Has a non-SVT'd 2.5 NA Cougar run 14's?

[azbobbybooshay10]

So with how quick I've run in the past, I keep inching closer to the 14-second barrier. I'm getting a Fidanza flywheel and a brand new SVT clutch, as well as new suspension and getting rid of the bad vacuum leak and CEL I had when I ran my 15.3 @ 89. I think with the right conditions and a perfect run, I might be able to crank out a 14. That got me thinking, has there been a Cougar thats run 14's on OEM manifolds without any F/I help? I know GMK has run a 14.7, but he had SVT mani's as well as alot of weight reduction. I'm just curious, IDK if its been done before or not...

[StealthyWeasel]

cougarguy1802 has

[B3NN3TT]

Those Canadians run some stupid times up there.

[StealthyWeasel]

try drag tires, dump it at 6 grand and see if you can get that run into the 14's

[CougarGuy1802]

dude. i wish i had a timeslip for nay sayers, but with my kdw2s, torsen, two front seats, removal of back seats, door panels, and the tune i have from my apexi SAFC to help with the extreme richness problem that these things have stock(11.1) it can be done, drop at 5500 cuz the track is usually grabbier than a road.

[StealthyWeasel]

no I believe you. 100% possible.

[CougarGuy1802]

but geeze i cannot wait for my nautilus kit. i start my new job tommorow, so the cougar is gonna finish paving its path :)

[BigBalledOX]

torsen

Hands down the single Best. Mod. EvAR. for a Cougar.

[CougarGuy1802]

even in the snow its amazing with my blizzaks. i do not recommend the kdws in the snow, hence the n/a on the snow portion of tire rack rating. HAHA.


i feel the torsen was my single most satisfying mod yet.

[azbobbybooshay10]

Yeah that time is totally believable. I'm gonna try for it with a full interior, open diff, and no tuning though, we'll see what happens.

[CougarGuy1802]

15.3 is close, sounds like a few powershifts away to me :)

[CougarGuy1802]

i really would recommend the kdw2 or drag radial or somethin though, when i launch it is unreal compared to other tires iv had on this car.


also that poor differential. i rememebr when i blew mine out, racin a f-250 super duty. bastid kept puttin it in 4wd so i was gettin rebelious on him. LMAO!


also, the kdws i think ended my poor differential, in 6 months too. lmao

[StealthyWeasel]

Im not sure whats the big deal with an LSD

I've driven a cougar with and LSD (2.5 mind you) and then mine.. and I can feel no difference. Meh, i've never opened my tranny, maybe theres an LSD in there already :biggrin:

[99mcougar]

I would say LSD would help but then again I've never driven one, but it just makes sence in my mind. dam i need to make it to a track this summer BAD.

[GrandMasterKhan]

my first run was a 15.3... though i was babying it. lol.

89 mph trap speed is the kicker here though. Your about 4 mph slower than i was when i was running my 14s. Thats ALOT.

I'd with 150lbs of weight reduction should net you a 15.15...maybe a mircle 5000rpm launch with good tires and downwind you might nail a 14.99.

I wish you the best of luck! I think its possible.

[EternalOne]

Im not sure whats the big deal with an LSD

You'll know as soon as you get some spin. ;) Without an LSD its sit and do the one-wheel peel, while with the LSD you'll still have a chance of gripping. Not a big deal on launches and such, but during corners you're more apt to lose traction on one side w/ no LSD causing the other side to lose total power.

i really would recommend the kdw2 or drag radial or somethin though, when i launch it is unreal compared to other tires iv had on this car.

What other tires have you ran with, though? I've ran everything under the sun (benefit of having a warehouse full of tires) and nothing I've ran compares against my Toyo's for stickiness. The KDW2's are good tires, I'd rate them up there against the Nankang's and Nitto's, but the Toyo's are still on top for me. (Sidewall strength is amazing on these things.)

Bobby, I'd be interested to see what you can pull off, as well. Unfortunately the one drawback you have is your location -- that heat will kill yer times. =( (Was stationed in Yuma for 2 yrs, ugh.)

E1

[CougarGuy1802]

i havent ran toyos, but michelin, pirelli, and other bf goodrichs mostly, i do hear great things about toyo.

[StealthyWeasel]

You'll know as soon as you get some spin. ;) Without an LSD its sit and do the one-wheel peel, while with the LSD you'll still have a chance of gripping. Not a big deal on launches and such, but during corners you're more apt to lose traction on one side w/ no LSD causing the other side to lose total power.

With 213fwhp I can smoke em to hell, but with slicks they plant. And plant straight, for that matter. The wheels spin evenly.....

and I've never lost traction while cornering in the max of the TQ band..

[jaged]

they you werent cornering enough, did it all the time last summer autoxing but my car was set up a little better for it

[InnovaZero]

So with how quick I've run in the past, I keep inching closer to the 14-second barrier. I'm getting a Fidanza flywheel and a brand new SVT clutch, as well as new suspension and getting rid of the bad vacuum leak and CEL I had when I ran my 15.3 @ 89. I think with the right conditions and a perfect run, I might be able to crank out a 14. That got me thinking, has there been a Cougar thats run 14's on OEM manifolds without any F/I help? I know GMK has run a 14.7, but he had SVT mani's as well as alot of weight reduction. I'm just curious, IDK if its been done before or not...

Do you have headers, unless I'm blind...I see a lack of one in your mod list. Headers after tune would jump your Quarter at least .3 -.5 seconds.

[azbobbybooshay10]

Negative, no headers. Just cat-back. Flywheel came in today, and payment for clutch went out today. I'll have the car up in a week or so, then its baby-time for the clutch. Hopefully I can get enough miles on it before May 20th for the last Autocross of the Spring Season.

Heat is gonna suck, I was hoping I'd be done earlier in the spring than this. Good thing is the track is open at night, and its outside of the Phoenix Metro "heat bubble" so it cools off alot once the sun goes down. I figure some nicely wrapped bags of ice, and possibly rigging up some sort of "cold ice box" for the intake will help me out.

I'm gonna try for the 14's, I've got 4 more months of car payments left. Then I'll start building a 3L and just run the living piss out of this 2.5 and get everything I can. I want 14's on a non-SVT 2.5...

[GrandMasterKhan]

headers will be a GReat power mod. You should really get them if your hell bent on 14s. ALL other bolt on mods are worthless compared to the power headers will provide. They do however introduce ALOT of radiant heat into the engine bay, enough to give an SVT radiator equipped car a workout. JetHot coatings are very important if your serious about performance.

additionally. COOLING is more important than any mod you could possibly have. Use your trip computer to be 100% certain your coolant temps are BELOW 200 degrees before you launch. 189 would be ideal, if at any point your coolant temps go over 200degrees on the stock ecu then you will loose HP. IF you have trouble keeping the temps down run your A/C with heat. It will turn the fans on and bring the temps down.

If you dont already have a cold air intake...then you should probably go back to the stock airbox if the ambient temps are over 80-90 degrees. High IAT temps will also cause a loss of HP, so keep them down as best as possible. That means leave the hood open during staging if possible. When i ran my cougar @ fest I had ZERO wait time before i hit the tree. Even 2 mins if idling will cause the IAT temps to SKYROCKET to 120+ especially if you have an open filter intake. I have seen IAT temps of 145-155 with an open air intake.....

A cold air intake is Much less prone to high iat temps and usually required 3-5 mins of idling for the IAT temps to really go up though they would usually never exceed more than 25 degrees above ambient. (after a long period of idling)

[StealthyWeasel]

and for the price of cooling mods, im not sure why using the intercooling effect nitrous has is not considered. I'd rather do that then pay for a CAI, SVT radiator, oil cooler, etc etc

[jaged]

b/c nitrous is a temporary fix, the others are constant. and if bobbo wants to run the same car at an autox nitrous is illegal.

[StealthyWeasel]

good point.

[EternalOne]

With 213fwhp I can smoke em to hell, but with slicks they plant. And plant straight, for that matter. The wheels spin evenly.....

Then you must have an LSD, or you have no idea what your car is really doing. Without an LSD if one wheel slips ALL power goes to that wheel, its the reason they exist. Propagation of misinformation helps no-one.

can't say I agree, although GMK and warmonger might say running uncoated headers is stupid, I never saw a difference in MSDS headers vs stock vs weapon R upon logging IAT, water temp, and etc values. Performance difference, again, not noticed.

(boggle) I'm not even touching that one man. Fact remains that it IS a performance killer, especially under our hoods where the temps are already very high. (Even worse if you run an extremely low, fully enclosed, aero tested bodykit like I do.) Elimination of heat is a high priority for all builders, not just for performance but also for reliability.

The CAI stuff is not important at all in the winter (under 45 degrees)

We're talking about an AZ car here, even in the dead of winter at night the avg low is ~45. You put 200+ degree temps under the hood and use a short-ram you're asking for heatsoak issues, and the stock box is restrictive, and suffers from massive heatsoak itself (black plastic is great for absorbing heat).

E1

[GrandMasterKhan]

yes so apparently this kid knows more than all of neco's weatherd and experianced members. My bad you just do what you want, no need to ask us for advice. :shrug:

[StealthyWeasel]

Good lord. I deleted all my comments so this stays civil.

[StealthyWeasel]

(boggle) I'm not even touching that one man. Fact remains that it IS a performance killer, especially under our hoods where the temps are already very high. (Even worse if you run an extremely low, fully enclosed, aero tested bodykit like I do.) Elimination of heat is a high priority for all builders, not just for performance but also for reliability.

E1

Oops I said warmonger, I meant demonSVT.

When you said fully enclosed, aero tested does that mean theres supposed to be a (cooling) performance gain from it?

[azbobbybooshay10]

Wow, this thread got interesting.:drama:

[StealthyWeasel]

eh, whatever, just varying opinion. Theres truth in both sides.

All you need to do to hit 14's:

-Headers, Y, Test pipe (no cat), catback
-SVT Parts (lite mod) is desired, intake etc
-Removed back seats, gut hatch (remove hatch if you can)
-Fidanza and SVT should help you, especially on the launch

At the track (on drag tires) I launch at around 2500 (I've dumped at 4000-5000 but it just spins) WOT and modulating traction with the clutch. Sure, its quite damaging, but the SVT clutch is great at the slip/grab.. use the clutch as the traction switch.

I rev out 1st and touch the limiter if I spin to regain traction, flick the clutch and hit 2nd. From the 2-3 switch I don't use the clutch when I get outta 2nd, basically I let off the gas a bit, push out of 2nd, WOT & hold then half press the clutch to engage 3rd. I've way over revved on this technique (I have no idea what happened to the rev limiter) before and hit north of 7500 when I missed the gear. You should have no problem, I've never seen the rev limiter disappear on an untouched PCM. I had a problem with extreme tune w/ adjusting the limiter, I believe that is what to blame.

[azbobbybooshay10]

Thats the thing though, I'm trying to get there without any of those mods I don't already have. Car will be done next week, then its time to break in the clutch properly before I hit the track.

[StealthyWeasel]

its going to be tough, very tough. I would probably break something in the process if I was driving to attain that time with your mods, so be careful.

[GrandMasterKhan]

i found that launching @ higher rpm netting better times. We simply dont have the tq for a lower rpm launch, and IF you do get traction you might be doomed with wheelhop. Additionally with smooth wheelspin you are much less likely to break something.

Thats why I found launching @ 4500-5000rpms the best. Wheel Spin then catch and quickly shift into 2nd (since i would be near redline @ point of traction)

Additionally, lightweight flywheels reduce engine inertia, essentially making launching more inconsistant. :shrug:

I ran all my times with a completely stock tranny. Stock clutch, stock flywheel, stock diff.

[StealthyWeasel]

from experience, I feel that the fidanza made the launch easier, as long as you're good with the gas pedal. The engine moves up/down in its range faster, so you have overall more control. I felt that was very helpful in modulating the launch. I agree with launching the 2.5 at high rpms, over 5000 works if you can keep traction- again using the clutch as the traction switch. The stock diff is good for a decent amount of abuse, I must say I am NOT easy on my car especially at the track, and the stock diff has been just fine.

With a 3L, I can't launch nearly that high, you must completely change the launch style.

[GrandMasterKhan]

i didnt feather the clutch at all. 5000rpms and clutch drop. I went through the water trap to reduce traction in order to eliminate any potential wheelhop. The burnout off the line spun the water off as it pulled me forward. Once I gained 100% traction i was thrown back into the seat and it was a quick into 2nd and down the track. I deepstaged in order to lessen the effect of spinning off the line.

Anything less than 4000rpms netting bogging or wheelhop. (I GUESS you could slip the clutch but that would have just heated up the clutch and led to premature wear. I put about 25 runs in that day and my clutch didnt skip a beat. nearly all runs where back to back w/o stopping or any waiting time in the staging lanes)

dragging a built 3.0 with a built tranny vs dragging a non svt 2.5 with a stock tranny is a different ballgame. Very different powerbands very different traction and launch control required.

[StealthyWeasel]

dragging a built 3.0 with a built tranny vs dragging a non svt 2.5 with a stock tranny is a different ballgame. Very different powerbands very different traction and launch control required.

I believe I did say that.

Maybe your track was different, but when I went through the waterbox and tried that method I spun then bogged on the shift, even when I spun the water off and grabbed traction. And that is just as hard on the clutch. Dumpin' isn't any better. Drag racing is drag racing.