Trying to start it *Accomplished* Video inside

[blustreak]

So I needed a good title to the thread and couldn't think of one so hopefully that will entice people to look inside. I also wasn't sure which section to put it in but the car has a Vortech supercharger on it and there isn't much action in this section so I thought I'd post it up here. Please move it if you feel it's necessary.

As many of you know I've got Stangkiller's old car. It has a Vortech system and many other mods. I purchased it last summer and it has pretty much sat up at my friend's ranch since then with me visiting it only on the occasional weekend. I've recently had my weekends open and I've been up messing with it but until Sunday I couldn't even get it react to anything past the ACC on the ignition. Well I finally figured out the clutch switch inside the car had been removed and replaced it but the car is not starting. It sounds like it really wants to but can't for some reason. I have a video with what it sounds like, but I'm not sure that would help diagnose what the current issue is. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvEzff5gDw)

One thing I've noticed is that there is a fuel booster on the car and I used to hear it running when I hooked up the battery but it no longer make any noise so I think it's dead. I was told the booster was on it's way out when I got the car so I got a Walbro 255 to replace it but haven't installed it yet.

I'd appreciate any and all suggestions and help getting this thing up and running and I can take care of all the cosmetic things after it's running well again.

[Badazzcougar]

So I needed a good title to the thread and couldn't think of one so hopefully that will entice people to look inside. I also wasn't sure which section to put it in but the car has a Vortech supercharger on it and there isn't much action in this section so I thought I'd post it up here. Please move it if you feel it's necessary.

As many of you know I've got Stangkiller's old car. It has a Vortech system and many other mods. I purchased it last summer and it has pretty much sat up at my friend's ranch since then with me visiting it only on the occasional weekend. I've recently had my weekends open and I've been up messing with it but until Sunday I couldn't even get it react to anything past the ACC on the ignition. Well I finally figured out the clutch switch inside the car had been removed and replaced it but the car is not starting. It sounds like it really wants to but can't for some reason. I have a video with what it sounds like, but I'm not sure that would help diagnose what the current issue is. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvEzff5gDw)

One thing I've noticed is that there is a fuel booster on the car and I used to hear it running when I hooked up the battery but it no longer make any noise so I think it's dead. I was told the booster was on it's way out when I got the car so I got a Walbro 255 to replace it but haven't installed it yet.

I'd appreciate any and all suggestions and help getting this thing up and running and I can take care of all the cosmetic things after it's running well again.

Make sure you have good fuel pressure at the fuel rail.If you don't hear the fuel pump run, Check to make sure you have battery voltage at the fuel pump connector with the ign. key in the start position. It should be the larger gauge wire. If that checks out, make sure you have spark. Go get one of those cheap spark testers and plug it in. It could also just be very flooded out. Pull a spark plug and look at the electrode,If its saturated with fuel, Replace all the plugs. Maybe that will help:biggrin:

[lildevil20006]

Fuel pump shut-off switch tripped?
:shrug:

[FastCougar]

Check the obvious first ... check the fuel pump relay and fuse under the hood and like mentioned before, reset the shut-off switch if the relay and fuse are good. Start there and if none of those, start probing voltage at the pump. Above all else, don't try to crank for more than 10-12 seconds at a time so you don't burn up the starter.

Double and triple check all electrical connections under the hood!

[blustreak]

So it seems the consensus is that is has something to do with the fuel or the injectors. I'll pick up some new spark plugs and maybe a voltmeter before Saturday. Where is the shut-off switch located?

I appreciate all the help and ideas so far

[gamiller]

Do you have a Haynes manual? You really should. It describes how to troubleshoot as well as how to replace parts. Otherwise, you can get decent instructions from the AutoZone website. For example, the AutoZone site describes How to Reset the Fuel Delivery Inertia Switch (http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/cc/fd/0900823d801bccfd/repairInfoPages.htm). It would be good to confirm that the inertia switch is back in the default position before we do any real troubleshooting.

Watching your video, I wonder: when you turn your key to ACC, do you hear the fuel pump pressurizing the fuel system? If not, either your pump or a connection to it is dead. Let's have a look in the Haynes manual for other ideas:


Engine rotates but will not start
Fuel tank empty
Fault in the fuel injection system
Battery discharged
Battery terminal connections loose
Fuel injector or fuel pump faulty
Damaged ignition components
Worn or faulty spark plugs
Broken or loose wiring in starting circuit
Broken or loose wiring at coil faulty coil
Broken timing chain or belt


You should be able to cross out several of those fairly quickly. Once you have the car starting, you can follow the AutoZone procedure for troubleshooting the fuel system, if needed:


The easiest way to test the operation of the fuel injectors is to listen for a clicking sound coming from the injectors while the engine is running. This is accomplished using a mechanic's stethoscope, or a long screwdriver. Place the end of the stethoscope or the screwdriver (tip end, not handle) onto the body of the injector. Place the ear pieces of the stethoscope in your ears, or if using a screwdriver, place your ear on top of the handle. An audible clicking noise should be heard; this is the solenoid operating. If the injector makes this noise, the injector driver circuit and computer are operating as designed. Continue testing all the injectors this way.

If all the injectors are clicking, but you have determined that the fuel system is the cause of your driveability problem, continue diagnostics. Make sure that you have checked fuel pump pressure as outlined earlier in this section. An easy way to determine a weak or unproductive cylinder is a cylinder drop test. This is accomplished by removing one spark plug wire at a time, and seeing which cylinder causes the least difference in the idle. The one that causes the least change is the weak cylinder.

If the injectors were all clicking and the ignition system is functioning properly, remove the injector of the suspect cylinder and bench test it. This is accomplished by checking for a spray pattern from the injector itself. Install a fuel supply line to the injector (or rail if the injector is left attached to the rail) and momentarily apply 12 volts DC and a ground to the injector itself; a visible fuel spray should appear. If no spray is achieved, replace the injector and check the running condition of the engine.

[gamiller]

BTW, the stock fuel pump is good for 300hp, so... you want to sell me your Walbro? :biggrin:

[blustreak]

I don't hear the booster like I used to when I hooked up the battery to the car. I guess I should go ahead and change the plugs just for good measure. If I get in there and they're saturated with fuel what would I do then? Pull the UIM and LIM off?

BTW, the stock fuel pump is good for 300hp, so... you want to sell me your Walbro? :biggrin:

"I don't think so Annie"..... I was told it's one of the best if I wanted to get away from the fuel booster. The car also has some kind of custom nitrous system on it that according to the records cost Mike quite a few of his pennies. I'd like to have the extra insurance of having the Walbro in there if I ever decide to hook the nitrous up.

[Foreverfalcon40]

GAMILLER: FOR cheap warlboro's check out all DSM websites. NYCCDSM.com DSMTRADER.COM DSMTUNERS.COM...becareful...for some reason there are different version for DSM for some reason AWD and FWD don't know if that makes a difference for the cougar can get them pretty cheap used.

[gamiller]

I don't hear the booster like I used to when I hooked up the battery to the car. I guess I should go ahead and change the plugs just for good measure. If I get in there and they're saturated with fuel what would I do then? Pull the UIM and LIM off?

I don't think you're ready to check the injectors if you are telling me that your fuel pump is not pressurizing the system when you turn the key. I also don't know what checking the plugs for fuel will get you. i'd be checking to ensure that they are properly gapped, not oil fouled, and that the plug wires and coil pack are good.

[SingleShot]

Where is the shut-off switch located?
Should be in the driver side floor. Behind the hood/trunk latch. I think lol.

When me and James went with you that sunday did we get it to turn over? And IIRC we heard the fuel pump when we turned the key on right? I got the Contour/Mystique/Cougar Haynes book. So if you wanna barrow it.

Let me know if you need a hand. "will work for beer and/or food!"

[boarder4life]

check the schrauder valve to ensure ur getting fuel through the system?
i had the same problem and it turned out to be one of those square fuses. trust i septn 2 days looking for an issue and was pissed/happy to find out it was sumthing that simple.

[blustreak]

I don't think you're ready to check the injectors if you are telling me that your fuel pump is not pressurizing the system when you turn the key. I also don't know what checking the plugs for fuel will get you. i'd be checking to ensure that they are properly gapped, not oil fouled, and that the plug wires and coil pack are good.

I guess my next task will be attempting to install the Walbro. I've been a bit timid about getting it in because of the current setup. It has a fuel booster located under the car (and I was told the stock fuel pump is still in its location but it's not powered) and braided fuel lines. I've read over the how-to for the Walbro install several times and I'm still worried about dumping fuel everywhere if I try to take out the booster and replace the stock fuel pump.

Should be in the driver side floor. Behind the hood/trunk latch. I think lol.

When me and James went with you that sunday did we get it to turn over? And IIRC we heard the fuel pump when we turned the key on right? I got the Contour/Mystique/Cougar Haynes book. So if you wanna barrow it.

Let me know if you need a hand. "will work for beer and/or food!"

When you guys were here we didn't make a whole lot of progress. I actually went in last Sunday and re-ran some of the wires because they were in the wrong way as far as weaving in the harness. We didn't get it turned over let alone get it to react to anything past the ACC switch on the ignition. I suspect that was because the computer wasn't recognizing the clutch was depressed.

You're more than welcome to come help me out whenever. I'm going up there Saturday possibly after going to my friend's open house for here Vet Clinic. I may or may not go to it but I have plans to be working on the car for a while Sat and Sat night.

I have a Ford Service CD but I can't seem to get it to run correctly on any of my machines. I'm no computer noob but the thing locks up on me constantly. I'm assuming it may have a conflict with some other programs I have installed but I don't know which. I wouldn't mind taking a look at your Haynes Book.

check the schrauder valve to ensure ur getting fuel through the system?...

Yeah I'm going to try and do everything I can to make sure it's getting fuel.

[boarder4life]

when my car was reacting like that i thought it may be the clutch depression sensor, so i disconnected it and just ran a wire through it so it wouldn't be needed while i was diagnosing it, that did help since the sensor ran off the same fuse as the fuel pump cut off switch

[Badazzcougar]

I don't think you're ready to check the injectors if you are telling me that your fuel pump is not pressurizing the system when you turn the key. I also don't know what checking the plugs for fuel will get you. i'd be checking to ensure that they are properly gapped, not oil fouled, and that the plug wires and coil pack are good.

If his spark plugs are badly saturated with fuel because it possibly maybe flooded out,that thing will never start. Happens to RX8s all the time.

[blustreak]

If his spark plugs are badly saturated with fuel because it possibly maybe flooded out,that thing will never start. Happens to RX8s all the time.

If it is flooded what steps do I need to take to correct the issue? How should I go about draining the extra fuel?

[Badazzcougar]

If it is flooded what steps do I need to take to correct the issue? How should I go about draining the extra fuel?

In very bad cases where your losing compression,because the fuel has washed away the oil on the cylinders, I would start with replacing the spark plugs and changing the oil. Pull the oil dipstick and smell it. If it smells like fuel then more then likely its been flooded. I have had Passat V6s that when you go to start them, It sounds like they have no compression,because they have been flooded out so bad. I have been lucky with a few, where if you crank the motor long enough and hold the gas pedal all the way to the floor they will start to sputter and eventually you get it running.

[blustreak]

So I worked on the car for a few hours tonight. I Knew if had some type of fuel system but wasn't sure what kind. It's an Aeromotive system with a shiny red fuel filter and pump with braided lines running down the underside next to the stock lines. It also had a Pressure gauge inside the engine bay. I got the pump that pump to turn on via a switch run inside the car and it's damn loud. It seems to be running but 3 different pressure gauges both say there is no pressure.

Obviously, the stock pump is not being used but I was going to try and get it going to test and make sure it's the current pump acting up. I took out the filter and the pump, drained the fuel from them and then replaced them. Because of the way the braided fuel lines were hooked up I couldn't substitute the Walbro for the current pump using the braided lines.

Before all this I checked the front three spark plugs and they looked fine from what I know. They were kinda black and dirty but not bad. I also think they're the NGK Copper plugs because this car has a nitrous system on it. I don't know if I should swap them out until one day down the road if or when I decide to run the nitrous.

So now I'm not sure where to go with it. I guess I can either get a new pump that is similar to the old one. Or I can try to wire up the stock pump again and figure out how to hook up the stock fuel lines in the engine bay again. I've never done anything with fuel systems so I'm not very knowledgeable.

Thanks for any more help or ideas you all can provide.

[blustreak]

So after being under the car and seeing the setup I think it would be much easier and more likely better for me to simply get a new pump to replace the one that is currently on the car. I have a the Walbro but it doesn't have the correct fitting for being out side the tank so I was think of selling my current one and purchasing this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSL392-Walbro-255-HP-Inline-Fuel-Pump-GSL-392-COMPLETE_W0QQitemZ380025490257QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item380025490257&). It looks like almost the same pump as what it currently there. Does this seem like a decent solution?

Before I do this, how would one go about checking the fuel pump to make sure that's what is causing the no fuel pressure? I unhooked it and dumped what fuel was in it out and ran it with no fuel. It seemed to spit out what fuel was in it but is there a benchmark test or better way to make sure that's what it is? Otherwise I have no idea why I'm not showing any fuel pressure.

The system that is currently on there looks to be a mix of the 500 and 700hp system here (http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/d_systems.php?systemdisplay=efi). I know the system maybe a bit overkill but it's already on there and setup so I might as well get it going.

[luvmy99cougar]

so did u hook up a fuel pressure guage to the schrader valve then? if so, make sure its snug on there and turn the key or however your turning the pump on like 2-3 times to let it build up pressure if it is making any, by just putting the gauge on its not gonna tell you anything, you have to let it run a few times. if you already know that then just ignore me. i would say around 40-45psi is where it should be, maybe more. thats really the main test to see if the pump is bad or not. also doing a pressure bleed off test, which is just letting the gauge sit sit for about 5min and see if the guage moved at all... if the car would run and you seemed to be having trouble with it getting enough fuel, theres another test that can be done while the car is running ,which i wont get into at the moment.

[blustreak]

so did u hook up a fuel pressure guage to the schrader valve then? if so, make sure its snug on there and turn the key or however your turning the pump on like 2-3 times to let it build up pressure if it is making any, by just putting the gauge on its not gonna tell you anything, you have to let it run a few times. if you already know that then just ignore me. i would say around 40-45psi is where it should be, maybe more. thats really the main test to see if the pump is bad or not. also doing a pressure bleed off test, which is just letting the gauge sit sit for about 5min and see if the guage moved at all... if the car would run and you seemed to be having trouble with it getting enough fuel, theres another test that can be done while the car is running ,which i wont get into at the moment.

Well I did release the pressure using the valve before I disconnected the filter and pump and I did hear it release a small bit of pressure but not much. The fuel system has braided fuel lines and a regulator with a pressure gauge in the engine bay. That gauge is what I was using as it's inlne. I also have a gauge for in the car I hooked up and still got 0 pressure.

I think it's the fuel pump but when I hook it up it sounds like it's running strong. Maybe it just needs a new insert in the fuel filter I'm not sure.

[boarder4life]

what are u connecting the pump to to check if it is running? the regular connection or an outside connection?

[blustreak]

It's hooked up directly to the battery with the a fuse and switch inline. I flip the switch with the key at the acc. position and the pump starts up but I still get no fuel pressure on the gauges.

It has an inline aeromotive filter and I ordered a replacement for the disposable part today so maybe that will help. I'll try again Saturday to open the casing for the filter because last weekend I couldn't unscrew it.

I also ordered a new Walbro pump that I believe should simply replace the current one. Hopefully one or both of these will be the solution. With that being said I'll post up the brand new Walbro 255 in tank fuel pump I bought if Gamiller decides he doesn't want it.

Is there a different way to test the pump?

[blustreak]

We got it running after replacing the filter and putting in the new fuel pump. We also had to make an unexpected trip down to Summit Racing (~65 miles from where we were) to get some new braided fuel line because the line running from the tank to the filter was leaking. after draining an almost full tank of gas we replaced the line and started her up. After letting her run for a few minutes she was able to idle on her own. I think she just needed some love after sitting for almost 9 months.

Now I'm truly motivated to get her put back together and she what she can do. I have a video of her running but YouTube is giving me problems. As soon as I get it loaded I'll link it in here. 2Cougar00 has some better videos of her actually moving on her own power with me behind/under (no seat installed so I used a pile of blankets) the wheel.

Next I'm going to go ahead and change the oil and sparks plugs (it currently has copper plugs for the ex-nitrous system) just to make sure it's all good to go.

Any other suggestions before I take her on her maiden run since I've acquired her?

YouTube - Supercharger Running (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz73tHmxtKk)

[SingleShot]

LoL what happened to the sound of it at like 20 seconds?

Sounded a little better in person but the vid is still good lol.. or maybe it was because i was in the car.

[blustreak]

LoL what happened to the sound of it at like 20 seconds?

Sounded a little better in person but the vid is still good lol.. or maybe it was because i was in the car.

I think the exhaust made the speaker on my camera turn itself down so it didn't make a horrible cracking noise. After all, it's pretty loud inside or outside of the car.

[PREDATOR]

Sounds mean as hell :cool: Good job on getting it running again.

[gamiller]

haha! love that supercharger sound! congrats on resurrecting the dead!

[StealthyWeasel]

Looks like it's running well too

[blustreak]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. To be honest it was supposed to be running right before I got it and he was tearing it apart. So in theory, it just hadn't been turned over the whole time I've had it because a few wires weren't hooked up.

[PREDATOR]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. To be honest it was supposed to be running right before I got it and he was tearing it apart. So in theory, it just hadn't been turned over the whole time I've had it because a few wires weren't hooked up.
I had that same problem when I bought Crispy's car... car wouldn't run right and then I had to leave for 7 months on my deployment.

[kustomcougar]

what supercharger kit is that?

[blustreak]

what supercharger kit is that?

Vortech....

I should have more videos of the car actually moving this weekend. It was too dark last weekend.

[kustomcougar]

Vortech....

I should have more videos of the car actually moving this weekend. It was too dark last weekend.

sucks they dont make them anymore, does that have a FMIC or no? and yes more videos will be awesome

[SingleShot]

No FMIC. Dunno if hes gonna put one on later on.

Ryan sent a Text saying he had the Vids uploaded and they have sound so.

[blustreak]

sucks they dont make them anymore, does that have a FMIC or no? and yes more videos will be awesome

yeah I was lucky to get a hold of this car as it once belonged to Stangkiller. No it doesn't have an FMIC so I've been thinking about experimenting with water/menthanol injection but I haven't completely ruled out the IC.... It once had a DPNI system on it but it has been partially disassembled. I'm not sure if it will go back on but we'll see how far I'd like to take it in the future.

[blustreak]

No FMIC. Dunno if hes gonna put one on later on.

Ryan sent a Text saying he had the Vids uploaded and they have sound so.

Yeah I know but he also said he has no internet where he is so he'll get them up Sat night or Sunday but by then I should have more videos of it running and moving :biggrin:

[kustomcougar]

you ever sell that supercharger let me know! or give me your address and the times when your not home ;)

[blustreak]

you ever sell that supercharger let me know! or an your address and the times when your not home ;)

Good try but it's not even at my house right now because I don't have the space where I live :( Otherwise, it would look and run a lot better because right now I can only work on it weekends.... it's about 50 mins north at a friend's ranch.

[gamiller]

Nowhere to work on a car is one of the reasons I left Atlanta. That and my job. Ha.

[blustreak]

Well we got the dash and the seats in so we took it for a test drive. The only after market gauge we had hooked up was the Boost gauge. It's pretty quick but right away I know it could be faster by adding a few of the parts I have waiting and a few I need to pick up.

I'll go into more when I post a few new pics and a video but the one thing I'm worried about is the car overheating. It read 237F on diagnostic mode after we got it back in the workshop. It was pretty hot in there when we opened the hood. I definitely think an intercooler or water/methanol injection will come very soon. Although, I was pushing it really hard for a few runs up and down the country road until I noticed the stock temp gauge reading past half way.

Nowhere to work on a car is one of the reasons I left Atlanta. That and my job. Ha.