Intake test results are here

[BurritaSVT]

Well after a long crazy week I was able to still complete the dyno with a 2004 taurus motor and cams. I brought 4 intakes I dynoed the manifolds in this order mazda6(escape) UIM, 2004 Taurus UIM, 2001 Taurus UIM, then the SVT UIM

The dyno spark inducer was spiking here and there but it just made the graph peaky in some areas. The numbers posted on the mazda6(escape) had no spikes so the numbers were dead accurate now the rest had some small spike so the max numbers were inflated some so if you look at the graph and draw a smooth curve you will see that the mazda 6 defeated the manifold overall except for torque. but power delivery seemed better. The mazda6 and the SVT kept pulling power up top but the SVT lacked alot of midrange power which hurt its numbers. I am agreeing with the fact that the velocity in the manifold is to low on the SVT to large for midrnage power. The taurus 2001 was only overall not to bad of a swap if you are using high lift cams. Now I am going to build another 2004 taurus motor with SVT cams and allow the intakes to be tested up top more. The taurus cams still performed better up top on the mazda6 so the tuarus 2004 manifold starts to fall off where you will notice the mazda6 still had more room for power.

Now looking at the manifold visually me and Mark were dead-on on the predictions about the escape being the better flowing setup between the oval ports up top. The taurus 2004 swap is a very good swap recommended for NA but if you want to get more I am sure you will see the SVT cams or even SE cams work better on the escape manifold. The A/f were low 13's and I didn't touch the it once I tweaked the MAF but the SVT was richer for some reason so I had to readjust the A/F to make it leaner to compare head-up. Now i did do a time pull and the mazda did it 2 secs faster to 116mph but it started 200rpms later so I would take a second off the time if we are comparing the time portion.

http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/max power intake.jpg
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/torque intakes.jpg

[BurritaSVT]

mazda6 vs 2004 taurus
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/Mazda6vs2004Taurus.jpg

mazda6 vs SVT
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/SVTvsMazda Intake.jpg

SVT vs 2004 Taurus
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/SVTvs2004Taurus.jpg

notice the graph how the only two intakes that don't fall off are the mazda 6 and the SVT because their ports are larger making the two setup less torque down low and I think the plenum volume is what held the SVT from exceeding all the setup so I will add a larger plenum on the SVT UIM to test for volume checks. Joey

[spridget]

Thanks for all your work Joey.

[SpookSVT]

Will you have the ST220 for the SVT cam tests?

[BurritaSVT]

Will you have the ST220 for the SVT cam tests?

Yes I will line it up with Rara so we can test the two mazda6(escape) against the St220 because honestly after looking at both in person we may have a golden peice the escape we never knew would be better breathing up top than the other oval ports. I really think the ST220 will match up to the mazda(escape) manifold because of the larger ports and bigger plenums.

Joey

[jaged]

when you say the mazda6/escape are you talking about the intake that is taller and has shorter runners?

could you post a pic of each of the UIM's just to clarify which is which. I have 3 different 3L uims. Will there be an EH 2.5 in the mix sometime as well?

[fordrule]

too bad the mazda 6 wont fit under our hoods. i thought the svt would perform better. i do think it will with the svt cams

[96blackse]

I guess the oval ports weren't that bad after all :slap:

I remember a couple of verrrrrrrrrry long threads... :cover:

[noggs]

Wow very interesting!

[SpookSVT]

Did you readjust the tune for each manifold or use the same tune for all ovals then retune for the SVT?

I await to see the ST220 perform...

Also, I'd like to see the A/F and and spark data for all of the above runs as well as the acceleration graphs. One other thing too, when you add the plenum spacer to the SVT, make sure you measure for acceleration between having one and not. This will be key since the larger volume may very well show little decrease in acceleration time even though it gains power, making it a small net gain. Something that needs to be looked out for...

[Bergie_dark by design]

From what im looking at.... isnt the 2004 taurus the better intake ? I mean yea the escape has 1.5 more hp but at a limit spot where it's kinda jaged.
Where as it also keeps 10+ more torque.

Also is there a reason for the taurus motor to just be better at mid range rpms ? Just asking cause im not that great of a guru when it comes to the specs.

[SpookSVT]

Also is there a reason for the taurus motor to just be better at mid range rpms ?

Quite possibly runner length.

I'd like to see the what the SVT cams do. You may see the escape make a significant improvent over the Taurus up top but the lower TQ in the midspeed area would not aid in shift recovery. So compromise and utilize the the Taurus with SVT cams for a very broad power curve and have excellent high and mid speed TQ production.

[BurritaSVT]

The escape manifold and the mazda6 are identical intakes in shape and height I used the 2004 Mazda6 for the test and shut the hood. The manifold is deeper on the back plenum. I had to relocate the coil pack on the motor. I will take pics of the mazda6 manifold when I arrive home. I will say if you are looking for the easiest cheapest swap if you don;t have the SVT cams then just do the full 2004 swap. I will redo the test on the setup minus the 2001 tuarus manifold and replace it with the st220 and the split port 3 liter 1998. I spent ovver $400 on the dyno to get the unanswered problems somewhat completed. But my analaysis is that the Taurus is very restrictive above 6000 rpms because the aiflow is to fast for the smaller runners. I only had gutted cats stock y-pipe and my CAI with the tune not touched once I dialed in the first ova port engine at 13.4 A/F and did not touch the spark tables afterwards. The SVT manifold was 12.0 A/F which was the last manifold I tested so I had to recalibrate the A/F to 13.5 to keep it within close measurements. I do know I could have added alot of timing in the SVT midrange because the airflow was slow enough to tolerate more spark where I could have sat on the dyno and made more power down low but ar $120/HR I was already spending enough time swapping manifolds.

[SpookSVT]

So all were not truly optimized except the one oval and you played merely with fuel? This seems rather incomplete per data to analyze. Be nice to see some A/F plots...

[BurritaSVT]

mazda 6
taurus 2004
taurus 2001
SVT UIM 13.5
SVT UIM 12.5

in that order
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/Airfuel.jpg
taurus 2004
taurus 2001
SVT UIM
Mazda 6
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/time intakes.jpg

notice the A/F are very close plus I have some more dyno runs showing the A/f did not make more than 1whp difference even at 12.5 versus 13.5

notice the Mazda 6 pulled to 116mph in 2 secs quicker than all the manifolds so midrange power does not mean you will accelerate faster than topend power because you can clearly see that the smoother torque band made a faster pull. Joey

[SpookSVT]

I get an x for the A/F plot.

Looks like the Mazdas run in the TQ graphs started later and thus had less revs to traverse, so less time...Comparing the 04' Taurus and SVT since they are the closests to start speed, you're looking at about a .4-.5s to terminal speed in 4th gear from ~2000RPM. Now if you get more 'real', and look at the rev drop for each gear, the 04' Taurus is going to be in an area of much greater TQ, aiding shift recovery and acceleration in the higher gears. It does lack a little up top and it is uncertain if this would perform significantly worse than the Mazda.

[BurritaSVT]

I get an x for the A/F plot.

Looks like the Mazdas run in the TQ graphs started later and thus had less revs to traverse, so less time...Comparing the 04' Taurus and SVT since they are the closests to start speed, you're looking at about a .4-.5s to terminal speed in 4th gear from ~2000RPM. Now if you get more 'real', and look at the rev drop for each gear, the 04' Taurus is going to be in an area of much greater TQ, aiding shift recovery and acceleration in the higher gears. It does lack a little up top and it is uncertain if this would perform significantly worse than the Mazda.

I think he started after 2k I will find the one where he did not start after 2k I screwed up ...lol

[BurritaSVT]

http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/time runs.jpg
http://easylink.playstream.com/burritasvt/progressive/Airfuelnew.jpg

now you will see the fifth run is 12.1 that is the SVT that I had to adjust but it didn't gain any power from it when I did lean it out some as you can see. on the fourth run

Oh I did mess up I grabbed the wrong dyno for the time comparision. Joey

the crazy thing is the SVT made more power down low then all the manifolds so I am certain the small plenums are acting as small runners. Joey

[SpookSVT]

~1s in accleration time! That's an eternity...

The gap is only going to get wider when both cars are in contest. Both will be 'in the band' where the oval intakes clearly have a large advantage in TQ production for most of that period. That last bit the 2.5L intake holds will not make up for it's near 10ft-lbs handicap over most of the rev band, especially in the upper gears. The 2.5L induction system is inadequete for any 3L let alone the 2.5L itself. Porsche prototype?? Much bigger plenums, right?

I'm going to bring up the same point with SVT cams. Yes, they do make excellent HP but over a VERY narrow range. Unless you live in the throttle, it does you no good having that bit of power at one extreme of the graph. Every RPM the engine sees in racing, let alone daily driving, is important! Peak power has nothing to do with the performance of a vehicle.

Even worse in a street application using the SVT cams, unless you have fully functioning IMRC on a TWIN PORT head that allows good lowspeed and highspeed efficiency (it's original design intent) you're going to loose power in the lower and mid regions when you use them with an oval port or remove the IMRC from the twin port engine

[tour96se]

wonder why noone has cut the plenums or end tanks off taken a larger diameter pipe,capped the ends and welded them to the runners?
i see cutom manifolds on other car forums all the time..but never the cdw27 based boards....???

[SpookSVT]

I can say it would not be difficult job for an experienced fabricator to do. The problem is packaging all the other bits (IAC, EGR, coil or swap to COP (cam cover issues may arise), etc...) in the available real estate away from heat and moving parts. This adds costs and complexity. Best bet may be the twin port Taurus intake...

[tour96se]

so you've told me in past pm's...i still have one sitting in the back room.. i just have to figure out something for the egr and idle valve,not sure if the hood will close or not.

[spridget]

so you've told me in past pm's...i still have one sitting in the back room.. i just have to figure out something for the egr and idle valve,not sure if the hood will close or not.


The hood will close on the Contour, not sure about the Cougar. Some of the earliest 3L Contours used the Taurus aluminum split port intake with no problem.

Take a look at Stazi's old car....
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/ryanatrome/75332856415_0_ALB.jpg

The IACV has been relocated. I would try removing the hood blanket first... it may fit.

[tour96se]

gotcha.. know how to relocate it if it wont fit,that's easy,kinda. but what about the egr? maybe just caping it off

[SpookSVT]

Make a new tube is the other option...

[Bergie_dark by design]

Well then, i've never even seen the twin port taurus intake before... i actually like it alot better then the svt manifold in looks anyways.

Any chance it could get dyno'd soon ?

[tour96se]

Well..i'm putting true duals on the tour tomorrow,i'm debating on whether or not to tackle the 3L manifold tomorrow too. Or leaving it how it is,dyno'ing for a baseline of sorts. Than putting the 3L on and dyno'ing again later.

[Blackcoog]

Based on my experience the IAC's just barely fit under the hood with the 3L intake. It may vary from car to car though. It think after some reving the IAC tilts up and scratches the hood a bit. You can grind down the mounting surface on the intake or the IAC if you are worried about it. Just make sure you get a good seal when all is finished.

[SpookSVT]

You can relocate the IAC if need be and plug the factory ports. Then tap for air before the throttle and run the other line into a new hole in the plenum that will need to be drilled and tapped. I have done this and no real issues other than it idles a bit higher (could be that I'm still not tuned 100%). Just make sure the hose and fittings are a decent size, I have 5/8" fittings. The hose needs to be pretty stiff to prevent collapsing under vacuum.

[SicSE]

Nevermind... just saw the other thread.