Best Upgrade Ever: 3L

[Redlineracer12]

Originally Posted by jeromio

No, smart-ass, I did not. And yes, smart-ass, you were totally right. The issue turned out to be fouled plugs. I am the stupid-ass. Motor only had 7K miles - so I made the ASSumption that plugs should be fine. They were toast. So that problem is solved.

And yes, I am the hijacker. But this thread is now my life. That diagram you found is awesome. Unfortunately for me, it validates that all my lines are routed correctly. I too seem to have a vac leak. I get a sort of "stuck throttle" phenomenon now. But it only happens when I drive the car. Stopped, I can tweak the throttle over and over and it behaves fine. If I drive it, let the clutch out, the revs climb to like 3K. I can load the engine and get the revs to come down a bit (~2K). But if I stop the car and try to look under the hood, it drops back to idle (which is oddly high at around 1100-1200rpm). I can drive (say 35mph), then let out clutch and coast along and it seems stuck at 3K - like it's at part throttle, even though it's at no throttle. Just stays that way for as long as I care to coast. But if the car stops for more than 30-40sec, it drops down. I put an extra spring on the throttle. I disconnected EGR. I've sprayed carb cleaner all over this sucker and can't find a leak. Pulled the intake several times and the gaskets just have to be good and seated (correct torque and sequence by FSM). I am so close, yet this stupid thing is still F'd...

TP sensor?

[jeromio]

Originally Posted by Redlineracer12

TP sensor?

That's a good point. So maybe the sensor is sticking and the ECM adds extra fuel (despite the lack of flow thru MAF?). It's a possibility. I'll do the diags on that sensor. I also have an ECT, but I need to learn how to use it for data logging. That should give me some more info.

[gamiller]

Jeromio, what you're describing sounds like the same thing experienced by the rest of us, including FastCougar and StealthyWeasel. If your TB is closing and your TPS and IACV are good, and you have no vacuum leaks, then you've done all you can mechanically. It's time to tweak the tune.

[jaged]

mine did that slightly due to the optimized tb and now that i have the 05 intake its doing it a bit more. time for a tweak

[jeromio]

Looks like vac leak may have been a factor. I re-did the EGR gaskets and the situation improved. It still floats a bit too long after you let off the throttle, but I suppose that could be attributed to stock SVT tune on the 3L. I also did an experiment and unhooked one of the vac lines off the intake - motor just doesn't really run at all. It tries to die, then I guess the pcm bumps the Idle valve and it jumps up to 3K, then back down - over and over. If I induce a slight "leak" by connecting a plug with a tiny slice in it, it's very similar, just not as dramatic. I can't explain why my issue was unique to driving vs. sitting still. But now it's fine, so, who cares. Just need to get my 3L tune sorted out so I can get rid of this "throttle decay" issue.

Now that I'm able to drive the car around, I am noticing that the motor mount is toast. It seemed fine before the swap, but now the motor noticeably lurches. I ordered an energy poly mount.

[gamiller]

Glad to hear your car is running better, Jeromio. I too fixed a couple of leaks:

After moving my stuff into storage and vacating my apartment, I was able to dedicate an entire day to wrenching on the car. The plan was to replace the four 38 #/hr injectors I received with my turbo kit with 42 #/hr injectors so that I would have six injectors with the same flow rate. I was also hoping that the vacuum leak would get fixed in the process.

The biggest source of vacuum leak turned out to be a loose clamp that had allowed the MAF to separate from the turbo intake pipe, so all the air entering the engine was un-metered! Another source of vacuum leak turned out to be the PCV hose, which had melted where it rested against the EGR tube, forming a hole the size of my thumb. The final leak source found was a DPFE hose that had popped off the EGR tube.

After reassembling the fuel and intake manifolds and fixing the above leaks, the car found idle at 800 RPM. She was well-mannered traveling around the block. There was no throttle surge or hang to speak of, so I took her up the highway 15 miles to my friend's house.

I wish I could say I was good to go, but by the time I pulled into my friend's neighborhood, the car was having trouble finding idle. At a stop sign, it started hunting for idle between 1500 and 500 RPM. Then it stalled out. I started it, it revved and then stalled again. Every damn time I started the car it would stall out. Maybe the fuel trim levels had been tweaked by the PCM. I reset the PCM by pulling the battery terminal for five minutes, but when I started the car again, it stalled again. I decided I was not going to abandon my car, so I started it one more time and gave it enough gas to keep the revs above 1000. Looks like my holiday will include testing for more leaks and possibly testing sensors such as the IACV.

Lastly, I am still getting DTCs Bank1 Sys Too Rich and Bank2 Sys Too Rich. Should I still get these with my performance tune?

[cpapashley]

Originally Posted by gamiller

Glad to hear your car is running better, Jeromio. I too fixed a couple of leaks:

After moving my stuff into storage and vacating my apartment, I was able to dedicate an entire day to wrenching on the car. The plan was to replace the four 38 #/hr injectors I received with my turbo kit with 42 #/hr injectors so that I would have six injectors with the same flow rate. I was also hoping that the vacuum leak would get fixed in the process.

The biggest source of vacuum leak turned out to be a loose clamp that had allowed the MAF to separate from the turbo intake pipe, so all the air entering the engine was un-metered! Another source of vacuum leak turned out to be the PCV hose, which had melted where it rested against the EGR tube, forming a hole the size of my thumb. The final leak source found was a DPFE hose that had popped off the EGR tube.

After reassembling the fuel and intake manifolds and fixing the above leaks, the car found idle at 800 RPM. She was well-mannered traveling around the block. There was no throttle surge or hang to speak of, so I took her up the highway 15 miles to my friend's house.

I wish I could say I was good to go, but by the time I pulled into my friend's neighborhood, the car was having trouble finding idle. At a stop sign, it started hunting for idle between 1500 and 500 RPM. Then it stalled out. I started it, it revved and then stalled again. Every damn time I started the car it would stall out. Maybe the fuel trim levels had been tweaked by the PCM. I reset the PCM by pulling the battery terminal for five minutes, but when I started the car again, it stalled again. I decided I was not going to abandon my car, so I started it one more time and gave it enough gas to keep the revs above 1000. Looks like my holiday will include testing for more leaks and possibly testing sensors such as the IACV.

Lastly, I am still getting DTCs Bank1 Sys Too Rich and Bank2 Sys Too Rich. Should I still get these with my performance tune?

Just something I wanted to pass on about these 3.0l engines and that pcv hose just make sure you get the newer version of it (the pcv hose) as the positioning and subsequent breakdown of the tube is very common in the 3.0l duratec on our MPV forum.

If you want any more info on that let me know.

[warmonger]

Originally Posted by gamiller

Glad to hear your car is running better, Jeromio. I too fixed a couple of leaks:

After moving my stuff into storage and vacating my apartment, I was able to dedicate an entire day to wrenching on the car. The plan was to replace the four 38 #/hr injectors I received with my turbo kit with 42 #/hr injectors so that I would have six injectors with the same flow rate. I was also hoping that the vacuum leak would get fixed in the process.

The biggest source of vacuum leak turned out to be a loose clamp that had allowed the MAF to separate from the turbo intake pipe, so all the air entering the engine was un-metered! Another source of vacuum leak turned out to be the PCV hose, which had melted where it rested against the EGR tube, forming a hole the size of my thumb. The final leak source found was a DPFE hose that had popped off the EGR tube.

After reassembling the fuel and intake manifolds and fixing the above leaks, the car found idle at 800 RPM. She was well-mannered traveling around the block. There was no throttle surge or hang to speak of, so I took her up the highway 15 miles to my friend's house.

I wish I could say I was good to go, but by the time I pulled into my friend's neighborhood, the car was having trouble finding idle. At a stop sign, it started hunting for idle between 1500 and 500 RPM. Then it stalled out. I started it, it revved and then stalled again. Every damn time I started the car it would stall out. Maybe the fuel trim levels had been tweaked by the PCM. I reset the PCM by pulling the battery terminal for five minutes, but when I started the car again, it stalled again. I decided I was not going to abandon my car, so I started it one more time and gave it enough gas to keep the revs above 1000. Looks like my holiday will include testing for more leaks and possibly testing sensors such as the IACV.

Lastly, I am still getting DTCs Bank1 Sys Too Rich and Bank2 Sys Too Rich. Should I still get these with my performance tune?

Check your egr lines one more time at the DPFE sensor to see if one blew off again. It is unlikely that once you got your leaks fixed and the car idled correctly that the tune was then an issue later on when you got to your friends house.
I understand your concerns but it is impossible to really tune it out right if we keep having issues pop up.
A datalog of the fuel trims, load, rpm, and all the other standard things I ask for will help tremendously.

[warmonger]

Originally Posted by gamiller

Jeromio, what you're describing sounds like the same thing experienced by the rest of us, including FastCougar and StealthyWeasel. If your TB is closing and your TPS and IACV are good, and you have no vacuum leaks, then you've done all you can mechanically. It's time to tweak the tune.

I read this the other day and forgot to respond. The primary cause of this type of issue is unmetered air.


I meant to tell you to look at all your clamps AFTER the turbo now because if you are loosing air through some source like the PCV line then you will run very rich.
If you have a pcv vent line open or clamp loose then as you cruise down the road you will be dumping metered air out the lines especially with the turbo spinning a bit of positive pressure on the system. This will cause a rich condition on the fuel trims and may be responsible for the codes.
At idle you'll be pulling in unmetered air and causing higher idle issues or surging and perhaps leaner fuel trims.

[gamiller]

Originally Posted by cpapashley

Just something I wanted to pass on about these 3.0l engines and that pcv hose. just make sure you get the newer version of it (the pcv hose) as the positioning and subsequent breakdown of the tube is very common in the 3.0l duratec on our MPV forum.

According to the thread on the MPV forum, the PCV hoses that failed were rubber or had rubber fittings. My PCV hose is plastic with plastic ends, so I don't think the same issue applies to me. Thanks anyway for being on the lookout!