Hole in my CD4E your input please!

[Xkontour98]

So I have a bit of a problem here. First the background info, I have a 98 Contour Se with just over 116K on it. I am very anal about maintance and have been running Mobile 1 full syn ATX fluid since about 50K. I have no complaints thus far with the ATX other than, well it's an ATX :) unil now.

Here's where the problem lies. I went to replace my stock front roll resister as I notice a while back, probably in the 90K's that I had a lot of engine play when it shifted. I was dynoing my car when I noticed this problem and well it's taken me a bit to address the issue, partly because it's not an easy fix.

Anyway, I ordered my poly RR and when I went to take out the stock one I noticed it wasnt attached to anything. After investigating a little further I come to find the stock RR had ripped a hole in the trans casing!:banghead:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/xkontour/PICT1052.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/xkontour/PICT1059.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/xkontour/PICT1058.jpg

I'm not too familiar with ATX's, so I haven't identified what part of the trans this is affecting, my guess would be the tq converter? Whatever the area is, there is obviously/thankfully no fluid.

The car drives fine and I have been making it a point not to drive it hard. When I have given it the gas I notice a whining sound at the shift point, it could be unrelated though.

So I am thinking my only options lie in replacing the casing, buying a different trans, MTX swap or just leaving it as is hoping it will hold out a couple more years until I can buy something newer (which for me is really not an option). Being that either way I need to take the trans out, I may as well pop a rebuilt one in. The current one, though well maintained, is up there in millage and for some nearly twice that in which many decide to fail.

I wanted to post to see if there are other options I am not considerring or if others tend to lean one way or another. I am concerned though having an exposed hole and driving, that something/fluid may fly in there and make things worse real quick! Especially with all the snow melting in this area and being lowered. I'm not sure how I would go about covering it though.

If/when I take the trans out I am very very tempted to just swap in a 3L and make it a "new" drivetrain all together. At this time I also intend on adding a trans cooler as I have been meaning to for years now.

Has this happened to anyone else before? I posted on CEG with little or no responses....

....help :shrug:

[DanG]

Holey hole, Batman!

Topik had the EXACT same thing happen to him. We attempted to have it TIG welded, but the resulting warping of the casing so bad that it wouldn't stop leaking. We eventually got a new trans.

The PROPER way to repair it is to completely disassemble the transaxle, have the casing cleaned and prepped, and pre-heated before welding it back together. Then re-assemble the whole thing.

Easier to get another trans.

[Xkontour98]

Any suggestions on how one might go about "patching" this hole so that nothing gets in there for the time being. I am worried that I'm going to go through a puddle and get water into the case and really have some problems!

[StealthyWeasel]

get that piece off that fits in there. Apply LOTS of JBweld on the perimeter of the metal, and attach into the hole. That should work, as long as you set it properly, and I'd say dont return the roll resistor onto it, because the JBweld probably can't hold that much stress.

[Topik]

man that does look familiar. :rofl:

[azbobbybooshay10]

PM whitecougar, he has a CD4E for sale with 44k miles on it.

[Topik]

You might want to check the rear roll resistor because usually this situation only happens when both the front and rear roll resistor have failed and hard driving has occured after. Like dan said, our welder(before we both leanred to weld) welded the case but it was never prepped correctly due to time constraints and the weld actually warped the case. I just ended up going to a local junkyard and picking up a remanned CD4E for three digits. Worked out for me.

[Xkontour98]

You might want to check the rear roll resistor because usually this situation only happens when both the front and rear roll resistor have failed and hard driving has occured after. Like dan said, our welder(before we both leanred to weld) welded the case but it was never prepped correctly due to time constraints and the weld actually warped the case. I just ended up going to a local junkyard and picking up a remanned CD4E for three digits. Worked out for me.

I know a guy that has a rebuilt CD4E that he wants to sell, though he is the person that rebuilt it. However I'm not sure it's the right one that will match my year/engine.

The CD4E w/44K probaboly won't fit my 98 Contour, as I think the harnesses are different. With 44K on it, who knows how reliable it will really be anyway.

I will have to check the rear RR and see if it's shot as well. How would you suggest "testing" it?


I'll have to check out the piece and see if it is JB weldable.

Thanks for all the great input. Keep it coming!

[Topik]

Best bet is to rock the motor with a pry bar while watching the rear mount with a flashlight or it could already be bad enough thats not necessary.

The different cd4e for the duratec is mechanical VSS and non mechanical. They changed after 99 but when you look up transaxles for our car, they list it as 1999s after august 1999. Best bet in that case is to get a picture of the VSS on the trans before you buy it.

[Topik]

Im sure that piece JB welded should hold for the time being as a Patch and not actually hook the mount back up.

[Xkontour98]

Alright we will see how is goes. Last night I JB welded the piece off the mount, back onto the trans case. I wasn't able to access all sides of the piece, so I concentrated on a section that has the best bet for a solid hold. I was concerned that the JB weld was going to seep into the cracks and attach to the moving parts, but I lucked out. Hopefully this will hold out long enough for me to come up with alternative options. Next I'm looking at rear RR replacement. Thanks for all the suggestions. Ill try and get a pic later to post. I was only able to let it cure for about 10 hours and that was in the mid teens for temp......crossing my fingers! :shrug:

[Topik]

Should hold. Yeah I mean I was in your situation so I know how you feel. cd4e's can be had cheap IF you are patience and do countless hours searching. Luckily I scored a remanned one local for 3 digits. Had the car back up less than 4 hours the next day when we started to work on it. Rear roll resistor is a PITA but luckily since you have the front already disconnected permanently, you can swing the engine for room. I took the extra measure and filled my new rear motor mount with polyurethane but that was to make sure I do not have to touch that mount ever again. Good luck man and hopefully all pans out.

[Xkontour98]

Should hold. Yeah I mean I was in your situation so I know how you feel. cd4e's can be had cheap IF you are patience and do countless hours searching. Luckily I scored a remanned one local for 3 digits. Had the car back up less than 4 hours the next day when we started to work on it. Rear roll resistor is a PITA but luckily since you have the front already disconnected permanently, you can swing the engine for room. I took the extra measure and filled my new rear motor mount with polyurethane but that was to make sure I do not have to touch that mount ever again. Good luck man and hopefully all pans out.

Only took you 4hours???? That's insane! I an thinking of doing a 3L while the engine is out. May as well if I'm going to spend the $$ on the ATX, and then drive it anotehr 100K.

[Topik]

Yeah we have done alot of pulls and installs so we are used to it by now. A 3l would be an awesome upgrade but remember the cd4e is not that strong factory so some minor mods would be nice to protect it. Trans cooler, upgraded valve body, and shift kit possibly. I do know a few guys running 3l ATX's on stock trans though and are still holding up.

[Xkontour98]

Yeah we have done alot of pulls and installs so we are used to it by now. A 3l would be an awesome upgrade but remember the cd4e is not that strong factory so some minor mods would be nice to protect it. Trans cooler, upgraded valve body, and shift kit possibly. I do know a few guys running 3l ATX's on stock trans though and are still holding up.


I plan on upgrading those parfts also. Are the older cd4e's weaker than the newer ones or something? Escapes use a cd4e with the same 3L i would be putting in......

[Topik]

cd4es before 99 are no comprende with the cougars from what I understand. 1999 cd4es have a mechanical VSS, late 99 cd4es and up do not have that. From what I understand they are all equally sh1tty though.

[super_coug]

same thing happened to my tranny being driving it like that for about 4 months no problem. It just shift hard from 1st to 2nd, if I force it(very rarely). just saving up for a 3l upgrade and a new tranny.

[Xkontour98]

same thing happened to my tranny being driving it like that for about 4 months no problem. It just shift hard from 1st to 2nd, if I force it(very rarely). just saving up for a 3l upgrade and a new tranny.

Yeah, unfortunately it isn't all that uncommon. I am going to replace the other two tranny mounts for the time being and then pick up a 3L and at least a new trans casing and possibly attempt to swap the case/trans and upgrade in the process.

Is there someone on these forums that rebuilds the CD4E's? I would be interested in buying a new casing and having my current one rebuilt with the the sonnax valves.......

[azbobbybooshay10]

cd4es before 99 are no comprende with the cougars from what I understand. 1999 cd4es have a mechanical VSS, late 99 cd4es and up do not have that. From what I understand they are all equally sh1tty though.

So the 2000 ATX that Royce has won't work?

[Xkontour98]

So the 2000 ATX that Royce has won't work?

Not looking like it. That's ATX number 2 that won't work! :banghead:

[Topik]

If he is pre mid 99 a 2000 will not work. All about the VSS basically. Not hard to see when under the car since the subframe has a cutout for where the VSS sits and if its not mechanical VSS, it will not be there when taking a peeky peek.

I would rebuild your cd4e since I love transmission work but my resources have been limited due to certain circumstances so the person I would recommend is Trevor a.k.a. fast cougar. He rebuilt Sami's cd4e and has the rotunda kit and manual to do it. Just be patient since hes a busy man thats all.

[Aneubis]

From the pictures, it's showing that the flywheel and torque converter are exposed. Seals on the crank should protect the motor, and the fluid in the torque converter is sealed internally, so immediate concern should be to keep solid debris out of it. The transmission should be safe with it covered...but obviously the mount is a no-go...and there's no way the JB weld will hold it well enough for much of any pressure. Depending on the hole and the separated chunk of casing, I'd question whether to trust JB weld alone to keep it from falling inward with heat towards the torque converter. If it hasn't been replaced yet, I'd suggest regular inspections and possibly a form of support to keep the piece from being able to slip at all into the tranny case.

[gamiller]

if this isn't yet resolved to your satisfaction, call up these guys (http://www.worldwidetransmissions.com) and see if they have new CD4Es in stock.

[Xkontour98]

Thanks, I didn't see any CD4E's on there though.

Update, the JB weld is holding strong and has been driving well. Definitely taking an easy on it. Don't know how much time I have left......

[StealthyWeasel]

oh look, you used my suggested method. cool ;)

By the way, I have a CD4E for sale and have no problem shipping it. Works fine as far as I know :shrug: has the old style VSS and came out of a 99.