65mm TB = throttle hang?

[StealthyWeasel]

I just installed my 65mm TB on the 3L.

For some reason, the throttle likes to hang. The speed bleed on the plate was epoxied shut, so I dont think the TB is leaking because when I coax the revs down (going slow) and then stop it will idle a bit high (~900) but will idle fine. It has an SVT tps. does the TPS have to be re-programmed to the values the 65mm is putting out? Sometimes the revs will rise and hang ~2000rpm higher than I let off at.

Please help.

[StealthyWeasel]

also should I be using the mustang GT tps? It seems as though this is what I need, from who i've talked to.

[bensenvill]

be carefull with the tps's, some of them rotate in the opposite direction than ours, they are not necissarily interchangeable

[J-Man]

All the how-to's that I have read have said to use the SVTC tps.

This is interesting to me since I just picked up a 65mm tb off of eBay.

[ilovemycar]

As long as you used the TPS that came on it, or an SVT TPS, you are ok.

As far as the throttle hang...it could be a number of things. Did you tighten the spring on the TB. What i mean is does the throttle plate "snap shut" when you let off the throttle? You may have to turn the spring one more time to make it tight.

[StealthyWeasel]

I moved the TB with my intake off via the gas pedal, and my dad watched. There really wasn't anything to speak of, the TB closes promptly. Im sorta confused whats the deal.

[J-Man]

I would just try wrapping the spring around one more time to see if that helps get it shut even quicker.

[StealthyWeasel]

I suppose I could try, but its when I let off the gas and clutch in to go into the next gear the revs will rise, then hang.

[StealthyWeasel]

P0122 Throttle Position (TP) sensor circuit low input


It threw a CEL. Thats the code that was pulled. Any ideas as to what the problems add up to here?

[StealthyWeasel]

IMO the TPS is bad.. I guess I solved my own problem :)

[ilovemycar]

Ya replace the TPS. Maybe the one you got is bad.

Where did you get the TB? What i mean is who made it for you/did you make it for yourself? Did they use the SVT throttle plate?

[StealthyWeasel]

Someone made it for me. It has an SVT shaft, but stang throttle bore and plate. IMO I think it has the mustang GT TPS on it, because it doesn't look too great and the one on the SVT unit that was sent looked pretty good. Ima change the TPS and find out.

[cpapashley]

IMO the TPS is bad.. I guess I solved my own problem :)

I am impressed with your deductive reasoning there Stealthy, just had a quick glance in the alldata, and its summation of a p0122 was "replace the TPS"

Hope you sort this one out and the car gets back in tip top condition.

[StealthyWeasel]

thank you good sir!

Now, what is alldata? Never heard of it.

[jrak123]

You need to swap out the TPS from YOUR SVT TB Josh

[StealthyWeasel]

what happened to the TPS that was on the SVT TB that was sent to you? was it on there? Reason being is a I send icefury my SVT tb with the TPS on there, cuz he said he sent you the TB he had w/ the TPS on there also. So I don't have one, I'll go buy one I suppose.

[jrak123]

what happened to the TPS that was on the SVT TB that was sent to you? was it on there? Reason being is a I send icefury my SVT tb with the TPS on there, cuz he said he sent you the TB he had w/ the TPS on there also. So I don't have one, I'll go buy one I suppose.
That is the TPS that is on the there now.(the one that came with his TB) The 65mm TB I had for you didn't have a TPS on it. So just swapp yours out with the one I sent

[StealthyWeasel]

so the one on there now is the SVT TPS that came on the SVT tb sent to icefury? I don't have my TPS anymore.. he swore this one was good.. I dunno

[jrak123]

Yeah, that is the one that came with the SVT TB

[StealthyWeasel]

alright, thanks.

[cpapashley]

thank you good sir!

Now, what is alldata? Never heard of it.

Just an online workshop manual, costs about $30 a year. Just comes in handy I find, even though it does not have australian specs for me, it cover 90% of the vehicle for me. Because there is no haynes/chilton etc the only workshop manual on offer is the Mazda oem $250 :eek:

http://www.alldatadiy.com/index.html

[RodneyBur]

why not just order a chiltons/haynes or ford repair CD from ebay?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&mppfqy=mpv+manual&satitle=mpv+manual&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=41071&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fpos=41071&lsot=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fpos=41071

[cpapashley]

why not just order a chiltons/haynes or ford repair CD from ebay?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&mppfqy=mpv+manual&satitle=mpv+manual&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=41071&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fpos=41071&lsot=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fpos=41071


Oh how I wish they had one of those for my Australian:( spec MPV


But that is definitely a better way to go for the contour/cougars

[StealthyWeasel]

well the real problem is that the gasket is wrong, and is sneaking in through the little inlet cut into the TB on the side that mates to the intake manifold. I'll have to cut a custom gasket.

[RodneyBur]

I thin aluminum plate with gaskets on both sides, one SVT to the UIM and one GT to the TB should work good.

[StealthyWeasel]

Nope, not the gasket, nevermind. Its the cam. The TPS was indeed bad, but the actual problem is that the TB doesn't return fast enough to close ALL the way. It gets hung up JUST enough for it to remain open. when you SLAM WOT, it'll return but not enough, and it gets hung open, thus "raising" the revs to a point then stopping where the TB is hung open. Its a cable/bracket issue, I'll take the gaurenteed solution method this time and just let my dad fix it, cuz its annoying me, LOL

[J-Man]

Let me know your solution Josh, I'm hoping my install goes smoothly for me.

[StealthyWeasel]

np justin-

actually, you're sorta right about my unit. Winding the spring tighter would fix the problem at hand, but wouldn't solve the destructive problem thats the source. The bracket is cocked slightly and its going to wear the cable, I'll have to figure out another way to fix this. The bent bracket makes the tb cable move less freely, and in turn is not allowing the tb to close all the way.

[warmonger]

I just installed my 65mm TB on the 3L.

For some reason, the throttle likes to hang. The speed bleed on the plate was epoxied shut, so I dont think the TB is leaking because when I coax the revs down (going slow) and then stop it will idle a bit high (~900) but will idle fine. It has an SVT tps. does the TPS have to be re-programmed to the values the 65mm is putting out? Sometimes the revs will rise and hang ~2000rpm higher than I let off at.

Please help.

You've got a vacuum leak.

[warmonger]

Nope, not the gasket, nevermind. Its the cam. The TPS was indeed bad, but the actual problem is that the TB doesn't return fast enough to close ALL the way. It gets hung up JUST enough for it to remain open. when you SLAM WOT, it'll return but not enough, and it gets hung open, thus "raising" the revs to a point then stopping where the TB is hung open. Its a cable/bracket issue, I'll take the gaurenteed solution method this time and just let my dad fix it, cuz its annoying me, LOL


Well, there ya go, non closed TB is a vacuum leak.

The plate may not be perfectly centered. Loosen the screws that secure the throttle plate to the shaft, open and close the throttle body a couple of times, wiggle the plate if you have to.
Make sure the stop screw is not allowing the plate to gouge the aluminum housing of the throttle body.
Between plate centering and screw adjustment you should be able to get it to close all the way and seal correctly.


Also, you should have the correct SVT linkage on the shaft. If it is and you have the right throttle bracket and cable then you should be good to go.

[StealthyWeasel]

Well, there ya go, non closed TB is a vacuum leak.

The plate may not be perfectly centered. Loosen the screws that secure the throttle plate to the shaft, open and close the throttle body a couple of times, wiggle the plate if you have to.
Make sure the stop screw is not allowing the plate to gouge the aluminum housing of the throttle body.
Between plate centering and screw adjustment you should be able to get it to close all the way and seal correctly.


Also, you should have the correct SVT linkage on the shaft. If it is and you have the right throttle bracket and cable then you should be good to go.

and you are DEAD on. My dad figured that out when it came off the second time. The plate is not centered, the bottom scrapes and theres a gap on the top. unfortunately when it was assembled part of it was shaved so even if centered it'll never work. it does have an SVT linkage, and is now trash. Lets see what he does..

[warmonger]

You can order replacement TB plates online, some on Ebay. Get another 65mm plate or even another 65mm TB and put the two together.
I don't recommend knife edging the plates for just this reason. You can thin the shaft a little but even then why bother when you are giving yourself another 5mm over the SVT, and 12mm over your stock TB!
If that little bit of TB shaft is a restriction you need to take out of a 65mm then you have one helluva engine there.

[StealthyWeasel]

You can order replacement TB plates online, some on Ebay. Get another 65mm plate or even another 65mm TB and put the two together.
I don't recommend knife edging the plates for just this reason. You can thin the shaft a little but even then why bother when you are giving yourself another 5mm over the SVT, and 12mm over your stock TB!
If that little bit of TB shaft is a restriction you need to take out of a 65mm then you have one helluva engine there.

yep, thats why I didn't bother any of that. I'll check into getting just the plate- thanks.

[jrak123]

and you are DEAD on. My dad figured that out when it came off the second time. The plate is not centered, the bottom scrapes and theres a gap on the top. unfortunately when it was assembled part of it was shaved so even if centered it'll never work. it does have an SVT linkage, and is now trash. Lets see what he does..
What the hell did you shave? you are complaining that it doesn't work and it worked fine on my car for 2 full days, then you keep taking it apart and now you are trying to place blame on me for it not working. What did you shave? I never modified anything on the throttle plate and that is the one that the TB came with.

[StealthyWeasel]

im talking about on the cuts on the shaft.

Jason, don't give me the fifth degree on this one, I didn't attempt to modify it in any way. the TB DOES NOT WORK- I took a video of what the problem is the revs RISE and hold between shifts and only come down when I am stopped and the IAC can compensate. I did attempt to re-center the plate, but WITHOUT modifying anything. Nothing, doesn't work.. same problem.

I custom made a gasket like you said you would make, and that didn't help the problem. Sprayed carb cleaner to find leaks outside of the intake tract for external vaccuum leaks- none. Changed the TPS with a brand new SVT TPS - nothing. Wiring is good, because I had to put an SE TB (w/ SE TPS) /bracket on there now to drive my car while i figure this out (the SE TB works perfectly, BTW..)

Jason, lets keep this simple- You know I want the TB, so why would I lie? I simply put the TB on and it didn't work and can't work.. so you tell me, what do I do.



There is cuts on the SVT linkage shaft, its ruined. There IS gaps in the plate, where air gets past it and the area where it was low it scraped the bore and didn't close properly.
If I have to take a bunch of pictures to show everyone the problem, I hope you don't start saying that I did all this myself. Because I never modified the TB in any way.. the ONLY thing I did was remove the plate to attempt to center it and put locktite on the screws (which you didn't do).

[warmonger]

im talking about on the cuts on the shaft.

Jason, don't give me the fifth degree on this one, I didn't attempt to modify it in any way. the TB DOES NOT WORK- I took a video of what the problem is the revs RISE and hold between shifts and only come down when I am stopped and the IAC can compensate. I did attempt to re-center the plate, but WITHOUT modifying anything. Nothing, doesn't work.. same problem.

I custom made a gasket like you said you would make, and that didn't help the problem. Sprayed carb cleaner to find leaks outside of the intake tract for external vaccuum leaks- none. Changed the TPS with a brand new SVT TPS - nothing. Wiring is good, because I had to put an SE TB (w/ SE TPS) /bracket on there now to drive my car while i figure this out (the SE TB works perfectly, BTW..)

Jason, lets keep this simple- You know I want the TB, so why would I lie? I simply put the TB on and it didn't work and can't work.. so you tell me, what do I do.



There is cuts on the SVT linkage shaft, its ruined. There IS gaps in the plate, where air gets past it and the area where it was low it scraped the bore and didn't close properly.
If I have to take a bunch of pictures to show everyone the problem, I hope you don't start saying that I did all this myself. Because I never modified the TB in any way.. the ONLY thing I did was remove the plate to attempt to center it and put locktite on the screws (which you didn't do).

Something about this last statement from you just doesn't sound right.

From your initial description you had throttle hang. That is usually no big deal to fix. You probably developed some kind of vacuum leak during installation, possibly even the gasket.
However, going on what YOU said about everything else being checked I pointed out the TB plate could be a little off.
Now you are saying ther are cuts in the shaft and it's ruined.

Who in his right mind buys a thottlebody, then with all kinds of gaps and cuts in it (as you claim) just slaps it on there car and doesn't know where to look for issues?

My point is this. A TB is not like an internal engine or transmission part. You buy it, you look at it and if the fit and finish looks fine the darn thing works. If the fit and finish is not fine then you send it back or call immediately.
You don't look at it and say..."Oh boy those holes must be good for airflow" and just throw it on your car....unless you are ignorant of what a TB does and how it works.

So you either had to have foolishly NOT INSPECTED it beforehand and with all that work to install it you had to have been blind not to see that stuff;
Or don't know what you are looking for (then don't buy something like that)
Or you are now exaggerating it to get your money back because you could not figure out why you had throttle hang.

I feel really bad now that I may have put words into anyone's mouth. I've built many TBs without an issue but I know what the issues can be.

So maybe you just check your throttle plate alignment, clean everything up and reinstall it. Check all your gaskets and hoses so that you didn't inadvertently create a leak when you were installing it.....which many times does happen to even the most experienced people.
Most of all, explain why the "chain of events" in you post is not making sense... :confused:

[StealthyWeasel]

I have 100% "washed" my hands of this mess, privately noted my opinions on aspects of the subject, and solved the issue on my own. The end users of the throttle body know with 100% conviction that it can't work and never worked from inception. I will not speculate any because this is now a private matter between Jason and I. There is a way to explain the questions you raise, but again, im not getting into this. I am weary from fighting and can't keep repeating myself.

[StealthyWeasel]

I would like to kindly state that I have solved my problem, therefore no extra posts need to be made in this thread, as they are likely to start drama. If you would like to PM me, get my number & call me, whatever- please do. I'll go over this, in a civil manner as best I can.

[warmonger]

I would like to kindly state that I have solved my problem, therefore no extra posts need to be made in this thread, as they are likely to start drama. If you would like to PM me, get my number & call me, whatever- please do. I'll go over this, in a civil manner as best I can.

An open thread is a public topic so unless something causes it to be locked (and nothing has so far) then it will likely remain open for comment.
I don't want to PM you or anyone on the subject, especially if it is now taken to PMs between the interested parties. That is fine by me. On the other hand I don't like how my comments seem to have become "the reason" for the TB failure and I felt the need to point out my observations on this. If this is not the case, then even better! I'd prefer it that way.

[StealthyWeasel]

Ok, sounds fine.. makes sense. I don't think your speculation affected any of this.

[LostRacer]

When you installed it, did you uyouse the stock gasket or the one provided? I ask because when using the stock gasket there was a leak between the TB and the uim on mine which caused the exact symptoms your saying you had. Unfortunately when I pulled that gasket out and put in the one that came with my TB, I over tightened itcand cracked the base(65mm GT). Needless to say I put my SVT one back on with my original gasket and it ran fine. Just thought I'd put that out there in case.