View Full Version : Why so slow? 17.6 - 17.8
I have a 2000 Automatic Cougar, v6. The only added weight is from the Roush kit and 18" wheels, that shouldn't really matter THAT much. The thing that puzzles me is this:
I have the SVT UIM, TB, LIM, Short Ram Intake, Flowmaster Exhaust, Eibach Springs, and Roush 21mm Sway Bar (it doesn't help racing, but it's there and it's 'performance' so I am simply listing it.)
Also, I have a Fiberglass hood and fenders. There is some weight savings there.
My problem here is why am I slower than when I was stock? I have no idea why the hell this would be. I ran 3 years ago stock with stock everything except wheels and ran consistent 17.1.
My Reaction time is very good, or at least I am told. I consistantly run a 0.05 or 0.07 or so. That's not an issue.
I just have no idea why I got slower. :( Anyone have any ideas as to why this could be?
Also, I'll do it for everyone in advance, "Automatic" lol. It's automatic, but it shouldn't get SLOWER with engine modification.
Yofavcracka
08-24-2006, 12:20 AM
having bigger rims and smaller profile tires is harder for your engine to turn them than stock
having bigger rims and smaller profile tires is harder for your engine to turn them than stock
Yeah, that is something, but I still can't see how the fiberglass hood, fenders, and SVT mods wouldn't at least make it even. I can't see how bigger wheels add almost a full second to a quarter mile time even with some pretty decent modifications.
BigBalledOX
08-24-2006, 12:24 AM
Your reaction time has no bearing on your ET.
How much heavier are your new wheels than stock? Increasing rotational mass will have a DRASTIC effect on the car.
montyburns23
08-24-2006, 12:59 AM
I bet your precats are clogged... thats what happened to my atx...
Tygerr
08-24-2006, 05:06 AM
Possibly the IMRC. Like BBox said, reaction time has nothing to do with your time.
Rims have a huge differance on the way your car drives. I bet those rims kill the car.
Alright, next time I will run my stock 16" up front, I can keep the back what they are I assume.
I don't know about the IMRC being jacked, the car feels fine, is there someway I can definately tell though?
Also, pre-cats, can I simply replace them? I don't really believe in the gains of gutting them, seems to be a waste of time. Then again, replacing is probably just as hard as gutting them and it'll yield the same result so...
I'll go back to US-41 next week and see how the front stock 16" do for me. I just figured even for an ATX I should be doing better. :)
BigBalledOX
08-24-2006, 11:24 AM
Alright, next time I will run my stock 16" up front, I can keep the back what they are I assume.
I don't know about the IMRC being jacked, the car feels fine, is there someway I can definately tell though?
Also, pre-cats, can I simply replace them? I don't really believe in the gains of gutting them, seems to be a waste of time.
I'll go back to US-41 next week and see how the front stock 16" do for me. If it doesn't drastically improve I know that's not my problem.
You would notice if your IMRC is failing, the car will bog badly at 3500-4000 RPM's and feel lame as ****.
Ummm . . . why would you buy new pre-cats and replace them . . . when you could just gut your current pre-cats instead? That doesn't make any sense if you ask me, even if you "don't believe" there is any performance benefit.
No. Do not run the 18's in the rear and the 16's up front. You're still increasing rotational mass. You want to keep that to a minimum. The rule of thumb is, one pound of rotational mass is worth about four pounds of static mass. In other words, if your wheels are one pound lighter at each corner, its the equivalent of removing 16 pounds from the car.
bensenvill
08-24-2006, 01:06 PM
well I guess the definitive way to tell is to dyno it [we still have to organize that IL dyno day thing].
it could be alot of things, maybe try cleaning out your UIM, running some fuel injector cleaner [or replacing your fuel filter].
I've gotten as low as 16.44 in my atx, and performance wise, you have alot more installed than me.
Yeah, I'm going to try this all. I'll go to the Dyno day too.
I'll run my 16" wheels and if it's what really slows the car down I think I'll have to pick up some 15" centerlines. Those are only 14 pounds a wheel. :)
gyger
08-28-2006, 12:11 AM
I run 14.8 with my 18's and when I put my 15's on two years
ago and ran I ran the same time. I do believe that the rims and tires
make a difference I just don't think it's that much to effect his times
like this. It would help if you could tell us what your 60', 1/8 mile and trap
speeds/times were.
GrandMasterKhan
08-28-2006, 11:19 PM
I would be willing to bet its the IMRC. That is the #1 power killer on our cars.
Hell even some of the most knowledgeable memebers have been smitten by its failure to open.
My 60' averages out to 2.55 overall, consistant. This is over ten runs.
My trap speed is a consistent 77mph.
My 1/8 time is 11.5 seconds.
All these again are over 10 runs. Maybe it could be the IMRC. I have no idea, the car has no balls besides passing gear.
92blackegmtx
08-29-2006, 10:15 PM
Maybe ur engine was pulling timing because it was running a little hot.
Maybe ur engine was pulling timing because it was running a little hot.
This could be a possibility. I don't have a CAI, only a short ram. I drove 120 miles South to get there in 90 degree weather. (US-41 Dragstrip for those familiar in Morocco Indiana. I came from Joliet, Illinois (Route 66 Raceway Dragstrip here.))
rufus
08-29-2006, 11:48 PM
that sounds like your problem right there the heat and heat soak from your short ram
It probably has to be heat. I went again yesterday and was running almost a 17.0, but again, it was still hot out and I had just driven that 100+ miles. I think I need a CAI.
Also, after each run I'd get slower and slower, I'm assuming the engine is getting hotter and hotter.
B3NN3TT
09-07-2006, 12:10 PM
Nah; the engine only gets up to about 225° and then the fans pull it back down. I ran my fastest time after like 3 straight runs; the engine could not have been hotter. Of course I ran it with a CAI; but it was still almost 100° outside, and high noon.
Do you have a tranny cooler?
GrandMasterKhan
09-07-2006, 11:17 PM
the engine will pull timing based on engine coolant temps and Intake air temps.
if the engine bay temp is very high then it will pull timing also. That is why CAIs are very helpful. Since engine bay temps do not affect the IAT temps nearly as much as with a shortram.
BlackBetty
09-14-2006, 03:59 AM
I read a little tip on keeping the engine cool between runs, get a block of ice (you can buy at the grocery store) and put in on my UIM and just let that manifold cool down, they said it'll run a lot better if that UIM is cold.
bensenvill
09-15-2006, 06:39 PM
I read a little tip on keeping the engine cool between runs, get a block of ice (you can buy at the grocery store) and put in on my UIM and just let that manifold cool down, they said it'll run a lot better if that UIM is cold.
its true, but I wouldnt waste your time. Its a good way of removing the heat from a previous run, but I can guarantee you that the temps of the UIM are going to be just as hot after you sit in the staging lane for 20 minutes idling. If you really want to cut intake temps, get your UIM jet-hot coated.
[I'm getting ready to send my whole intake system, LIM, UIM, TB, and everything on out, out for coating. it'll be complete overkill but I'm curious to see what differences it can possibly make]
BigBalledOX
09-16-2006, 12:45 PM
its true, but I wouldnt waste your time. Its a good way of removing the heat from a previous run, but I can guarantee you that the temps of the UIM are going to be just as hot after you sit in the staging lane for 20 minutes idling. If you really want to cut intake temps, get your UIM jet-hot coated.
[I'm getting ready to send my whole intake system, LIM, UIM, TB, and everything on out, out for coating. it'll be complete overkill but I'm curious to see what differences it can possibly make]
:crazy: I think you've officially passed me in the level of insanity to which you are willing to take your car.
bensenvill
09-16-2006, 04:44 PM
:crazy: I think you've officially passed me in the level of insanity to which you are willing to take your car.
I dont compare to your upcoming overall insanity... but I will glady take the award for insanity to the level of detail.
think of it this way... have you ever driven your car around for 20 minutes, popped the hood and put your hand on the UIM, its scalding hot. I just want to keep the air temps as low as possible until they enter the actual heads.
I've also gone through and anally resculpted the UIM in an effort [to save a pound and] to better be able to push air around and under it for cooling... In its current configuration its purely for looks but if I can work out some discrete venting with the hood, I think it can become very functional.
In the cars current stock form, gains will be minimal at best but I think all this work will scale very nicely when I get around to putting in the new engine.
BigBalledOX
09-16-2006, 04:49 PM
I just like to think of myself as having the most completely modded Cougar on NECO. Lots of people can boast of having bits and pieces of what I do, but almost literally the only remaining stock parts on the car are the frame, body, wiring and interior, none of which is exactly a hotbed of performance modding.