Not impressed with RSX S

[bigbudman]

I was out on the local track yesterday. I went down for open track racing.....turns out it is more like a school....teaching us how to race. Well.....when we finally get on the track....I start behind this 2002 RSX S trim w/ MTX. Only thing he had done was ground force coil overs. There was like 5 other cars besides us on a 3/4 mile long track (beginners track). We do our pace laps and then go hot. My ATX was keepin with him through the corners and catchin him on the short straight. I never passed him because my brakes started to fade real quick and i had to slow down sooner to turn. 10 mins of balls to the wall racing.....my stock kitty can't handle it. Also out there was a nice SVT Contour that whooped my ass. I now know that I need to really tighten up my suspension...get new tires/rims, and pray like hell for a shift kit. Thats the main thing that killed me. The fact that I cant really accelerate out of a turn unless I can keep the RPM's around 4000 or so. But a stock Cougar handles pretty damn well when pushed to the limit. One more thing.....a 99 Integra with intake/exhaust/rims/tires couldnt catch me. I think it had a VTEC too, not sure though. All in all.....the best day of my life. I recommend this to everyone that is serious about racing.....if your local track offers it. You will learn the limits of your car......and you arent endangering the lives of other people on the road.....just the ones on the track.

damn did I stray off topic

[GuidoThePenguin]

I'd say try your hand at the SCCA Solo-II autocrossing, but being in Hawaii, it maybe hard to find a local chapter.

As far as the VTEC Integras, there's one here locally I've raced at the autocross, and I always beat him, sometimes by 2 or more seconds.

Haven't gotten an RSX out there, but am waiting for one.

Good kills all together.

[bigbudman]

Whats SCCA Solo II? I know the guy teaching us has the best time on the track I reaced on with a modified 911 Turbo. He's also SCCA licensed

[ZERO]

i wanna race a track like that, i think i'll be able to hold my own. the other day i kinda drifted a corner or sumthin, i just know i was in a controlled slide almost sideways and got mad power comin out of it (i got an atx too) i'd rather race like that than do the wuarter mile stuff anyways, its way more interesting and you'll find out who can really pilot their machine best out there.

educate or destroy-ZERO™

[GuidoThePenguin]

SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) which hosts the SOLO-II (http://www.scca.org)

Usually the local SCCA chapter will have info on local racetracks that you can run at.

[yakkosmurf]

I test drove the RSX-S. It had decent power and the interior was nice. The shifter and steering wheel were first rate. The handling flat out sucked. Better than a GSR, but I wasn't impressed.

[Black97SH]

I'd have to disagree with you on the handling. I've driven a Type S and it's under-tired. Outside of that, I couldn't think of why it was so slow. If not, check out clubrsx.com and ask around what they think. Not an attack, just want people to be informed.

[dv6cougar]

just to let you know. an rsx type s would kill any moderate cougar with i/e/h without any hesitation. it peaks out at 200 hp which you may have made up for with i/e/h but with it's peak redline being at 7900 or whatever it is and the car weighing a lot less us it's not possible and an automatic cougar at that, the type s driving must be a ****ty driving cause a friend of mine has one he can take a turn 90 degrees on the street going like 45 with no problem. I don't like the type s personally the exterior look is horrible and the price is tag is one to boot but a stock cougar vs a stock rsx type s the type s tears the cougars balls off. no offense to anyone just figured i would make a point.

[mprtklr]

damn your so intelligent, thanks for stating the obvious.


few flaws however.

the RSX is NOT that much lighter, 2700 compared to my 2880 MTX Coug. a 180 pounds is not a lot to a car. and peak means nothin. the cars provides less torque, so you have to flog the hell out of it to get the power, down below 6500, its a nice little honda coupe. and "kill" is somewhat of an overstatment, 6.8 0-60 compared to a stock 7.2 for a cougar? i doubt thats a "kill"

[Andy]

<< an rsx type s would kill any moderate cougar with i/e/h without any hesitation. >>



I doubt that.
A 2.5 MTX with I/H/E should be about equal to the RSX Type-S. I think that race would fall more to driver skill.

[Fett]

Hrmmm, your friend can make 90 degree turns at 45MPH. That's interesting....physically impossible, but interesting none the less.

[Frank]

--------------------------------------
"an rsx type s would kill any moderate cougar with i/e/h without any hesitation. "
--------------------------------------


Is that so? Is one of those faster than a Prelude VTEC 5-spd?

See, I have a Cougar with I/H/E and some other stuff, and I smoked a newer Prelude about 10 minutes ago. Twice. Bad. Real bad. And that's with an automagical transmission.

[Andy]

Sweet;)

Nice kill Frank:)

[Frank]

Thanks! Gotta let these Honda owners know who their daddy is, y'know... :biggrin:

[mprtklr]

i missed that part about taking a 90 degree turn at 45mph!!!

wow, i must have been gone the day they taught us about centrifigual force in my physics class!

the tires on the RSX are michelin 205-50-16 sedan tires, not high performance tires, basic cheap OEM tires. the handling was LESS than a type R according to MT. Also the slalom speed of the cougar was greater than a Type R. so therefore, the stock cougar will OUTPERFORM a stock RSX. basic, simple as that.

[thepigpen]

Having owned the V6 Cougar, all I can say is that the RSX (Canadian base model) out handles a stock Cougar any day.

A stock Cougar is more of a match to the base (and Premium models.. &lt;available in Canada only&gt;..)

here's my post about this from a few months ago:

Results (http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/arcmessageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=17814&highlight_key=y)

[NorCalCoug]

I admire a vehicle that's fast and/or handles well, I truly do. But I don't like the fact that nowadays, most of the super-fast cars at a price range within reach of most people (AKA, not a SuperCar) are.. well... foooooogly. Ugly to the point where it hurts to look at'm. The RSX is one of those cars, along with the WRX, the Camaro Z28, and a few others... I prefer a damn good looking car with decent power to a super-fast car that I would frown at everytime I look at it in my garage....










But I'm a picky bastard. Don't listen to me. :biggrin:

[thepigpen]

The RSX ain't a bad looking car.... but on the other hand, the WRX is FUGLY....

not to flame or anything, but the interior of the RSX destroy's that of the Cougar... The cougar (well, mine atleast) felt like cheap plastic, the fit and finish was horrible, the seats were crappy.... and to top that off, the car was a lemon... it was in the shop more often then I drove it.

My Cougar had over 20 pages of work order history at 13000 Km (in 6 months)... My RSX is 4 months old and has 12 000 Km. The only work order written up for it was for an oil change (which was free)... and I drive the crap out of the car :)

But in terms of original design (with good taste that is), the Cougar wins hands down... Too bad Ford can't match the fit-and-finish or reliability of Acura (My family and I have owned many Ford cars.... this is my first import... )

And about cost... the RSX was a little more expensive then my Cougar... but when I traded the Cougar in, I lost quite a bit... I bet I can still sell my RSX for what I paid for it in about a year....

[yakkosmurf]

<< damn your so intelligent, thanks for stating the obvious.


few flaws however.

the RSX is NOT that much lighter, 2700 compared to my 2880 MTX Coug. a 180 pounds is not a lot to a car. and peak means nothin. the cars provides less torque, so you have to flog the hell out of it to get the power, down below 6500, its a nice little honda coupe. and "kill" is somewhat of an overstatment, 6.8 0-60 compared to a stock 7.2 for a cougar? i doubt thats a "kill" >>


What will make it a kill is after the 60 mph mark. If you end the quartermile around 90, the RSX-S will put a lot more distance on the V6 Cougar from 60-90 because of its superior pull at high rpm. That will make it ugly, and I would consider a kill.

[yakkosmurf]

<< Thanks! Gotta let these Honda owners know who their daddy is, y'know... :biggrin: >>


Excuse me. Been to the 14s yet?

[Andy]

<< the RSX-S will put a lot more distance on the V6 Cougar from 60-90 because of its superior pull at high rpm. >>



A stock V-6 Cougar.....I/H/E have to be taken into account. Then it is a even matchup.:)

[Frank]

&lt;&lt; Excuse me. Been to the 14s yet? &gt;&gt;

Yer excused, but I've never even been to the track. BUT... This is the Cougar board, and I'm poking fun at Honda's... I don't see the problem ;)

[yakkosmurf]

<< &lt;&lt; Excuse me. Been to the 14s yet? &gt;&gt;

Yer excused, but I've never even been to the track. BUT... This is the Cougar board, and I'm poking fun at Honda's... I don't see the problem ;) >>


I guess if you can't be fast, you can at least pick at those who are. ;)

[NorCalCoug]

Yeah! Like that new Bugatti Veryon! I mean, come in! Please! 0-186 in 14 seconds? That's nothing! quad-turbo, 1001HP W-16 engine? Big whooop! :biggrin:

[Frank]

"guess if you can't be fast, you can at least pick at those who are. "

Fast? Don't go changing the subject, we were talking about Hondas... ;)

[yakkosmurf]

<< "guess if you can't be fast, you can at least pick at those who are. "

Fast? Don't go changing the subject, we were talking about Hondas... ;) >>


Well I certainly wasn't chaging the subject to Cougars.

[Q]

Its funny this topic is existing. I just came from a racing night, about 15 - 20 vehicles all in all tonight.
There were 2 RSXs, one was an S... and I have to tell you they both did horrible. The driver who had the S was a decent driver, he had an older model prelude before he got the RSX and used to rip assholes a lot.

Anyway, here's my track sheet for the night...

vs Celica GTS and Civic Si - GTS first by a tip, Si was way behind
vs Accord V6 (2k I think) and an older Prelude - Me 1st, Prelude 2nd, Accord 3rd.
vs RSX-S, Celica GTS - Celica 1st, Me 2nd, RSX-S third
vs Probe GT, V6 Mustang (99) - me First, forgot who came in behind, they were neck and neck
vs Celica GTS, Eclipse GST (below 99) - Eclipse 1st, me 2nd, Celica 3rd


The Celica had some nice modifications, I have to say, and as much as I hate Celicas, he was a pretty good driver. I could hear in his engine that he would change his techniques every time I raced him.
I wanted to race the RSX-S again, but he left early after a few races. And there was a Cavalier Z24 that was smoking everyone to my surprise, that I also didn't get to race. All in all a good night, but just to confirm, the RSX's I have gone up against were not as impressive as the Integras of old. Thats just my opinion

[yakkosmurf]

The RSX Type S is definitely a better performer in stock trim than the GSR was. It's no Type R though. The RSX aftermarket is still coming out, however. Give it time and it should easily surpass the modified GSRs.

[Black97SH]

<< --------------------------------------
"an rsx type s would kill any moderate cougar with i/e/h without any hesitation. "
--------------------------------------


Is that so? Is one of those faster than a Prelude VTEC 5-spd?

See, I have a Cougar with I/H/E and some other stuff, and I smoked a newer Prelude about 10 minutes ago. Twice. Bad. Real bad. And that's with an automagical transmission. >>




I'm not going to argue with you about your kill on that Prelude, but I'd have to say with a GOOD driver there's no way you will "smoke" a Prelude. Depending on the year, it has either 195 or 200 HP with about the same weight. The 7 hp gain from your bolt-ons won't make up for that.

[Frank]

7hp? Try over 30hp at wheels, dyno tested.

[Brandon]

yakkosmurf-I've been to the 14's so what's that suppose to mean...oh yeah an I was an Automatic.?

[Black97SH]

Alright, normally I wouldn't even dignify that answer with a response, but if you can prove it with some dyno sheets I'll beleive it. Until then, I'm sure not only me, but a lot of people (with a brain) on this board know that is BS. 30 whp with some bolt-ons? You know how ridiculous that sounds? I think that's a pretty ricey thing to say. Besides that, how does a car with similar hp #s (after your astonishing gains) and not that much of weight difference, I still dont see you smoking a prelude.

[SpruceCougar]

Well I cant talk much on belalf of Frank with timeslips...but I do know he has one of the fastest N/A ATX Cougars on this board. As far as able to smoke a prelude I can vouch for that. I smoked a 2000 prelude VTEC with a MTX with my Cougar MTX (no I'm not stock..and neither was he unless you count his 5 inch fart tip). My car runs just as fast as a cougar MTX with headers, some cars take better to mods than others. You're also forgetting about torque, which is something that Cougars make more of than a Prelude.

Brandon, no offense it's great that you've reached the 14's...but using NOS to do that is no big deal. I should be reaching 14's N/A pretty soon though.

[CougarKontrol]

RSX-s is a good car. There is one on my street, and we go out to tear up the twisties all the time. I would say they're pretty equally matched(cougar-RSX) but they don't handle nearly as well as the cougar (or maybe i just drive better). There is this super road on a hill for practicing handling techniques and I pretty much end up first at the bottom it. I haven't been to the track yet but he'd probably beat me. Oh yeah I've got a stock MTX.

[Black97SH]

Well, responding to mods well is one thing, but 30 WHP...that's truly insane. I don't doubt anyone in a Cougar being able to beat a Prelude. But, car for car...the prelude is faster. I looked up some numbers too.
Prelude Prelude sh
2954-3009 lbs 3042 lbs.
156 lbft/195-200 hp 156 lbft/195-200 hp

Cougar V6
about 3000-3200 lbs.
165 lbft/170 hp

So, you see..similar weight#s and the 9lbft does not make up for all that hp (30) -
even with the 30 hp gain its still so close, it's a drivers race. See my point? Not bagging
on cougars, just an observation.

ps. I've never lost to a Cougar myself, dunno about specs on them though, so could be a i4
for all I know.

[Frank]

I love it when people try to rewrite history. I don't have to prove anything to you, Black97SH. I've dynoed in the presence of 10-15 other NECO members last summer, and I intend on going back this winter to see how much farther my car has come since then.

And that was 30hp at the wheels, not at the crank.

[Furious1]

BLACK97SH, Intake, Headers and Exhaust is good for 20-30 HP gains on a Cougar. Should be at the crank, but some cars respond better than others. Dont forget FRANK also ported his MAF/TB/UIM. We get on avg. 8 HP from I/E alone, I believe at the wheels, cant remember.

I agree with the numbers, but not on the street. I raced from 30-80 a now friend of mine with a 195 HP VTEC Lude and it was an even match. I didnt pull and neither did he. Dont know why. Good straight away, just pedal to the metal. I only had an intake at the time. Oh, and some Cougars weigh around 2900 lbs-options/tranny. Personally, I feel any NA I4 suffers down low on the RPM's(stock). The Cougar pulls pretty good down low and after 3500-4000.



As far as what this thread is about...I like the RSX-S for its exterior (specially blue)and aftermarket potential...not too impressed with interior though...maybe I lookedf at a cheap one...didnt have leather...havent driven one yet...

[Black97SH]

Whatever, this is stupid. I don't even know why I bother...and Frank, I know it's to the wheels that's why it's so ridiculous. My point on the hp #s was to show even with 30 more whp it's still not all that big a difference. Either way I think it's BS until I see some actual facts, or "history". I guess the Cougar is the ultimate tuner car for it's price with numbers like that you should be into 13s soon.

Those #s for weight were from mercury and honda.

[Furious1]

Yeah, its kinda pointless to argue this here...should be be argued on the street...but your forgetting other things as important as HP/weight...tranny and gear ratios make a diff...so do drivers...just because you have more HP and weigh about the same doesnt mean you're gonna win...

[NorCalCoug]

Who cares! The RSX is still ugly, and there ain't nothin' gonna change that! :) It looks like a Prelude went and slept with a Focus, then the baby went to the GAP for Acura. :tongue:

Just my opinion. Again. :)

[Furious1]

Well, when I 1st saw the RSX, I thought it was a cheap rip off from the BMW headlights thing. You know, the little dip on them. And it kinda looked like an Integra, just boxed up a little. Then I looked at one with a suspension and GFX and I started to see things a little differently...still havent seen an interior on them that matches the Cougar's though. Either way, I like them. If I were to get rid of my Cougar right now, I'd probably get the RSX-S...metallic blue...if I can afford it, that is...they're a little pricey.

[Black97SH]

Agree, street is street and paper doesn't mean sh*t. (for reference though, I think a lude has sportier gearing if I remember right) anyway, if you drive a Type-S it's a very fun car. Maybe the exterior isn't for everyone, but the Type-s interior is awesome looking. From the guages and rubbery knobs to the seats and mats, I think it blows away almost all in its class! Never seen a base inside, but I hear it's not all that great.

[Frank]

I'd say that's a fair assessment of it. The interior is much more Acura and much less Honda than the old Integra. Performance-wise, I've never raced a Type-S, but I had no trouble at all with the base model. Considerable difference between the two, I know.

[yakkosmurf]

<<

Brandon, no offense it's great that you've reached the 14's...but using NOS to do that is no big deal. >>


Agreed. Kias can hit 14s with NOS. Seen it happen.

[yakkosmurf]

<< Who cares! The RSX is still ugly, and there ain't nothin' gonna change that! >>


Agreed.

[Rikenbomb]

Let's not forget the price tag associated with each vehicle. Let's take a fully loaded Cougar MTX. The Cougar would be around $20-21K, depending on how well negotations went and a fully loaded RSX and a Type R 'tegra $24-25K. Now if I were to dump as much money into my car with performance parts as you did for your car stock, I would stand a fairly decent chance against you, prolly beat you. Want me to add up the mods? I'm not starting a war just stating some facts. Heck if I spent as much as you did, my car better go that fast. ;)

[yakkosmurf]

Ok, what mods do you want for $3k? SC...turbo? Any idea of what you can get for $3k installed? Let's leave out nitrous since that only works for short bursts in a straight line.

[Raben]

Hmmm the RSX type S. Well here some editors of Edmunds.Com reviews over the cougar and RSX. Draw your own conclusions. btw this came from their article on sport coup comparision test 2001-2002. Edmunds Review (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47901/article.html)

I've never driven one but from their review seems the RSX-S is a impressive car. 1st placed compared to Cougar being 6ths (last).

I love the cougars handling though. My only beef is the power and problems. (IE, 2001, spent over $4500 in repairs alone! cat converters, flywheel, fuel pumps and more.) But she's lasted over 112K miles and still kicking.


Cougar
Editor-in-Chief Karl Brauer says:
This was my least favorite of the sport coupes, which is tough for me to say because I liked the Cougar more than I expected. It was proof that an SVT version would have been very cool indeed. The styling works, the seats are comfortable and supportive, and the steering provides the right amount of weighting. Even the shifter and suspension worked, though the car's heavy nature caused it to roll and plow in the corners more easily than I'd prefer.

What really hurt the Cougar was its engine performance. For a V6, it lacked the sort of mid-range and high-rpm punch I expect from a sport coupe, though strong low-end torque was appreciated. As I said, an SVT version with more horsepower and a stiffer suspension would have solved the vehicle's main problems, putting it much higher on my list. C'est la vie.

Road Test Editor Ed Hellwig says:
Much like the Eclipse, the Cougar is hardly what I would consider a "sport" coupe. With so little grunt under the hood and a suspension that soaks up rather than sticks to the road, the Cougar is better as a long-distance cruiser than a true canyon-carver.

The V6 is smooth in its delivery, but lacks the guts needed to get the car moving with any amount of urgency. Likewise, the shifter is slick through the gates under normal conditions, but vague and rubbery when used aggressively. The suspension does an admirable job of controlling the car in sweeping turns, but quick changes of direction reveal somewhat slow reflexes.

Glaring yellow paint scheme aside, the Cougar is a reasonably enjoyable car to drive for those who favor comfort over performance. Whether or not a shot of horsepower would cure this shortcoming is hard to say, but for now the Cougar is just a mild-mannered cruiser and not much more.

Associate Editor Liz Kim says:
Did I really drive this car? It left no impression on me. Except, perhaps, the nice sticker on the rear hatch with a graphic representation of the stick figure in the rear seat getting crushed by the hatch with a big "don't do this!" red line through it.

The Cougar is an interesting looking vehicle; it does possess feline features, as its name aptly suggests (does the Eclipse resemble an astronomical condition? The Prelude a movement of a symphony?).

What makes this vehicle forgettable are its driving characteristics. The 170-horsepower V6 is decent enough but can hardly be called peppy or powerful. Steering's slow, heavy and numb and gear engagement is rubbery. The suspension can't seem to sort out the road properly, and its heavy load is borne with a grimace. Nothing terribly bad, mind you, but it certainly doesn't stand out in the mind as either a sporty or comfortable vehicle.


RSX - S
Editor-in-Chief Karl Brauer Says:
I was afraid Acura would screw up the Integra when the company finally redesigned it, but I'm happy to report that my fears were unfounded...mostly. The RSX can lay claim to the best shifter in this class. It's also got sublime steering and a powerful engine with a refreshingly wide power band (did you hear that, Toyota?). Luxury has also been addressed so as not to betray those Acura badges. Automatic climate control was a welcome surprise, as was a six-disc in-dash CD changer and a one-touch up-and-down driver's window.

So what's with my "mostly" comment? The biggest problem I have with the RSX is its looks. While the Integra never made me think "Honda" when seeing one on the street, the RSX simply screams "upgraded Civic." I'm also not a fan of the rear suspension, which transmitted bumps into the cabin with a loud "thud" when driving on public roads. I still think it's the best sport coupe around, especially considering the price/content relationship. I just wish it offered a more upscale appearance.

Associate Editor Liz Kim says:
What a fun little speedster! The RSX really appealed to me, even though I felt like I was being unfaithful to the memory of the dearly departed Integra. Although I prefer the looks of the second-generation Integra, the RSX is still slick and much more appealing than the more edgy and polemical Celica. And the package is so much more livable than the Toyota's. The fit and finish is better, and the 200 ponies from the engine are much more accessible than those of the Celica's high-strung four-cylinder. The shifter's much easier to use, as well; it's more of a joy than a chore.

The only issue I have with the RSX is the weird rear suspension hop over bumps; I'm assuming that it has to do with the newfangled compact design. While it didn't upset the chassis too badly, this definitely wasn't a ride characteristic of the front-and-rear double wishbones of the Integra. Steering is perfect, but the Celica transmitted more road feel. Overall, however, it's gonna be the gold standard for sport coupes, and it's the one that I'd lay my money down on.

Photo Editor Scott Jacobs says:
The Acura is just so-so in my book. It does most things well, but nothing all that great. Like other editors, I wasn't too wild about the looks. The front end is sporty and good looking, but toward the rear, it seems to lose its sporty stance. It's like the designers got bored by the time they got to the back.

The interior is interesting, but just didn't hit its mark with me. I didn't find it as aesthetically pleasing as the GTI. The seats look awesome, but I found them a little uncomfortable from all the bolstering. The best quality of this car is the engine. It is powerful and responsive.

But that's enough to make me want to buy one.

[Lando]

I have to say a few things regarding all these different claims of which car is better and which is faster. Out of these cars (Cougar,Prelude SH, Integra GSR, RSX-S). I have driven 2000 and newer of all these cars except the RSX-S which I have seen and read plenty about. As far as driving pleasure(transmission feal), and just flat out speed from stock my choice is definitely - 1. GSR 2.Prelude 3. Cougar, and the RSX-S would smoke all three and I mean .5 sec smoke. The Prelude weighs too much and the Cougar just doesn't have the power delivery throughout the range as the Hondas. I do agree that if you put the money into the Cougar to make up for what you pay for these Hondas you are gonna be right up there with them if not passing all three. Also, what is up with people not believing you can go 45mph around a ninety degree turn? I wouldnt try it in my GSR but I did in a 1992 AWD Mitsubishi Eclipse. I know I could do it in my car too but Im not that stupid anymore! So in closing, If you guys have a stock Cougar I wouldn't try to drag an RSX-S. You might have a chance against the Prelude Vtec and the Integra GSR vtec depending on who is the better driver.

[lucky]

Thank you Gsr boy. Plain and simple, the Cougar will stomp a mudhole in all three cars (given the correct mods and driver). And oh yeah, thank god i had a third party w/ us when we were racing to clearify Landos bad memory on who spanked who! Ouch!!!

[Lando]

Who spanked who? Haaa! If your memory hasnt lapsed I spanked you first and then you barely beat me I had to slow down before my car flew by you in third gear. Ha Ha. remember

[lucky]

What did i say, lay off the crack. Besides, the only mods i had then were exhaust and the venom, and the jet chip (that is junk and shouldnt be counted as a mod). Since then.......... svt tb & intake, svt inj, no pre cats, msd dig ign, Vitech wires, holy cow should i go on!!! HA HA HA!

[Lando]

So when I smoke you are you gonna post it on here? Ha!

[lucky]

no, ill sell her and by a import. If you cant beat'm join'm!!

[yakkosmurf]

Why settle for racing a GSR?

[trizzane]

I don't really want to start any more trouble here, this is your Cougar board and It pisses me off when people come to our board and cause trouble, but I had to respond. Many times people compare cars that are not in the same class. The WRX and the RSX is a classic example. The WRX will edge us in performance, except for a few specific circumstances, but were not in the same class. One turbo and AWD, one N/A and FWD. The RSX is close in performance but a much nicer fit and finish IMO. It's just a better vehicle fit for me. In the case of the Cougar VS. RSX-S, Celi GTS, it somewhat the same thing. They are not in the same league, and the Cougar stock for stock just does not come close. Fit and finish is not close, reliability is the same deal. Looks are obviously subjective since some people think the RSX is ugly and the Cougar is beautiful. We won't even go there. As for mods, this is the same war we have had time and time again with WRX guys. If you add a turbo to the RSX it will smoke the WRX.(rediculous arguement) Well guess what, if you add a turbo to a geo metro it will smoke a Cougar. Would you rather have a GEO metro instead of your Cougar? No, of course not. You need to compare the cars stock for stock, there is no other way to compare it, and in this case there is no comparison. So, in summary, the interior and exterior is subjective , I suppose. Fit, finish, overall quality, resale value, and stock performance is not open for discussion. The cougar just doesn't compare, and IMO it is not meant to. It is meant to romp over "Import type domestic tuner cars" such as sunfires, cavs, etc, and it will do that well. If you beat a RSX-S on the road/track, the other guy either wasn't racing, or has no clue how to drive, but you still have 3k more in your pocket than me. (although it most likely will be lost in resale value) Not trying to start a flame war, just putting in my opinion with a bit of fact. Have a good one and keep the metal side up. -TZ

[bigwilly669]

Fit, finish, overall quality, resale value, and stock performance is not open for discussion. The cougar just doesn't compare, and IMO it is not meant to. It is meant to romp over "Import type domestic tuner cars" such as sunfires, cavs, etc, and it will do that well. If you beat a RSX-S on the road/track, the other guy either wasn't racing, or has no clue how to drive, but you still have 3k more in your pocket than me. (although it most likely will be lost in resale value) Not trying to start a flame war, just putting in my opinion with a bit of fact. Have a good one and keep the metal side up. -TZ

A few more bits of fact:

1.) Most auto reviews have little reason to praise a car that is destined for extinction, and thus don't. Not only are they very subjective, but they never use any kind of standardized rating scale. They never will. They can't. It won't allow them to exaggerate the outcome of the losing and winning cars, which must be done to reach their desired conclusion.
2.) Consumer Reports is a non-profit magazine that actually does use a standardized rating scale to rate cars, which takes most of the prejudice out of the final outcome. According to them, these sporty coupes rate differently than most people think. In fact, in order of overall ratings, the outcome is as follows: 1 - WRX, 2 - Celica GTS, 3 - Solara, 4 - Cougar, 5 - Accord coupe v6, 6 - RSX-s, 7 - Eclipse GT. I'm not saying one car is particularly better than another, they each have plusses and minuses. But this is a good start when looking for a car to buy. As you mentioned before, alot is a matter of personal taste.
3.) Reliability in cars has improved greatly over the last 20 years, especially for American cars, and is not the major player it used to be. Jap cars are still the most reliable. VW reliability is similar to American cars.
4.) Speed is hardly the major factor in deciding which car to buy. If it was, we'd all be driving camaros, mustangs, or wrx's.
5.) The RSX is built off the Civic platform.

When you say the cougar can't compare, I beg to disagree. Speedwise, yes. Overall, no. In the end, it's always to each his own.

[StreetConcepts]

Of all the cars discussed here the only car I'd rather be driving than my Cougar is a new silver WRX. The only reason I am not driving one is that I have too much time and money invested in my car and have decided to top it off and satisfy that power urge with Street Flight's intercooled turbo kit. I'll be well over 200 hp at the wheels and have a car that I love the way it looks and know that of all the other modded Cougars in the country there is not a single one like mine since most of my work is done by me and can't be bought from a store.

[StreetConcepts]

oh and in reference t the 30 hp gain at the wheels with intake/exhaust/headers it has been seen many times. The restrictive y pipe and precats in our stock exhaust manifolds rob the car of tremendous power. The svt contour makes 30 more hp than a cougar with the same engine with custom ground cams, slightly higher compression, extrude honed intake manifold and larger throttle body and #19 injectors

[SpruceCougar]

I like all the points presented here so far as to where we stand among our competition...or how we've been told that we're not even competition. Sunfire's and Cavaliers? I hardly think that they're in the same class as us..maybe more for Civics perhaps. They're 4 cylinder cars running like 130 hp to the crank, weigh up to 400 lbs less than us..and are classified as compact economy cars. Yes I do agree that the cougar is somewhat different than the RSX-S or GTS, but not entirely. It's not like you'd completely smoke us. I've never raced and RSX-S, but I have beaten a GTS before. Was he trying? Well if driving at 120 mph doesnt mean he's pushing his car, then I dont know why he didnt try harder at that point. I'd say the cougar is more comparible to the new Eclipse, Stratus, Sebring, and Solara. All of these cars are running V6's and are a little more on the heavy side.

[Furious1]

Good comments...from both sides.

Just wanted to add to what StreetConcepts said that the heads in the Cougar are the most restrictive. If we had unrestrictive heads and variable cam timing...dear Lord.

Having said that, it obviously did not change my mind on what car to buy, which is really my point. We ALL drive the cars we want. It's then up to us to either leave it alone or modify it however we like it (speed/looks).

Enjoy...

[yakkosmurf]

And oh man if I had lower compression and a turbo. It doesn't matter what you would do with what you could have. What you have is all that matters. Why don't I have a turbo running 15 psi? Probably some of the same reasons you have a poor flowing head and a low tech valve train...