Fuel Pump Limits

[Blackcoog]

Anyone have any idea what the stock fuel pump limits at? I keep adding fuel up top but it doesn't seem to help. Over on CEG the stock pump was stated to handle about 300whp. Anyone else running FI on a stock pump or aftermarket pump? I have a walbro 255 pump sitting on the shelf so I'll drop that in quick before the dyno.

[tay76]

I dont know about the stock pump but the focus svt pump is good up 425whp and direct bolt on if you are returnless. (so i've read)

[Shagmonkey]

I'm running 350bhp and needed an "In-Line Fuel Booster" to supply enough fuel at max revs.

[Blackcoog]

I dont know about the stock pump but the focus svt pump is good up 425whp and direct bolt on if you are returnless. (so i've read)

I have a return system so the walbro pump I have is the way to go. For the returnless cars the focus pump would be the one to go with.

[Topik]

their is slight "Modification" to make that walbro pump work FYI unless you have already had the pleasure and know what to do.

[Blackcoog]

It looks like the connector needs to be swapped over so it will plug in. I'm sure I'll figure out the rest when I pull it. From this how to it looks like that is about it: http://www.newcougar.org/forums/how-tos/2008-how-walbro-pump-install-return-style-cars.html

[Topik]

I hope your dropping the tank. The major issues is mostly with the depth of the pump itself.

[Reebs]

I am running my 3L turbo with SVT cams and I range between 7psi -12psi and I haven't outflowed the stock fuel pump yet. I bet I am very very close to borderline though. Good thing I have a wideband! :D Is the SVT fuel pump the same as the cougar v6 fuel pump (155lph)? I have a 190lph fuel pump from one of my return style contour parts car, and I think I'll be dropping that in to be safe. Do you guys think a 190lph fuel pump with flow enough for 375-400 at the wheels? Anyone know how many liters per hour the focus fuel pump flows?

[Drewmanfu0]

All I know is turbo19psi's booster pump went on the fritz and his car was on the edge of detonation at idle it seemed.

[Badazzcougar]

I have a booster pump as well and it seems to be fine. Even after the tune it still runs rich. If I can lean this thing out alittle more I know theres alot more power to be had. But for an everyday driver its fine;)

[blustreak]

All I know is turbo19psi's booster pump went on the fritz and his car was on the edge of detonation at idle it seemed.

This has brought me into this discussion because I now have the car and want/need to replace the current fuel pump. It was suggested to me that I go with something like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aeromotive-11103-Tsunami-Electric-Fuel-Pump_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33555QQihZ004QQite mZ140143404015QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW) but I think it may be a bit overkill if it even functions properly. Any suggestions on a different pump that would function well and be reliable. The car is no longer being built to drag. I just want to have to to work on, drive for fun and maybe the occasional 1/4 mile.

I guess I just feel like $300 for a fuel pump is a bit excessive.

[Blackcoog]

I am running my 3L turbo with SVT cams and I range between 7psi -12psi and I haven't outflowed the stock fuel pump yet. I bet I am very very close to borderline though. Good thing I have a wideband! :D Is the SVT fuel pump the same as the cougar v6 fuel pump (155lph)? I have a 190lph fuel pump from one of my return style contour parts car, and I think I'll be dropping that in to be safe. Do you guys think a 190lph fuel pump with flow enough for 375-400 at the wheels? Anyone know how many liters per hour the focus fuel pump flows?

The V6 Cougar pump is the same as the Contour SVT pump. I've replaced both.

[Blackcoog]

I hope your dropping the tank. The major issues is mostly with the depth of the pump itself.

I'm not sure how dropping the tank would help other than adding lots of extra work. You can get access to everything from up top. The pump itself looks identical in size to the stock pump so I'm not sure how the depth would be an issue. Dan G. dropped his tank because he didn't want to cut into the floor to get the pump out. I happily cut into the floor when I pulled the pump previously so I didn't have to spend extra time messing with the tank. ;)

[Gorman]

The V6 Cougar pump is the same as the Contour SVT pump. I've replaced both.
...just a thought. I replaced my stock fuel regulator (return) with an aftermarket one. Could one of the factors affecting A/F on an FI setup be the positioning of the vacuum line for the regulator and the setting of the pressure . Also does the pressure pulse suppressor restrict flow to the rail. Hope this helps some....G.

[Blackcoog]

An aftermarket regulator would raise pressure in the rail by limiting the fuel that returns to the tank on the return line. If the pump can't support the amount of fuel the injectors are putting out then this won't help. It's more of a half ass replacement when you don't go to the dyno to get more fuel added up top to cover the extra air. This is why others listed above that they have boost a pumps which help increase the pump capacity.

[Topik]

Idk cutting the floor is so half ass. The tank is really not hard to drop at all.

[Badazzcougar]

Idk cutting the floor is so half ass. The tank is really not hard to drop at all.

I know its really guetto,but I can understand if you have a car that has 100k and everything is rotted nicley under there,I to would be all over cutting the floor;)

[Gorman]

An aftermarket regulator would raise pressure in the rail by limiting the fuel that returns to the tank on the return line. If the pump can't support the amount of fuel the injectors are putting out then this won't help. It's more of a half ass replacement when you don't go to the dyno to get more fuel added up top to cover the extra air. This is why others listed above that they have boost a pumps which help increase the pump capacity.
erm yeah...i was was just trying to raise the point that maybe the fuel filter or pulse suppressor or the pressure reg was a choke point to the fuel flow....G.

[Topik]

I know its really guetto,but I can understand if you have a car that has 100k and everything is rotted nicley under there,I to would be all over cutting the floor;)

somewhat understandable but not only do you now have a ghetto cut up chassis, you just allowed a path for the inside to rot.

[Reebs]

somewhat understandable but not only do you now have a ghetto cut up chassis, you just allowed a path for the inside to rot.

I have seen it done very very well. The sheet metal can be peeled back and then gently tapped down to perfection just as it was with a good rubber mallet. Then seal with silicone and it is better than new. :) I have gone the route of dropping the tank and it sucks. Nuff said.

[Topik]

its not that bad really. The filler neck is maybe the biggest pain.

[Blackcoog]

The new pump is in and it kicks ass. :thumbsup:

[Topik]

good to hear. Does it whine at all?

[Blackcoog]

It's noisy but nothing a small patch of sound deadening won't solve. If the radio is off and the car is idling you can barely hear it.

[warmonger]

Anyone have any idea what the stock fuel pump limits at? I keep adding fuel up top but it doesn't seem to help. Over on CEG the stock pump was stated to handle about 300whp. Anyone else running FI on a stock pump or aftermarket pump? I have a walbro 255 pump sitting on the shelf so I'll drop that in quick before the dyno.


That number comes from my testing back in 2003 and is based on a 1999 Contour SVT return-style system. The setup was a 3L engine with water-air intercooler on about 6psi boost setting down 300wHP. Testing was done on the dyno at Streetflight, now called ADC. I was there with Keith as we were trying to add fuel to the car just to see what it would do to the power.
We started trying to richen up the air fuel through the tune and it only got a little bit more rich in the midrange but the top-end got no better. We added more fuel and in the low-midrange the engine got more fuel and the very top end stayed a bit lean. We came to the assumption that at high volume the stock pump just wasn't able to supply the added fuel.
This was backed up by the results I had when I switched to the Walbro 255LPH pump. Same tune but with just a swap on the pump and the top end went very rich after that, to the point that I had to use the emanage and lean out some of the fuel.

So that basically told me that at least MY fuel pump was limited to around 300 whP, or about 290-300ft-lbs of torque at higher rpms.
As long as you are careful during testing you should be able to establish the limits of your fuel pump yourself but I imagine it would be similar to what I had experienced.

[Topik]

yeah. I have some how managed to just get used to the intercooler pump and fuel pump haha

[warmonger]

I hope your dropping the tank. The major issues is mostly with the depth of the pump itself.

Why? I just popped out my back seat, and then the wiring rubber insulator. Then I undid the fuel pump retaining ring and realized the pump wouldn't fit.
I took tin snips and made to radial cuts in the metal around the hole and bent the metal up. He pump assembly came right out very easily then and I proceeded to swap the pump body in the assembly. I used the same sender/strainer and when I swapped the pump I had to put the wire pins into a different plug for the walbro but that was it. I made sure the pump was retained correctly to the assembly then reinstalled it. Then I pushed the piece of metal I cut back into place and used RTV sealant beads to seal the two cuts I made, and finally reinserted the grommet.
Pretty easy done that way.

[warmonger]

I have seen it done very very well. The sheet metal can be peeled back and then gently tapped down to perfection just as it was with a good rubber mallet. Then seal with silicone and it is better than new. :) I have gone the route of dropping the tank and it sucks. Nuff said.

Haha, exactly what I posted. Also if someone were concerned about it being fixed back in place they can cut a sheet metal ring with snips and rivet it down. Then it is easily removed later if a fuel pump issue pops up again.

[Blackcoog]

That number comes from my testing back in 2003 and is based on a 1999 Contour SVT return-style system. The setup was a 3L engine with water-air intercooler on about 6psi boost setting down 300wHP. Testing was done on the dyno at Streetflight, now called ADC. I was there with Keith as we were trying to add fuel to the car just to see what it would do to the power.
We started trying to richen up the air fuel through the tune and it only got a little bit more rich in the midrange but the top-end got no better. We added more fuel and in the low-midrange the engine got more fuel and the very top end stayed a bit lean. We came to the assumption that at high volume the stock pump just wasn't able to supply the added fuel.
This was backed up by the results I had when I switched to the Walbro 255LPH pump. Same tune but with just a swap on the pump and the top end went very rich after that, to the point that I had to use the emanage and lean out some of the fuel.

So that basically told me that at least MY fuel pump was limited to around 300 whP, or about 290-300ft-lbs of torque at higher rpms.
As long as you are careful during testing you should be able to establish the limits of your fuel pump yourself but I imagine it would be similar to what I had experienced.


That is pretty much exactly what I was experiencing when adding more fuel for the supercharger setup I have.

[Topik]

Why? I just popped out my back seat, and then the wiring rubber insulator. Then I undid the fuel pump retaining ring and realized the pump wouldn't fit.
I took tin snips and made to radial cuts in the metal around the hole and bent the metal up. He pump assembly came right out very easily then and I proceeded to swap the pump body in the assembly. I used the same sender/strainer and when I swapped the pump I had to put the wire pins into a different plug for the walbro but that was it. I made sure the pump was retained correctly to the assembly then reinstalled it. Then I pushed the piece of metal I cut back into place and used RTV sealant beads to seal the two cuts I made, and finally reinserted the grommet.
Pretty easy done that way.

Its just ghetto period. Maybe if you rewelded your floor (which would be a no no around the fuel tank) then it would be ok.

[wadespencer99]

Its just ghetto period. Maybe if you rewelded your floor (which would be a no no around the fuel tank) then it would be ok.


I agree it's more ghetto than not, but mine's cut too :ty:


:rofl:


I dropped the tank once, and when it came time to do it again, I said f that and cut it just like Warmonger described.

[warmonger]

haha Right ON.

Ghetto it might be but who's got their nose up under my rear seat finding out....:tongue:


It's all boils down to time and money, and where your priorities are. For me time is money as the saying goes. Truthfully.

[wadespencer99]

I've worked on one Cougar that had the pump replaced from a dealership, and THEY even cut the floor. Now THAT'S ghetto, especially when I sure they charged them billed hours for removal/replacement of the gas tank :disgust: