Fordracing.com short block vs. aftermarket internals

[CheeseEater88]

I was wondering what would be better, cheaper and faster...

My cougar is my daily driver... and I do have a back-up... a Colbalt ... its not really a car if you ask me. *cringes at the thought of driving it's automatic slowness*


I was talking to some friends and they seem to lean towards the short block... just for simplicity.

this car is going to be boosted... over 230hp but under 300hp

the nice thing is... the short block cost only $615... and is like a new engine.

or should I get a complete focus zetec for around $2500, do cams and everything else including F/I and have a summer engine.


so can I get some pros V. cons on the aftermarket side of things

[kpeeks]

Just build the block with aftermarket internals. The FRPP block is a waste of money honestly. If you want tough block go to Focus Power (http://www.focus-power.com), you can get a stroker block for a decent price.

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

just save yourself the hassle and buy the focus power engine. in order to build an engine yourself and have it equivelant to the focus power engine would cost you close to $6K.

if you have no intentions of EVER going above 300BHP then why not buy a used focus engine with low miles. put your oil pan and head on it and go from there.

[CheeseEater88]

dumb question... cougars have the ZX3 or 2?
or does it matter?
also could I just get the short block from focus power? and save myself $1000 minus new injectors?

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

for the extra $1000 you get a complete engine including a ported head and cams. its worth spending the little extra to get those.

i believe due to the VCT it would actually be a ZX2 engine but since i think they delete the VCT (you will have to get it turned off in your tune) it doesnt really matter.

[CheeseEater88]

well, it seems like I am not commited to $5000+ overhaul..... just yet...
what I'll do is spend the $615 on ford's short block.... maybe cryo freeze it for good measure :).... then I'll put the money I saved from not buying focus power's kit into nice turbo/intake setup...
just something feasable by spring of 09' or fall of this year.
from what I hear anything below 300 was safe... its not like I want to need a 5 or six point roll cage in the cougar just to take it down the track.

and if I want that 500HP I'll buy focus powers stroker kit


btw the I4 cougar stock is low 17s with a crap driver....could only get 17.02 if I recall correctly... but its great on fuel *thumbs-up*

I'll take you advice Dan when I have a lot of cash lying around. $3500 for an engine is a great deal... and I thank you for pointing it out... but to acrew that much money would take a while especially when I have yet to buy said turbo to go with it (which is really the only reason I am building this up).
The cryo treatment should bring the endurance close to a forged internals level...
if something does go wrong.... I know what I have to buy the next time.

I also have to replace the Weapon intake.... ugly as sin... and screams something worse than rice.

[cbman]

You're going to buy the focus short block? Why?
It has stock components, so why would you do that?

If you're really going to cryo treat your engine components, just do it to your current components, and hone your cylinders and get a new set of rings. ( if you need it).

Waste of money IMHO.

Now, if you could get a slightly used SVT focus block, then there would be a block worth spending some money on. Stronger components, increased C/R, and oil squirters. But you're going to need a tune, and that will cost you approximately $400 just for the flasher. That doesn't include tuning costs, which will be more than $200. So, you're going to be spending at least $600 on just tuning.

[kpeeks]

cb is right, the fr block is a waste as you already have it in the car. now, if your gonna cryo anything get the crank treated. buy yourself some je pistons & some pauter rods.

You could build a decent block for around 1500. the head is gonna cost the most to upgrade...just a lot of labor cost & depending on your choice of valvetrain it can cost equal to or more than the labor.

[CheeseEater88]

Ok, I really didn't want to replace the valve train... like you said very expensive... and to avoid some labor issues I was thinking of getting it all done at once ie short block... I don't want to deal with sizing boring or honing, even ordeing parts.

The FR block was going to be a temporary fix and yes I know its stock.... but it does include a new everything... including stuff that is a pain to find aftermarket... ie. the crank..

I guess the point is... I am impatient... I have enough money right now to get started on something small. Enough to get a turbo set up, and possibly suspension.

So should I hold off on any form of internal mods, and boost it to around 200-225 hp... and run like that till something breaks or when I actually have enough for a stroker kit or what have you?

I have close to $3000 in the bank.. so not much to work with.
my 3K might go a little farther than normal though.... I already have friend that said they'd build up a kit for me, so parts are my major cost with 10% of the part cost going to labor. Don't worry hes a licenced mechanic, and a racer/tuner.

would I be ok running stock internals with boosted 200-225hp? so as to avoid waisting my money on the FR block... to save it up for a focus power one

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

you have a PM.

[cbman]

I know nothing about cryo treating. So, can you cryo the whole block assembled or do you have to cryo the components individually? If you're going to have to disassemble the shortblock anyway then there is going to be some labor involved anyway.

As far as $3,000, you're going to need all of that just for the turbo kit. You're going to have to buy the turbocharger, wastegate, BOV, intercooler, flanges gaskets, couplers, MAF, injectors, chip/flasher, tuning costs. It adds up pretty quick. If you're going for 225WHP, then you should just stick with your stock engine.

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

I know nothing about cryo treating. So, can you cryo the whole block assembled or do you have to cryo the components individually? If you're going to have to disassemble the shortblock anyway then there is going to be some labor involved anyway.

As far as $3,000, you're going to need all of that just for the turbo kit. You're going to have to buy the turbocharger, wastegate, BOV, intercooler, flanges gaskets, couplers, MAF, injectors, chip/flasher, tuning costs. It adds up pretty quick. If you're going for 225WHP, then you should just stick with your stock engine.
yeah, i offered him my turbo kit, since i have decided to part/sell it, for $3000. would include everything but the kitchen sink and a tune. right now i have someone who might be thinking about buying the whole car who came first but hes not sure he will be able to.

[2C0UGAR00]

so lets say we are in my position....
you have 131k miles on in and its starting to go down hill from there
you have about 5-6k coming in from a lawsuit (still in progress)
you want to fix the car up but not sure really what to do with the engine.
do you
1) get another 2.0 and fix it up
2) get an svt and fix that one up
3) get the 3.0 and do that instead

second question i have though if i have the money to get the other engines like the 2.5 or 3.0. how much computer stuff is needed to change everything from the 2.0 say to the 3.0? i mean how much is to far for an engine? Just exactly how much can be done to the cougar engines to make this car say a 12s car

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

why is your engine going downhill at only 131K miles? mine was perfect for all 241K miles before the factory clutch blew up and i pulled the engine and trans.

for 5-6K i would find a low mileage focus engine, swap oil pans and heads, and drop it in. i would then get in line for the turbo kit that i have for sale for $3k. spend a little money on a torsen and the rest for a tune.


in order to go from the zetec to the duratec you will have to replace more than just he engine. you will need the trans, wiring harness, subframe, pcm, radiator hoses, AC lines, etc. its not an easy task. IF you have a v6 donor car that you can pull everything from then it can be done.

[luvmy99cougar]

or if u wanna save some money, look around and see if you can find a somewhat low mileage zetec out of a 98-up contour or cougar for cheap, buy it, tear it apart, check all the internals for excessive wear and check all the specs of it all to see if the parts are still good, if they are, re-ring it and throw some new bearings in it, have the crank journals polished, throw the bottom end back together, and if you wanna do some headwork have that done while its off. i picked up a zetec for 250$ , with 85000 on it. spent like 300-400$ on it, and im gonna be boosting it in about 3 weeks, would of had it done sooner but some stuff came up... but there is another option. and after its done, im definetly gonna keep the forum posted on how it is, so i guess ill see how well it holds up. and BTW, rushing into something is never the best idea, take your time and figure out EXACTLY what needs to be done before proceeding with buying stuff. good luck with it. and for some parts, check this place out Treadstone Performance Inc, Turbo Kits, Intercoolers, Turbo manifolds, Silicone hose (http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/index.phtml)
they have alot of stuff for a pretty good price. theyre intercoolers are nice.

[2C0UGAR00]

yea i think your right about the engine idea....
i'll stick with a 2.0 and i'll be fine i'll just spec up the 2.0 and see how we can do.... and yes turbo when i get some money in i will still buy one of your turbos.... just waiting on this damn case to settle so i can actually get started putting this stuff on

[jaged]

i have a lsd, clutch and flywheel that would work great in your build. make you a deal if you get all of it

[2C0UGAR00]

i'd be glad to take it from you and stuff
i'll probly buy the whole engine and transmisson and keep it manual... i was wanting to see just how far you can take a 2.0 . whats the fastest time on a 2.0L ?

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

i'd be glad to take it from you and stuff
i'll probly buy the whole engine and transmisson and keep it manual... i was wanting to see just how far you can take a 2.0 . whats the fastest time on a 2.0L ?
before i blew mine up my scan gauge said i ran a 14.9 at 97MPH and i let up once i was in 4th gear. :crazy::biggrin:

[2C0UGAR00]

thats not bad...

[h-town-cougar]

WOW. Why not just take the 5-6K. Sell your 4banger and get one that already has a 3L in it? It would run in the 14's anyway....

[2C0UGAR00]

because gas hitting 4 bucks in like 2 weeks

[noggs]

I am in the same situation as al you guys, wanting to build my 2.0 and not knowing which way to go about it, of course, if everything was in a perfect world, i would go for the 3.0L and turbo, but thats not very economical right now :(

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

Ill say it again. I have done all the pricing (multiple times) both a year ago and recently.

just save yourself the hassle and buy the focus power engine. in order to build an engine yourself and have it equivelant to the focus power engine would cost you close to $6K.

if you have no intentions of EVER going above 300BHP then why not buy a used focus engine with low miles. put your oil pan and head on it and go from there.

[2C0UGAR00]

i want to see how much power i can put in this thing i want a daily driven tracker.... so give me prices and places and i'll do calculations myself

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

i want to see how much power i can put in this thing i want a daily driven tracker.... so give me prices and places and i'll do calculations myself
built engine:
Focus-Power -- Home (http://www.focus-power.com/view.php?showme=Home)

parts:
Central Florida Motorsports, Inc.- Focus Performance Parts & Accessories (http://focus.c-f-m.com/)

Ford Focus Auto Parts - McNews Automotive (http://www.mcnewsautomotive.com/category.aspx?categoryID=6)

New Edge Performance (http://www.newedgeperformance.com/)


This is who i prefer to use as they tend to have the best selection and prices.
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.massivespeedsystem.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15445985ca47d5f/shopdata/index.shopscript

dont forget to add in the cost of machine work as well.

[2C0UGAR00]

built engine:
Focus-Power -- Home (http://www.focus-power.com/view.php?showme=Home)

parts:
Central Florida Motorsports, Inc.- Focus Performance Parts & Accessories (http://focus.c-f-m.com/)

Ford Focus Auto Parts - McNews Automotive (http://www.mcnewsautomotive.com/category.aspx?categoryID=6)

New Edge Performance (http://www.newedgeperformance.com/)


This is who i prefer to use as they tend to have the best selection and prices.
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.massivespeedsystem.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15445985ca47d5f/shopdata/index.shopscript

dont forget to add in the cost of machine work as well.

which engine is the best one to get for the cougar? without hitting e 2.5l

[bdiddy]

before i blew mine up my scan gauge said i ran a 14.9 at 97MPH and i let up once i was in 4th gear. :crazy::biggrin:

hold up.... after you turbo'd your car, you only got a 14.9???? at least according to that thing?

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

hold up.... after you turbo'd your car, you only got a 14.9???? at least according to that thing?
that run i let off shortly after hitting 4th gear, hence the high speed but slow time.

sadly, i never got another chance to do a run and see what it really was.

which engine is the best one to get for the cougar? without hitting e 2.5l
I somehow missed this. if your going to fully build an engine with ported head, cams, the works, then i would buy the focus power engine and swap oil pans (focus oil pan doesnt clear the contour/cougar subframe)

[kpeeks]

Daniel, how does the focus oil pan not clear the subframe?

Seeing as we are talking about building a motor...is there any aftermarket oilpans, like a Moroso one?

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

Daniel, how does the focus oil pan not clear the subframe?

Seeing as we are talking about building a motor...is there any aftermarket oilpans, like a Moroso one?
on the contour/cougar, the exhaust passes under the oil pan on the passenger side. this means that the shallow end of the pan is there. the pan over hangs the subframe slightly (enough that you have to raise the engine or lower the subframe to get the pan off with the engine in the car). the exhaust on the focus passes under the pan near the trans and so the deep end is on the passenger side. the focus oil pan is just too deep there to clear the our subframe.

as for choices of pans, your pretty much stuck with a stock pan or custom made.

[2C0UGAR00]

I still plan to get the ford focus power engine... it just says which engine would you like to get...

[Turbo Zetec 'tour]

I still plan to get the ford focus power engine... it just says which engine would you like to get...
any non-SVT zetec should be fine. although i would choose the ZX3 engine just cause i always choose the focus when looking for parts. their engine bay seems to be a little closer, design and size wise, to ours then the ZX2

[2C0UGAR00]

any non-SVT zetec should be fine. although i would choose the ZX3 engine just cause i always choose the focus when looking for parts. their engine bay seems to be a little closer, design and size wise, to ours then the ZX2

alright thanks thats what i was wanting to know