04-05 valve cover

[fordrule]

is anyone running 04-05 valve covers? I dont imrc in my car and the secondaries are removed. also anyone thinking of running cops on there 3L?

i was thinking of running the 04-05 valve covers due to the fact of the updated pcv/breather system...any thoughts?

[AndrewM6097]

if you need any of that stuff (valve covers and coils) let me know, i have it all and im not using it

[fordrule]

pm me what u all got, do u still have the cops and the wiring? and the plate that goes between the heads also...i guess i could be the first cougar to try the new system....but its going to be some waiting to see how it all works

[fordrule]

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3659/sd530267ax4.jpg

i have the steeda oil/air seperator from spmotorsports inline with my current pcv system, anyone know about routing these valve covers and the svt uim....

[gamiller]

didn't Trevor do that? or at least look into that?

everybody else I know with the 04 valve covers is using the 3.0 UIM.

[fordrule]

i thought so too, but he hasn't been workin on his car since his new job and crappy weather

[fordrule]

is this what you might want to talk to trevor about for your set up gary

[fordrule]

henry are these the valve covers you are using with ur COP setup?

[Rikenbomb]

No. I'm using '01-'03 valve covers.

[FastCougar]

Since I have to pull the engine and inspect the low compression cylinders for damange or worn rings/valve guides, I planned on replacing the existing valve covers with these. The plan is remove the entire upper end from the engine in-car and then test fit these and see if the LIM & UIM fit OK. I first need to get to a Ford dealership and make sure they can get me the PCV valve, grommet fitting for PCV and center block-off plate (between heads). If everything fits up correctly, I will be fitting them on the engine after I get it fixed. I will also be talking to Dom about doing a COP setup and getting rid of my spark plug wires and DIS.

[fordrule]

sweet. sounds like a plan. i have been curious about doms COP setup

[blu_fuz]

I have '05 valve covers and all the spark plug coils with 18,000 miles, you need for your venture. I can even powder coat them for you.
Did anyone give you a price for their stuff yet?

I would go $125 for the 6 coils with rubber tubes and the two valve covers powder coated any color and shipped anywhere in USA.
If you need the wire harness for the 6 coils also, I have those available too.

[fordrule]

i will have to keep that in mind. that was my plan to buy some and have them powdercoated, but i want to make sure i can afford it first

[FastCougar]

I spoke with Dom from fordcontour.org concerning this and apparently, the "front" valve cover can't be used due to clearance issues with the SVT UIM and the COP units. To resolve this, he uses the 01-03 COP valve covers with the 04+ "rear" valve covers to take advantage of the 04+ PCV valve. FYI, "front" = near radiator & "rear" = near firewall. So, I'm trying to source an 01-03 "front" valve cover for my car since I will be using Dom's COP conversion harness.

[gamiller]

Trevor, is there a performance gain switching to COP? You'll need a new ECU tune for run it, right?

[brapple]

Trevor, is there a performance gain switching to COP? You'll need a new ECU tune for run it, right?


no. Doms wiring allows it to work with the current pcm.

[FastCougar]

No, ignition timing is ignition timing ... the ignition source shouldn't matter to the tune ... the tune simply says "ignite now" and shouldn't care how it's ignited ... that's up the coil/cop unit to interpret what it's told. Think OO for programming ... encapsulation ;)

[fordrule]

good info trevor. good luck on the mod, hope it also alleviates part of the oiling issue

[Drewmanfu0]

i checked the differences in a COP and DIS setup and the wiring shouldn't be all that hard, might be something to look into your self.

[gamiller]

Think OO for programming ... encapsulation ;)

I get your analogy; although I believe "abstraction" would be better since the PCM doesn't care how ignition is carried out. :)

Dom is selling harnesses for the COP conversion (http://www.fordcontour.org/Coil-Plug-Pre-order-l-t10284.html). They are $105 and do not include the COP units.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/19953/COP%20harness/IMG_0621.jpg

So nobody mentioned the elephant in the room. What is the reason to upgrade? If it's performance, what should we expect from it?

[Rikenbomb]

I get your analogy; although I believe "abstraction" would be better since the PCM doesn't care how ignition is carried out. :)

Dom is selling harnesses for the COP conversion (http://www.fordcontour.org/Coil-Plug-Pre-order-l-t10284.html). They are $105 and do not include the COP units.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/19953/COP%20harness/IMG_0621.jpg

So nobody mentioned the elephant in the room. What is the reason to upgrade? If it's performance, what should we expect from it?

Forgive me for asking the obvious, but I did not see it in this thread or Dom's other thread about the 2004+ engine.

Is this upgrade purely aesthetic? Or is there a performance benefit? If there is a performance benefit, what are should we expect?

Thanks

This is from Dom off his thread that can be found here:

Big Surprise COP Thread (http://www.fordcontour.org/Big-suprise-t9909.html)

Why is COP better? First off, gets rid of the spaghetti bowl on top the motor (worse in the case of straight 3L's due to having the coil up front instead of the rear). Honestly I never wanted to use a standard coil - But my overall understanding of the system was a little green in how to properly convert it to work on standard Non-COP EEC's. Other benefits include: Lifetime serviceable unit - COP has a lifespan of the engine itself... therefore no replacing wires ever again. The COP units also allow for tighter spark control as there is no latency between the coil firing and the spark traveling the cable. This is probably one of the most "usable/felt" benefits as throttle response and torque become a big factor on the bottom end in relation to spark control. Plus, no wires means no breaking down of the internal core of the wire, no misfires and no missing under heavy load from cross talk between the spark plug wires. Plus you can now add COP to the list of items made to work on Contours with existing electrical hardware.

I just copied and pasted this from FCO. Hope this helps.

[fordrule]

so why the 01-03 valve covers over the 04-05 front valve covers?

[Rikenbomb]

Check out BuckeyeSVT's post below for the correct reason on the '04+ valve covers.

[buckeyesvt]

Hi there,

Actually COP clearance with the 2.5L manifold is not the issue - Hood clearance and manifold fitment are. With the oil cap location on the 04/05 engines is raised further up than the 01-03 valve covers which causes a hood interference issue when the hood is shut. I did a little more studying with the 04+ valve covers - I used both front and rear 02 Taurus valve covers on Rikenbombs because he still has the center breather... However going back last night and looking at the 04/05 covers you cannot use them with the 2.5L/SVT UIM. The PCV channel is too tall and interferes with the outer runners. The COP's make no difference, the valve cover can't place them anywhere else due to the plug holes being fixed. If you want to use the 04/05 covers with the newer PCV system (at least just the rear) you will need to use the 3L upper manifold.

-Dom

[fordrule]

ohh that stinks for those that have there heads port matched....

[gamiller]

Actually COP clearance with the 2.5L manifold is not the issue - Hood clearance and manifold fitment are. I did a little more studying with the 04+ valve covers - I used both front and rear 02 Taurus valve covers on Rikenbombs because he still has the center breather...

Dom, did you check fitment on a Cougar? Or are you talking about the Contour when you say the hood won't clear the front 04 cover?

[buckeyesvt]

gamiller - Contour's have a different rake on the hood, they clear the oil cap (just barely). Cougar's on the other hand have a shallower angle (flatter) hood which doesn't clear (sticks up around an inch too high) which prevents the right side of the hood from closing properly.

I have the full 05 setup on my personal car and a few other's I've built... However in the Cougar's case (since I have 3 of them at the shop now for engines) that setup won't work. Attached is a pic of my engine in my SVT.

-Dom

[gamiller]

Very nice, Dom. :cool:

[Blackcoog]

gamiller - Contour's have a different rake on the hood, they clear the oil cap (just barely). Cougar's on the other hand have a shallower angle (flatter) hood which doesn't clear (sticks up around an inch too high) which prevents the right side of the hood from closing properly.

I have the full 05 setup on my personal car and a few other's I've built... However in the Cougar's case (since I have 3 of them at the shop now for engines) that setup won't work. Attached is a pic of my engine in my SVT.

-Dom

Are you stating the full 05 setup won't work in the Cougar?

[buckeyesvt]

Are you stating the full 05 setup won't work in the Cougar?

What I am stating is this....

You cannot use the stock 04/05 Taurus/Sable 3.0L front valve cover in a Cougar. The oil cap won't clear the hood closing.

You cannot use the 04/05 valve covers with an SVT UIM - They are too tall and the UIM will not fit down on top of the LIM correctly. You need to use the 00-03 valve covers and the SVT UIM will fit just fine.

In essence you are correct... a "full" 05 3L won't work without a minor correction to the front valve cover (Using the 3L intake) or both valve covers if you decide to do oval to split port with the 2.5L intake.

-Dom

[Blackcoog]

Hmm in your picture which I assume is an 05 valve cover the cap looks like it sits fairly low. I wouldn't have thought there would be an issue with that cover. It almost looks like the cap is lower than the mount but I suppose it could be the angle of the picture.

[buckeyesvt]

Looks are deceiving because I painted my valve covers gloss black :biggrin:

These pictures below may help out the explaining without me saying a word. The silver valve cover is the 04/05 style cover, the black is the older 00-03 (you can see the design and angle of the oil cap is totally different). Also you can see the height difference with regard to the SVT UIM fitment.

And the last pic is so you can see it's actually in a Cougar...not a Contour.;)

-Dom

[gamiller]

The pics sure do clarify things. Thanks, Dom!

[canadiancougar]

What I am stating is this....

You cannot use the stock 04/05 Taurus/Sable 3.0L front valve cover in a Cougar. The oil cap won't clear the hood closing.

You cannot use the 04/05 valve covers with an SVT UIM - They are too tall and the UIM will not fit down on top of the LIM correctly. You need to use the 00-03 valve covers and the SVT UIM will fit just fine.

In essence you are correct... a "full" 05 3L won't work without a minor correction to the front valve cover (Using the 3L intake) or both valve covers if you decide to do oval to split port with the 2.5L intake.

-Dom

I have a full 05 Taurus 3L sitting in my cougar right now with the 05 taurus cam covers. I assure you the hood closes fine, no issues there. But I also have a Kaminari hood so I don't know if that makes a huge difference.

And incase anyone is wondering, a ST220 UIM also will not fit down on top of the LIM correctly, because it hits the rear cam cover making it impossible to bolt up to the LIM correctly.

I will be doing COP in the future, I already PM'd Dom on CEG to get some additional info.
Scott

[fordrule]

post some pics

[canadiancougar]

post some pics

I'm going to try to go see my car today and will get a few pics to post tonight. what exactly do you want me to focus the pictures on, the hood being able to close?

[FastCougar]

The problem with this setup is two fold:

1) The SVT UIM CAN NOT fit with the 04+ valve covers due to clearance issues with the SVT UIM hitting the valve covers prior to being seated on the LIM.
2) The 04+ valve covers from the Taurus/Escape prohibits the Cougar's STOCK HOOD from closing due to the placement of the oil filler neck/cap.

[buckeyesvt]

I have a full 05 Taurus 3L sitting in my cougar right now with the 05 taurus cam covers. I assure you the hood closes fine, no issues there. But I also have a Kaminari hood so I don't know if that makes a huge difference.

And incase anyone is wondering, a ST220 UIM also will not fit down on top of the LIM correctly, because it hits the rear cam cover making it impossible to bolt up to the LIM correctly.

I will be doing COP in the future, I already PM'd Dom on CEG to get some additional info.
Scott

I'm happy it fits with a kaminari hood, however I can 100% assure you it doesn't close with a stock hood (which the majority of owners have). There are plenty of combinations which I'm sure will work differently however I'm basing this upgrade with stock body parts only.

I don't go to or ever sign on to my account on CEG so if you are waiting for an answer you will be waiting an eternity for a response.

PM me here or visit FordContour.Org.

-Dom

[canadiancougar]

Sorry I took so long to post pics, my sleep scheduel is all messed up on the weekends because I work nights. I went and checked out the clearence issue and remembered that there was a slight problem when we put the engine in. The Kaminari hood will close and latch shut with the full stock oil cap but will be sitting directly on the oil cap. The oil cap comes apart into 2 pieces and the top half of it was removed. With the top half removed the hood closes fine. As you can see in the first picture, there is some nubs on the toop of oil cap that I will be removing and placing a Roush oil cap cover over in hopes that the hood will close over it.

[buckeyesvt]

No rub huh?... :facepalm:

Interesting choice of color... ermm.. :puke: At least you won't fail to get anyone's attention at a car show. :biggrin:

-Dom

[gamiller]

Dom, the IACV also rubs against the stock hood on my 01 Taurus V6. But the picture above shows you left that in place. No rubbing? Or would capping and relocating be in poor form?

[buckeyesvt]

I can't vouch for the 01-03 intakes as I don't use them - However I know with certainty that the 96-99 3L (split port) and 04-05 3L intakes don't rub where the IACV is. I have 3 Cougars in for engines - One of them is the first Cougar I've done. The rest are following the one example so I'll have even more info as time elapses here wrapping up the first build.

-Dom