the MSD DIS setup required several other components to even work!)

7. Wow I can quote a marketing statement too. Marketing sells products! Real life data & facts tell the truth. That's like believing a Ram Air Firebird really has "Ram Air" BTW - before you stick your foot in your mouth for the umpteenth time - Ram air takes a decreasing intake inlet which is 100% sealed to the TB and speeds above 140mph to even generate any positive pressure.

8. Your small block runs to 6200rpm. Yippee. What was that trying to prove again? Let me guess. Just more of your deflecting actions because you have not a leg to stand on nor a brain to defend yourself with. BTW - I highly doubt you built it since this imaginary engine supposedly runs.

[FastCougar]

Everyone please read: this (http://www.mohrperformance.com/cont_brc.htm). Also, don't feed the trolls :banghead:

[lucky]

Shaving/zero decking, hmm. I run, program, and setup Haas vertical cnc machining centers also Kellenberger horizontal centers and Fadal 4020 vertical centers, and those two words are the same. Just to see your intelligence since your a master mechanic dicifer this below. And if you are the big mechanic can you use a cad system. Also a master mechanic makes alot of money, why would you not use it, i think your full of it.

T13 M6 X0Y0 G1 H13 Z3.0
X3.5253 G1 F150. Z1.0
I-.5Y0.0 G2 Z-.150
I-3.5253 G3 F25.
X-1.0 Y0.0 G1 F50.
X0Y0 Z3.0 G0
M5 M6
M0

Now, this is very simple to decifer if your that big mechanic. But if you want to get nice and difficult and find out how to machine a head/block or ANYTHING let me know smarty. You may want to back off a tad because i hope there are a few people out there that feel the same about your ignorance. And also, if you would like i can send you pictures of my 5 cars i own and work on. As a matter of fact im pulling the motor out of my restored 1961 MGA 1600 roadster and replacing it w/ a Volvo 5 cylinder, or how about a picture of my 1941 ground up restored Cadillac w/ the original flat top V8, or my 1971 long bed truck that has MY BUILT 350 in it. Or my 1998 Ford Taurus that i have begun messing w/ (w/ my wifes permission).

[MileHighCougar]

Trust me Demon and Brad are highly respected for their knowledge on this forum so I would say 99.9% of everyone reading this knows you are the ignorant one!!

[DemonSVT]

I see you ignored all my questions again.

Why not just try some of the simple ones. I know the harder ones have large words in them so I won't task you too much with them. :rolleyes:

Heck why not answer even just ONE pertinent QUESTION instead of your usual deflection tactics???

BTW - the formatting looks off, but I would say grid coordinates, length, & depth for a CNC machine. I will be the first to say I don't have a lot of experience with them. Not too many shops have the couple hundred grand to spend on them. Most just use the calibrated wheel & dial machines & good old fashioned hands on placement.

[RodneyBur]

Originally posted by: bnoon
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!:d rama:


The stock rev limiter is 6750. The Jet chip would have bumped it up perhaps... then you self impose a lower limit with the MSD box... How funny is that??? :rofl:



Hmm. Is that even on manual trans? I have had my car up to 8000 rpms wat too many times. How come my car does not have a rev limiter at 6750 rpm's? I have a 2000.:bs:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: RodneyBur

Originally posted by: bnoon
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!:d rama:


The stock rev limiter is 6750. The Jet chip would have bumped it up perhaps... then you self impose a lower limit with the MSD box... How funny is that??? :rofl:



Hmm. Is that even on manual trans? I have had my car up to 8000 rpms wat too many times. How come my car does not have a rev limiter at 6750 rpm's? I have a 2000.:bs:

Because you are as full of BS as lucky is. We've already labeled you a troll (or on a nice day just balatantly ignorant) in the 3L forum.

http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=83&threadid=59526
http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=83&threadid=59608
http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=83&threadid=59703

So why not say your stock PCM has no rev limiter. You've already been proved ignorant several times over.

[RodneyBur]

Hey now no need to get rude with me. I am not full of sh*t. I have had my car up to 8000 rpm's several times while racing. I might not be the greatest mechanic or the most knowledgable, but I don't pretend either. I HAVE HAD MY CAR UP TO THE MAX RPMS THAT IS ON THE GUAGES. YOU ARE THE IGNORANT ONE FOR NOT BELIEVING ME HERE. IF I HAD A DIGITAL CAMERA I WOULD TAKE A PIC OF IT, BUT I DON"T.

If fact when I got that high it cuts out really bad, I don't know how to explain it. I want to put a rev limiter on it just to keep me from doing it. I had always wished it had one on it. If everyone else has one on theirs them how come mine don't??

[DemonSVT]

The only way you surpassed the stock preprogrammed rev limiter is by mechanically over revving the engine via a missed shift or premature downshift.

PCM's are not individually tuned so this type of error would not occur. They are flashed in groups all using the same code.

[RodneyBur]

Originally posted by: DemonSVT
The only way you surpassed the stock preprogrammed rev limiter is by mechanically over revving the engine via a missed shift or premature downshift.

PCM's are not individually tuned so this type of error would not occur. They are flashed in groups all using the same code.

Nope. In fact this happened to me the other night. I was trying to race a honda (he was revving up his engine at a red light, so I thought it was on, but guess not) and I stayed in first too long, BEFORE I EVEN TRIED TO SHIFT INTO SECOND, my car cut out at 8000rpms. This happened to me before while racing a gst eclipse. Someone told me something about detonation or something but I'm not sure what happened. I do know I could go outside right now, start my car and revv my car past the 7000 rpm mark at any time. I have no mods to my car, unless someone put some on before I bought it, which is possible I have not looked at anything on the car.

How can you argue with someone telling you that there car is different? If you want to send me a camera or a video recorder I would be happy to demonstrate it to you.

I'm just wondering why my car does this if there is a factory rev limiter on it.

[SlvrbULLetizmybaby]

LUCKY, you have some balls coming on here and calling puckpuck and demon and several others ignorant. They are highly respected people who HAVE DONE(not day dreaming about doing) many things to their cars. Also, I have never seen them be rude to ANYBODY before i read this post. And with the ignorant words you are polluting these boards with, I really dont blame them for blowing up on you. If you want to go ahead and do w/e you want, then do it. Go ahead and blow of several respected, knowledgeable people who were at first trying to help you from doing something stuiped. Give us a call when you blow ur motor.

about the rev limiter, ive banged out my 8,000 rpms before, but that cuz my girl friend knocked the shifter on my atx into d2 going 80mph. If you are really able to hit over 7000 just racing regardless of whether something wrong with your rev limiter or not, i would not do it, our engine internals are not made to handle that on a constant basis.


one more thing lucky, the thing is ur sig about creaming a modded gsr, that really irritates me. If u think a modded gsr is one with altezzas and rice muffler with a NOS sticker, then MAYBE you beat him by some fractions of a second. But any TRUELY modded gsr would piss on you. I have a friend with a turboed b18c1 that and a **** load of other mods that runs very low 13's. I doubt ur car even breaks into the 14's. And unlike you I dont like to make things up.

[RodneyBur]

Originally posted by: SlvrbULLetizmybaby

about the rev limiter, ive banged out my 8,000 rpms before, but that cuz my girl friend knocked the shifter on my atx into d2 going 80mph. If you are really able to hit over 7000 just racing regardless of whether something wrong with your rev limiter or not, i would not do it, our engine internals are not made to handle that on a constant basis.



I know it is not good, that is why I want a rev limiter. I was going to buy one, but since everyone is saying it is stock on my car I would like to get it working. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. Everytime I do it I get overly excited while racing and pay no attention to my revs.

[mcon99]

i love Trolls, they are so easy to make fun of

[PuckPuck]

Rodney - assuming you are telling the truth... i'll bet a buffalo nickel your tach guage is off..... to be absolutely positive go into Diag mode at startup and switch to the digital tach.... you should never see anything above 6750 there (unless you downshifted incorrectly)... there is a fuel and ignition cut off if our engines, and that's the horrible bog you hear/feel....

to get into diag mode... hold down UNITS and RESET.... start car while still holding down buttons. your guages will all peg and light up.... release RESET then release UNITS (must be performed in that order)... now his select a few times and you will see the digital RPM guage pop up... you can also find other neat info such as digital speedo, actual coolant temp, fuel injector pulses, trouble codes and other stuff....

[RodneyBur]

Thanks Puck Puck. Thats some really sweet stuff. If my tach is off, would it be off at idle also? Or could it just be off at higher RPM's?

[PuckPuck]

your guage cluster is mechanicle.... there can be 2 things i can think of that would screw it up.

The first the needle itself is on the tack pin incorrectly, in this case everything would be xxx rpm higher than reality

the next thing is the motor used to move the tach pin is bad and allows the needle to travel further than what it should...

[RodneyBur]

Well i did exactly what you said and it worked. I was in neytral and the car stuttered at around 6750 with slight fluctuations above and below. I should have tried to rev it up before I reset it, but I was to anxious and forgot. I don't know why it went above while I was racing but it did. It also didn't clunk out revving it up like when I was racing. While racing it was a big clunk and then nothing for a long second. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. I feel better now checking and testing it out though. Thanks.

[luckbfor]

Holy crap he is right!! Hey atleast i can admit this one! Yes this is lucky if you wandering.

[luckbfor]

Originally posted by: DemonSVT
Okay I've check out the Ignition post now too lucky.

Still looks as if you are the consummate ignorant moron. It's just now you are getting kicked to the curb with facts and experience by several respective and knowledgeable members.

Is that what you wanted me to see. :slap: :biggrin:

Hey; I was having fun doing it by myself, but the more the merrier I always say... :banana:

What question did i not answer???????????????????????????????????????????? ?? You were just insulting. And CNC machines are not that expensive, another way of showing your intelligence.

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: ignorant still
1. What question did i not answer??
2. And CNC machines are not that expensive
1. Any & every one I asked. (or anyone else asked for that matter) What about supplying even one indepth detail about any of the BS you claim. I asked for detailed explanations of how you did them (MSD, self programmable jet chip, etc) & what it took to do them. You didn't come up with even one answer for even the system stuff (first claiming you ran a Capacitive Discharge box - then changing to say you added DIS to your car which it came with STOCK) It is quite obvious you can't answer those because you are lying through your teeth.

2. I consider prices starting around $150,000 to be expensive. Especially compared to standard milling machines! Maybe your multi-million dollar business owning friends buy them once a week. :rolleyes: If you are touching them I can see that happening. :tongue:

I even asked you to put up or shut up. You still have not put up and even made another account (since your first was most likely banned because you are an idiot troll) to come back and still spout your same BS without any proof, details, and semblance of a clue what you are talking about.

...That's what... :rolleyes:

[GrandMasterKhan]

LUCKY i am sorry to say but you just got schooled by some of the most respected members of NECO. Your continued attempts to prove yourself only resulted you completely losing any creditably on these forums...im assuming thats why you changed your name to LUCKBFOR.

In addition, you never really replied to any of the questions presented to you. I must say that PuckPuck, DemonSVT, and Fastcougar, have now completely proved to everyone here on NECO that THEY KNOW WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT. They have my complete respect and i am glad they did not allow for misinformation.

i suggest you sitdown and shut up before everyone laughs you out.

:banhim:

[NorCalCoug]

Lucky, you're a tool. bnoon has been building and selling 3L duratecs and duratec hybrids for a while now. He builds them (or used to) all the time, I think he knows what he's talking about. Racers who drive the cars professional concur with PuckPuck, DemonSVT and bnoon. My personal suggestion is STFU. :)

I do have one question though; when I put my car in diag mode while driving (Yes, I have an ATX), I've gotten it to peg at 6840 at least six seperate ocassions, before it shifts into 2nd. I do not have a chip, and I don't know what could be wrong. Is the crank sensor FUBAR? Do I have a borked PCM? I was not manually shifting 4 of those 6 times, all were on flat, level ground (freeway) on cold nights. I also know that when the digital tach in diag mode reads ~6840 @ shift, the dash tach is at the 6750 hash right before 7k, and pings 7k as I'm already starting the next gear (tach lag, I know). Let me know if more data is needed; I'll find a nice night (when it stops raining) to test some more...

And I think people on this board can vouch for the fact that I'm not a troll. :tongue: Just a post ***** :tongue:

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: NorCalCoug
when I put my car in diag mode while driving (Yes, I have an ATX), I've gotten it to peg at 6840 at least six seperate ocassions, before it shifts into 2nd.

That is pretty surprising for an ATX.

The engine can still mechanically over rev the limiter by up to 1000rpm under full load. Even though the ignition and fuel are cut the engine's rotating parts still have enough momentum to spin faster for a very brief period of time.

[NorCalCoug]

Hrm, okay. It doesn't feel or sound like fuel cut though, but I suppose it's probably too brief for me to detect it. It doesn't have as much pull up that high, but the ATX gears are so tall that we're actually a little better off letting it run past peak HP just to drop us in a better rev range when the tranny upshifts. Idle should be around the 600-700 mark, right? As long as that's right, I suppose it's not a miscalibration of some sort, just centrifugal momentum taking its course. :)

[PuckPuck]

ligthen the flywheel then see how much you can overrev :)

demon is right... momentum will carry it, however you will feel a jerk as it's doing it....

[bnoon]

Originally posted by: lucky
Yes, you can get compression jumps off MILLING your heads, but not a significant amount! Unless you also shave your block. This i checked on w/ Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your car must have something wrong w/ it if it cuts out at 6700rpm. THIS IS FACT THAT THAT MINE DID NOT EVER CUT OUT AT 6700Rpm, even before the chip was added. Sorry for your misinformed info, this should be known since your a MODERATOR!

Compression ratio is figured by comparing the piston swept area to the compressed area at TDC. Using smaller chamber heads (the 2.5L heads) on a 3L block (stock heads are larger chamber) will bump the compression ratio up from 10:1 to 11.2:1, the math is all out there for you to figure it yourself. The volume of the 3L heads can be reduced enough to jump the compression ratio up by more than a full point, but then you have to worry about piston to valve clearance issues.

V1+V2+V3+V4 divided by V2+V3+V4 = uncorrected cr...

V1 = Swept volume of the piston in the bore ( Pi x R squared (of the bore) mutiplied by the stroke)

V2 = volume above the top piston ring

V3 = compressed volume of the head gasket

V4 = volume of the combustion chambers

Reducing any of the V2, V3, or V4 numbers jumps the cr. It doesn't take much to bump the compression of a very tight engine like the Duratec. A few cc's here can mean a full point or more jump in compression, where as on a small block would mean half a point or less. Shall we go into more detail???

[NorCalCoug]

Originally posted by: PuckPuck
ligthen the flywheel then see how much you can overrev :)

demon is right... momentum will carry it, however you will feel a jerk as it's doing it....

I have an ATX. ;)

[luckbfor]

Originally posted by: GrandMasterKhan
LUCKY i am sorry to say but you just got schooled by some of the most respected members of NECO. Your continued attempts to prove yourself only resulted you completely losing any creditably on these forums...im assuming thats why you changed your name to LUCKBFOR.

In addition, you never really replied to any of the questions presented to you. I must say that PuckPuck, DemonSVT, and Fastcougar, have now completely proved to everyone here on NECO that THEY KNOW WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT. They have my complete respect and i am glad they did not allow for misinformation.

i suggest you sitdown and shut up before everyone laughs you out.

:banhim:


Read the ecu forum, schooled who? You guys just have a good way of getting wanted info cheaply. And rudely.

[ShadowCougar]

custom_images/emoticons/shocked.gif Damn!!! I stop reading this topic for a few days and it turned into troll-fest... :rolleyes:

Guys, I hope I'm never like this when I ask for your help on performance related topics... just :slap: me if I ever do something trollish (humm... nt sure if that's a word).

Gus.

[luckbfor]

I give , you win!:flushed:

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: NorCalCoug

Originally posted by: PuckPuck
ligthen the flywheel then see how much you can overrev :)

demon is right... momentum will carry it, however you will feel a jerk as it's doing it....

I have an ATX. ;)


"D'oh"... i knew that too :)

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: luckbfor

Originally posted by: GrandMasterKhan
LUCKY i am sorry to say but you just got schooled by some of the most respected members of NECO. Your continued attempts to prove yourself only resulted you completely losing any creditably on these forums...im assuming thats why you changed your name to LUCKBFOR.

In addition, you never really replied to any of the questions presented to you. I must say that PuckPuck, DemonSVT, and Fastcougar, have now completely proved to everyone here on NECO that THEY KNOW WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT. They have my complete respect and i am glad they did not allow for misinformation.

i suggest you sitdown and shut up before everyone laughs you out.

:banhim:


Read the ecu forum, schooled who? You guys just have a good way of getting wanted info cheaply. And rudely.


umm... not exactly... unless you work for EEC Tuner/SC Tuner i highly doubt it... you are trying to program an EEC V chip using EEC IV software.... i doubt you even changed one setting in your car succesfully... the only thing you did was prolly change and address used by EEC IV however used for perhaps controlling the A/C on the EEC V chip... what you don't understand is that unless you know the layout and exact position (in hex) of where the air/fuel maps are stored, where the ignition maps are stored, etc as well as how to modify some logic in order to have the ecu use those maps differently... well in order to do all that you must know where in the 70000 lines of HEX code this is located...

also in your other thread i now VERY MUCH question your computer literacy... you made the comment: "Read only files are the easiest to read"... i'm sorry but that has just got to be as stupid as the person who can't find the "Any Key"... any file is just as easy to read as any other file.... making sense of the data stored (especially when encrypted, then in a proprietary format in terms of layout, and just for kicks stored as hex code) is the hard part.....

so now the question is.... WHO schooled who?

[luckbfor]

And your a computer wiz.:rofl: What i meant was you can do more to a read only file than just READING IT. Im talking about downloading uploading changing it what ever! Computer language is computer language, a computer is going to be able to decipher it. Like i said in the other forum, you may want to surf the net just a tad bit more. Check out hackspider. You can do anything to a computer if you have the knowledge, which i have said befor i dont my friend Shannan does.:disgust:

[luckbfor]

Quote from sctuner, "Depending on the calibration file selected, EEC IV OR EEC V, you will be promted to open either one or to file." Sounds like they are dealing w/ both to me!!!

[DemonSVT]

Originally posted by: luckbfor
Quote from sctuner, "Depending on the calibration file selected, EEC IV OR EEC V, you will be promted to open either one or to file." Sounds like they are dealing w/ both to me!!!

Correct. They have done EEC-V on the 4.6L (4.6L was the first OBD-II Ford engine even in EEC-IV so that sped up the process)
However their EEC-V is still not complete (when is it :biggrin: ), but it is open to the public. Also that covers but just a couple processor strategies!

Just because they cracked one processor strategy does not mean they have cracked them all. Tweecer has only cracked around 30 different processor strategies to date. (largest coverage IIRC) Almost all of them, of course, are EEC-IV. The number of different strategies is immense!

To top that off. The Cougar and most 00 Contiques use an even newer style PCM then the older EEC-V's.

It's never a one size fits all world & believing such is just ignorant.

[SlvrbULLetizmybaby]

*motions to have this thread locked as to avoid having lucky further pollute the boards with further nonsense.:banhim:

[PuckPuck]

Originally posted by: SlvrbULLetizmybaby
*motions to have this thread locked as to avoid having lucky further pollute the boards with further nonsense.:banhim:

i second you....

[Faboo]

;) I think luckbfor has been really screwed over ever since he got here....true he might have some bad info, but he is still just one man

:slap:

Sorry felt bad for the guy...and i'm on his side:banhim:..yeah i know...but remember, he said "i'm from the old school"
Now everyone play nice :rolleyes:

[MileHighCougar]

Why in the world would we play nice with some idiot who comes on here and insults some of the most respected and knowledgeable people on the boards!! I don't care what "school" he comes from new or old he is a troll and needs to learn his boundaries!!! He hasn't been screwed over, he brought everything on himself!!

[NorCalCoug]

:banhim:

[GrandMasterKhan]

:banhim: